Video 6 - On Tumlinsons Trail : The Peralta Stone Maps

[Azquester]

Miniature Pig Skin Maps also were popular. I saw one down at Tumacacori in Dan DaSarno's collection.
A real Spanish Treasure Map!

 

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[sgtfda]

See! Plus if things get bad you can eat them

 

[RG1976]

The last page of the Travis Tumlinson Manuscript.

 

[Las Vegas Bob]

See! Plus if things get bad you can eat them

Cracklins yum.....

 

[Las Vegas Bob]

Miniature Pig Skin Maps also were popular. I saw one down at Tumacacori in Dan DaSarno's collection.
A real Spanish Treasure Map!

Where did they find the Miniature Pigs to make the miniature maps?

 

[Las Vegas Bob]

The last page of the Travis Tumlinson Manuscript.

WOW either he really believed his own yarn or he was a very good story teller, it's hard to discern. Evil spirits, thunder gods, that of the long dead, that is quite and ending to an interesting tale.

Thanks for posting it.

 

[releventchair]

Deep retrospection does not always lead to satisfaction.

 

[Las Vegas Bob]

Deep retrospection does not always lead to satisfaction.

Happens to me all the time....

 

[sgtfda]

Speak of the devil. A Tumlinson heirloom posted. Wonder what else is floating around.

 

[RG1976]

Speak of the devil. A Tumlinson heirloom posted. Wonder what else is floating around.

Travis sure did believe in the spirit of the Apache Gods. According to Bair there was no horse / witch stone - but instead a stone with an Indian.

It's all coming together.

 

[somehiker]

Wayne
Travis was behind all this and the idea did not pop up from nowhere. They were searching for something in the eastern Superstitions. What did Peg Leg have stashed? A very interesting history with that family.
If I needed to make a map during that time period leather is perfect. Light to carry and holds up to wear and tear. Not like there was a office max around the corner. Plus there is a history of leather maps for the area. As you suspect there could be hidden artifacts the public is not aware of. Perhaps some Tumlinson family heirlooms.

Hi Frank:

Just got back in and doing some catching up.

You know more than almost anyone about what I have been working with and why, and I agree.
That despite all of the other stories floating around the edges, it always comes back to Travis himself. But if by "eastern " you mean the "pit mine/Iron Mountain area, I don't think that has anything to do with either TT or the stones. But he definitely DID know something he wasn't willing to share with Garman or it seems, anyone else. Could there have been an old map on leather amongst the Spanish documents that Pegleg had ? I'd say that's possible.
Is there any mention of Pegleg having spent time in the Eastern Sups. or Whitlow Canyon area ?

Regards:Wayne

 

[somehiker]

The last page of the Travis Tumlinson Manuscript.

Sounds like he had some regrets about the time he had spent searching for answers in those mountains, but like the rest of us thoroughly enjoyed the experience.
Also that he felt cheated or opposed by the "spirits of the thunder gods", which kept him from the gold he believed was there.
Doesn't sound like he made the stones himself IMHO.

 

[somehiker]

Travis sure did believe in the spirit of the Apache Gods. According to Bair there was no horse / witch stone - but instead a stone with an Indian.

It's all coming together.

According to Bob Schultz, it was he and Travis who found the Indian Head stone somewhere north of the Columbia River.
Both Bair and Schultz were friends of Travis's from the Hood River area. I think Bair might have seen that stone while it was still at Travis' home, and before he or Aileen took it down to Texas, although he doesn't actually say so.

From Gary's website:

View attachment Indian Head Stone.bmp

Here is the story as told by Bob Bair.

Also from Gary's website:

View attachment Indian Head stone B.bmp

In context, both Schultz and Bair have been tracked down and are being questioned by Richard Peck's representatives.
Schultz said he had seen the H/P stone and described it. Bair said he hadn't seen it, but also knew that Travis had found a stone with an Indian Head on it.
Both described the same stone, with "lips sealed", but Bair also said that his wife had read part of Travis' manuscript.
It doesn't sound like either of them thought the Indian Head stone was related to the stone maps.

 

[RG1976]

According to Bob Schultz, it was he and Travis who found the Indian Head stone somewhere north of the Columbia River.
Both Bair and Schultz were friends of Travis's from the Hood River area. I think Bair might have seen that stone while it was still at Travis' home, and before he or Aileen took it down to Texas, although he doesn't actually say so.

From Gary's website:

View attachment 1178768

Here is the story as told by Bob Bair.

Also from Gary's website:

View attachment 1178780

In context, both Schultz and Bair have been tracked down and are being questioned by Richard Peck's representatives.
Schultz said he had seen the H/P stone and described it. Bair said he hadn't seen it, but also knew that Travis had found a stone with an Indian Head on it.
Both described the same stone, with "lips sealed", but Bair also said that his wife had read part of Travis' manuscript.
It doesn't sound like either of them thought the Indian Head stone was related to the stone maps.

Hopefully one day the manuscript can be printed for public view. With this story of the stone maps everything is heresay - you can cherry pick whatever you'd like to believe in....pro or con.

Money and friendships will always align - I would read Schultz comments as Travis being paranoid and trying to throw people off his tracks - so they also don't go to the superstitions to look for other possible "stone maps."

We do have a report, from the same friendship group, stating Travis altered the heart stone to throw off would be thieves. Makes perfect sense, to me, why he would tell Mr. Schultz to fabricate a story saying he found the Indian Head map in Oregon.

If - and thats a big IF - we want to believe in these accounts by his friends - they incriminate Travis as having a hand in altering at least the heart stone.

Once we know that Travis had a desire to deceive / alter the maps - then from that point forward, to me, he is not to be trusted. It also shows he can carve a bunch of zero's and have led would be stone mapper's to believe it represented a monetary value of the "treasure".

I don't like being lied to - but perhaps others don't mind as much.

 

[KXMember]

Maybe they realized that the treasures were much bigger than expected.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Las Vegas Bob, ya mean

 

[cw0909]

maybe a mexican connection with the TUMLINSON name, not sure if that would
lead to treasure or treasure maps, interesting tidbit though

In April 1825 empresario Green DeWitt was given permission by the Government of Mexico to settle 400 families between the Guadalupe and Lavaca Rivers. Most pioneers settled at the mouth of the Lavaca or established farms along the banks of the Guadalupe River.According to research, ARTHUR BURNS and family established the first home in the county on Irish Creek. This area was latter called Irish Creek Settlement. It is documented that colonists who held grants in the county by 1827 were: BYRD LOCKHART, JOSE ANTONIO VALDEZ, GEORGE W. DAVIS, VALENTINE BENNETT, CHURCHILL FULSHEAR, JOSEPH D. CLEMENTS, JOHN JAMES TUMLINSON, and GREEN DEWITT.
DeWitt County History

​

several TUMLINSON with land grants
http://files.usgwarchives.net/tx/dewitt/land/dewitt.txt

 

[somehiker]

Hopefully one day the manuscript can be printed for public view. With this story of the stone maps everything is heresay - you can cherry pick whatever you'd like to believe in....pro or con.

Money and friendships will always align - I would read Schultz comments as Travis being paranoid and trying to throw people off his tracks - so they also don't go to the superstitions to look for other possible "stone maps."

We do have a report, from the same friendship group, stating Travis altered the heart stone to throw off would be thieves. Makes perfect sense, to me, why he would tell Mr. Schultz to fabricate a story saying he found the Indian Head map in Oregon.

If - and thats a big IF - we want to believe in these accounts by his friends - they incriminate Travis as having a hand in altering at least the heart stone.

Once we know that Travis had a desire to deceive / alter the maps - then from that point forward, to me, he is not to be trusted. It also shows he can carve a bunch of zero's and have led would be stone mapper's to believe it represented a monetary value of the "treasure".

I don't like being lied to - but perhaps others don't mind as much.

Yes, I hope that it is shared at some point....the sooner the better.
Gary has very graciously answered some of my questions on another site, so I know a bit more about the manuscript now.

While I consider the Peck group as more of a "hostile takeover" organization, rather than a "friendship group", I'm still willing to take the evidence they gathered at face value. I don't think we can make any assumptions that one is lying and the other is not, simply because Travis worried about others taking the stones from him.

Bair said that Travis carved the zeros on the back of the heart stone. Although Bair also told him about the Indian Head stone, he wouldn't or couldn't tell them where it was found or whether it was linked to the stone maps....why not? He also said he hadn't seen any stone with a horse. Had he been coached to say this by Travis?
Schultz was able to describe all of the stones, but said there were seven zeros "cyphers", not six. So was he also coached as to what to say if asked ?

We simply do not know the answers to these questions, and we can choose to believe or disbelieve all or any of it. But one thing we know for sure is that the stones we see in the museum, as used from Mitchell on, do not include anything with an Indian head.

E.Love mentions the 5th stone and says Peck has a drawing of it.....does Greg have that drawing in his collection?

Regards:SH.

 

[RG1976]

Yes, I hope that it is shared at some point....the sooner the better.
Gary has very graciously answered some of my questions on another site, so I know a bit more about the manuscript now.

While I consider the Peck group as more of a "hostile takeover" organization, rather than a "friendship group", I'm still willing to take the evidence they gathered at face value. I don't think we can make any assumptions that one is lying and the other is not, simply because Travis worried about others taking the stones from him.

Bair said that Travis carved the zeros on the back of the heart stone. Although Bair also told him about the Indian Head stone, he wouldn't or couldn't tell them where it was found or whether it was linked to the stone maps....why not? He also said he hadn't seen any stone with a horse. Had he been coached to say this by Travis?
Schultz was able to describe all of the stones, but said there were seven zeros "cyphers", not six. So was he also coached as to what to say if asked ?

We simply do not know the answers to these questions, and we can choose to believe or disbelieve all or any of it. But one thing we know for sure is that the stones we see in the museum, as used from Mitchell on, do not include anything with an Indian head.

E.Love mentions the 5th stone and says Peck has a drawing of it.....does Greg have that drawing in his collection?

Regards:SH.

Thanks for keeping the legend alive, Wayne! There aren't many that have put so much faith into these rocks like you have!

 

[DiggerGal]

Yes, I hope that it is shared at some point....the sooner the better.
Gary has very graciously answered some of my questions on another site, so I know a bit more about the manuscript now.

While I consider the Peck group as more of a "hostile takeover" organization, rather than a "friendship group", I'm still willing to take the evidence they gathered at face value. I don't think we can make any assumptions that one is lying and the other is not, simply because Travis worried about others taking the stones from him.

Bair said that Travis carved the zeros on the back of the heart stone. Although Bair also told him about the Indian Head stone, he wouldn't or couldn't tell them where it was found or whether it was linked to the stone maps....why not? He also said he hadn't seen any stone with a horse. Had he been coached to say this by Travis?
Schultz was able to describe all of the stones, but said there were seven zeros "cyphers", not six. So was he also coached as to what to say if asked ?

We simply do not know the answers to these questions, and we can choose to believe or disbelieve all or any of it. But one thing we know for sure is that the stones we see in the museum, as used from Mitchell on, do not include anything with an Indian head.

E.Love mentions the 5th stone and says Peck has a drawing of it.....does Greg have that drawing in his collection?

Regards:SH.

SH,

I don't think it is as convoluted as TT "coached" someone to lie. 7 zeros, 6 zeros, whatever zeros, the POINT is; that Travis himself made the carvings. Travis "defaced" something with intent.
Travis lied. You can coach another person all you want, but is they feel they are breaching their own integrity or values, they will not keep the charade going. For what reason would they keep the lie going? The guy is dead! A bigger question to
Ask of these supposed "coached" people that knew about the maps; why did they stop searching? How many trips to the Sup's did they make AFTER Travis died?
If the answer is None? Were they really coached to lie? Or, more probable is, they were telling the truth. There was no Horse/witch map, Travis himself carved on a map that was supposedly unearthed by his hands! I don't know about you, but, for me, IF I discovered something that was/could be a LIFE CHANGING EVENT, would I destroy it by carving zeros on the back? By CARVING anything on the stone itself? NO. I wouldn't. I would have no part of destroying history.
Would you?
I pose the same question to anyone out there that is a DH. If you found a stone map, or a map written on a piece of Leather, paper, bark or poop, would YOU deface it if you BELIEVED it to be Authentic?