Both sides of Stone Maps Argument

[Oroblanco]

I wanted to write another imput, just to complete the alleged " Peralta " stone maps saga. What we have to take in consideration to can make an image on what era those "cities"/caves of gold were created, is what Pope Pius III ( at least was attributed to him ) wrote about this region, about 20 before Spaniards set foot in North America. Many believed Pope's description ( or whomever ) was for the New Mexico region but the encrypted text tells another story.
And here is the text from the book written by Daniel J Duke at https://books.google.gr/books?id=EG...us III about the seven cities of gold&f=false :

View attachment 1801846

IMO, the Soledad peak in this description is Weavers Needle and not Victorio peak or Soledad peak in NM like many others believed. And now , we come back to Celeste Jones map which describes the region of the seven caves of gold in the Superstitions.

View attachment 1801847

You can think " how we know the map is for the Superstitions, because in the map is not depicted any known landmark ", but I would say how in this map exists a symbol which shows where is that region in regards to WN, and also in the map is shown a turtle ( below the eagle ) which is a true landmark ( my current avatar ) that is " looking " at the end of the doted trail from the map.

View attachment 1801848

The artist of this map, used this turtle landmark ( maybe was inspired by it ) to mark in the map the treasure caves , and we can see them as a half turtle with its head or as a semicircle with a dot attached in the middle exterior. Here is an GE overlay which shows the turtle's head symbol matching in a sealed door

View attachment 1801853 View attachment 1801854 View attachment 1801855

Like you can see in the map, the five cave's symbols are located W-E ( or vice versa ) with the head of the turtles to point east . There, in this W-E line exists another cave which is hidden by the author, but give a treasure code in the doted trail to can find out the location by counting the dots from the begining of the trail to the " man " and after counting the same number of dots from the junction of the " man " trail with the the curved trail. So, the cave is located at the junction of a line and a trail's " dot " in the upper doted trail's bend. This " hidden " cave with the other next to the west and with the other next to the east, are the three asterisks from the Sleeping Lady map which has the south on top.
And after we would find out the sixth " hidden " cave, we can vindicate the Pope's text which says " three sealed doors to the rising Sol ( true east ) sun and and three sealed doors to the setting Sol ( true west ) sun ", as an orientations of the locations and not of the entrances.
And now remains the seventh cave which is " high noon " ( south ) from the other caves and is the " Casa del Cueva de Oro ". Reminds you something this name ? I believe , for sure. For this cave, the author used a different tresure code, which I wouldn't reveal now, in regards to be find its location in the map and of course in the field. Here is a GE overlay which shows where is located the Casa del Cueva de Oro on the map

View attachment 1801856

And now back to the beginning. IMHO, the "Peralta" stone maps were made for the seventh cave which is within Casa del Cueva de ORO.

Interesting post Marius - and really the only reason we (speaking for the public) use that name Peralta stones is due to common usage, which apparently got stuck on the stones due to an assumption that they must be somehow related to the Peraltas.

 

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[markmar]

Wants anyone to see a GE image of the temple/sacred cave which has the stone snake head that overlooks the entrance ?
The legend is true.

 

[somehiker]

Wants anyone to see a GE image of the temple/sacred cave which has the stone snake head that overlooks the entrance ?
The legend is true.

Which "legend" is true, Marius ?
There are quite a few to choose from, with different sources, not to mention details. Most are believed by historians to be based entirely on ancient mythological beliefs......as well as the artistry used to illustrate their historical roots and civil evolution.

 

[markmar]

Which "legend" is true, Marius ?
There are quite a few to choose from, with different sources, not to mention details. Most are believed by historians to be based entirely on ancient mythological beliefs......as well as the artistry used to illustrate their historical roots and civil evolution.

The true side of the legend, Wayne. Someone realize the true side of a legend/myth when has the opportunity to examine the site involved in the story, even from aerial images or boots on the ground.
Being aware of all the versions of the legend, someone can distinguish which version belongs to the reality, once that opportunity would be given.
Of course this temple/cave has nothing to do with this thread and my offer to show an aerial image of the temple which is " guarded " by a stone snake head, was like a bonus to my previous post about the seven cities/caves of gold, bonus which I'm not willing to share anymore.
The actual image of the temple's site is an evolved version of the same legend? A stone snake that was sometime alive?

 

[Oroblanco]

The true side of the legend, Wayne. Someone realize the true side of a legend/myth when has the opportunity to examine the site involved in the story, even from aerial images or boots on the ground.
Being aware of all the versions of the legend, someone can distinguish which version belongs to the reality, once that opportunity would be given.
Of course this temple/cave has nothing to do with this thread and my offer to show an aerial image of the temple which is " guarded " by a stone snake head, was like a bonus to my previous post about the seven cities/caves of gold, bonus which I'm not willing to share anymore.
The actual image of the temple's site is an evolved version of the same legend? A stone snake that was sometime alive?

Not to 'gang up' on you here Marius just have a simple question that requires a rather complicated answer - how do you sort out those 'true sides of the legend' from the pure BS? It sounds as if you are saying that the only way to know is AFTER you have found the mine (and/or treasure<s>) in which case I have to agree, there are so many fictions, erroneous mixing of unrelated tales and deliberate falsehoods in this topic now that really only after the mine is PROVEN to be in some exact X site, can we be 100% certain of what legends, clues etc are actually true and correct. Is that what you are meaning to say?

If so, then how can you be 100% certain your stone headed snake is true, unless you have found the mine? Thanks in advance.

 

[Idahodutch]

Not to 'gang up' on you here Marius just have a simple question that requires a rather complicated answer - how do you sort out those 'true sides of the legend' from the pure BS? It sounds as if you are saying that the only way to know is AFTER you have found the mine (and/or treasure<s>) in which case I have to agree, there are so many fictions, erroneous mixing of unrelated tales and deliberate falsehoods in this topic now that really only after the mine is PROVEN to be in some exact X site, can we be 100% certain of what legends, clues etc are actually true and correct. Is that what you are meaning to say?

If so, then how can you be 100% certain your stone headed snake is true, unless you have found the mine? Thanks in advance.

Oro,
I have to agree that concrete evidence should accompany a declaration or accusation, for either to really hold any weight. Sometimes if the evidence is circumstantial, it may take overwhelming amounts to be beyond reasonable doubt.
The changes in light throughout the day, and even time of year, play a lot on what folks see and don't see in those mountains, and that's up front and in person. Things can really look like things they are not. There is not very much that I am 100% certain of to declare it truth. . . . I know I have a tendency to speculate . . Not to be confused with truth.
Idahodutch

 

[Idahodutch]

That last part didn't come out like I wanted, there are times I have presented circumstantial evidence, and provided my speculations about it, but that is not something that is 100% certainty. Even beyond reasonable doubt is not necessarily 100% certain. (wasn't saying anything I presented was beyond reasonable doubt . . just some stuff that fit)
Idahodutch

 

[somehiker]

The true side of the legend, Wayne. Someone realize the true side of a legend/myth when has the opportunity to examine the site involved in the story, even from aerial images or boots on the ground.
Being aware of all the versions of the legend, someone can distinguish which version belongs to the reality, once that opportunity would be given.
Of course this temple/cave has nothing to do with this thread and my offer to show an aerial image of the temple which is " guarded " by a stone snake head, was like a bonus to my previous post about the seven cities/caves of gold, bonus which I'm not willing to share anymore.
The actual image of the temple's site is an evolved version of the same legend? A stone snake that was sometime alive?

I've had such an opportunity Marius......more than once and via all means. Aerial imagery, "boots on the ground", and the view screens on my cameras from differing perspectives and lighting conditions. Combined with extensive research and cross-referencing of academic resources, I am quite able to determine my own "truth" as it pertains to the "legend". That truth includes more than one link to the stone maps AND the stone crosses.....etc. I didn't arrive here for example, without doing all of that.

It hasn't come alive yet.....at least not whenever I've been present on site.

 

[JohnWhite]

Maybe one day I will be able to prove with 100% certainty that I have been where I have been and I have seen what I claim that I have seen...lol...Who knowsMaybe I might even be able to talk my offspring into making the trip with me when I do try to return to where I have been...Of course I will show them and spoon feed them the information that I hold within my mind...And who knows IF they may see the light...hehehe...

I know that my sons don't hold any interest in making that trip and my daughter seems to share the same sentiments as my sons...Oh well...I guess that I will be taking said information with me to the grave...With each passing day I believe more and more that I will be meeting my maker with said secrets...Maybe one day someone will find the areas that I have played with in the past...I doubt it will be any time soon though...I doubt IF I will ever be able to return to said sites...

Heck...I am having a hard enough time returning to Reno as it is...Even IF I am able to make that trip one day I will be facing at least 10 million to one odds of finding any diamond as it is...And the odds are a billion to one against me finding another little Tia Juana...Those are pretty overwhelming odds when I think of it...And I have a fair idea of where I found what I believe to be a paragon diamond...So, I believe that the odds are even greater for any other prospector to find the area where I overcame said odds...Good luck to all of ya'll who search for the proverbial diamond in the rough...The odds are against us...I personally am in no rush to try to find another diamond...And I have a fair idea of where I found my so called Tia Juana...rofl...Go figure...hahaha...

What are the odds of finding Santa FeI think that the odds are more favorable in finding the area depicted in the PSM's...Maybe one day I might get on a darned mule again...Only time will tell...I wonder IF there really is a treasure associated with said locale

Ed T

 

[somehiker]

Time to jump back in Ed ?
Took ya less than 20 minutes this time......yer getting better at what ya do best..
ROFL.......

 

[JohnWhite]

Well Wayne...Ya'll will not see me running around looking for a snake carving in rocks...I thought that it is treasure hunting 101 that a snake represents a river and a snake's head would therefore represent a beginning of a river or something to that effect...lol...Wouldn't it be something IF I am the one who walks among the 7 golden candlesticksAs IF such a thing could be possible...

Ed T

 

[somehiker]

I don't expect anything more than that which you have given so far Ed.
EOM......LOL

 

[JohnWhite]

I will not be giving any useful information out Wayne...Some of you may hope that I divulge more that I have or will but I won't...Some of ya'll may be studious in treasure tales and such...But what have ya'll found

Good luck in your search Wayne...Maybe you and a certain baseball fan can get together and head for the hills...Ya'll just might get lucky...

Ed T

 

[markmar]

Not to 'gang up' on you here Marius just have a simple question that requires a rather complicated answer - how do you sort out those 'true sides of the legend' from the pure BS? It sounds as if you are saying that the only way to know is AFTER you have found the mine (and/or treasure<s>) in which case I have to agree, there are so many fictions, erroneous mixing of unrelated tales and deliberate falsehoods in this topic now that really only after the mine is PROVEN to be in some exact X site, can we be 100% certain of what legends, clues etc are actually true and correct. Is that what you are meaning to say?

If so, then how can you be 100% certain your stone headed snake is true, unless you have found the mine? Thanks in advance.

Hi Roy

In a case when you hear a sound but you are not capable to see the source, you are 99% sure you can recognize the provenance of that sound. Sometimes the determination is the best guide to take the best decisions.

 

[markmar]

I've had such an opportunity Marius......more than once and via all means. Aerial imagery, "boots on the ground", and the view screens on my cameras from differing perspectives and lighting conditions. Combined with extensive research and cross-referencing of academic resources, I am quite able to determine my own "truth" as it pertains to the "legend". That truth includes more than one link to the stone maps AND the stone crosses.....etc. I didn't arrive here for example, without doing all of that.

It hasn't come alive yet.....at least not whenever I've been present on site.

Wayne, IMO the snake in your photo maybe was made to shows only the way and to make a big impression. Nobody would make a so large monument to give away their place.
The real snake head is no more than 12 feet large and is only visible when you are in front of the entrance. Was made in a specific angle, to be protected from the surrounding landmarks and out of the humans sights.

 

[markmar]

Wayne, I'm also wondering if you know what represent the two bowls from the legend and how many stone reptiles encounter the cave's region.

 

[somehiker]

Wayne, I'm also wondering if you know what represent the two bowls from the legend and how many stone reptiles encounter the cave's region.

The "blue stone and white stone" legend ?
Yes, I'm familiar with that one, although it may be based on an much earlier version which I am also aware of.
That one features a two-headed serpent like this........

 

[somehiker]

Wayne, IMO the snake in your photo maybe was made to shows only the way and to make a big impression. Nobody would make a so large monument to give away their place.
The real snake head is no more than 12 feet large and is only visible when you are in front of the entrance. Was made in a specific angle, to be protected from the surrounding landmarks and out of the humans sights.

I'm more inclined to think the serpent was adopted, rather than created by those who considered it one of the most important of the many deities and demigods worshiped by a number of civilizations for over 17 centuries at the least. In the beginning, the rock formation, which is over 200 yds. long, may have only resembled one of the animals they had encountered during their migrations, which held the power of life or death over them, but it seems likely they added greater detail at some point in time. I believe those same details, one of which became the basis for the descriptive term "feathered serpent", are very important to what seems to be the bigger picture here and elsewhere.
Here is another illustration which, like the inset of my other photo, shows why I say this......

 

[somehiker]

Another detail.....the shape of the hood over the eye.

 

[markmar]

The "blue stone and white stone" legend ?
Yes, I'm familiar with that one, although it may be based on an much earlier version which I am also aware of.
That one features a two-headed serpent like this........

Yes, the two-headed snake, that when lifts up its heads and look each other, forms a heart shape. A heart which gives and takes lives.
The concept of the two snake heads looking each other , is the continous fight between Bad and Good, the negative (-) and the positive (+) which are the source of the energy and the male and female as a contrary gender.
The native Indian versions of this legend, have almost all those aspects of the two-headed snake. One legend says about alive male and a female snakes which retreat themself after a specific action, another about a single alive snake which would turns in stone after a specific action and another about two stone snake heads which guard the entrance.
Also the native Indians adopted the concept of the two serpent heads as ther Bad and the Good , but changed the snakes with wolfs ( black and white ) and use this story as the battle of the Evil and Good in the humans souls. They end the story saying how wins the wolf that you " feed ".
So, in what side of the " heart " we will be placed, is a matter of what we will choose to do and think.