Video 6 - On Tumlinsons Trail : The Peralta Stone Maps

[Azquester]

After viewing the second post I made I went back to the photo's I have of the Stone Maps. You can see the chisel marks on the PH map just like the 2000 year old map stone. You can't see the chisel marks very much on the TM's but you can in the Heart Stone! Go figure that one out.

To this day resins are used to stabilize Granites and Quartzite's for countertops and bars so resins have been and are still being used for stone.

Fire tinder kits worth having some resin stashed in for damp weather. Hey monsoons happen.
Westernly parflech replaced eastern birch bark that had seams sealed in some applications and repairs. A leak in a bladder bag or some water gourd ect. could be patched with pitch.
Large stone glued... I don't know. Most stone was also bound that was pitched and smaller in size than those in the bumper picture by far.
Not sure why they were rejoined really.
I've a story about animal glue in a shop, but it's even farther off topic than my usual ones.

 

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[Hal Croves]

Think of a really great cake - and you want to bake one. Perhaps you want to bake one for your mom.

You have 2 "chefs" you can choose from.

1) has never set foot in a kitchen - but has spent a lot of time researching recipes online.

2) someone that makes cakes a few times a week - also does research online for good recipes

It's not that person 1 is wrong - he / she just doesn't have "real world" experience.

being heard is not the same as acting like you're Gordon Ramsey and you've never stepped foot in a kitchen.

Baking a cake is really not that difficult, in fact a monkey could do it.
Now, getting that monkey to spend time researching recipes well, that would be a trick.

 

[releventchair]

After viewing the second post I made I went back to the photo's I have of the Stone Maps. You can see the chisel marks on the PH map just like the 2000 year old map stone. You can't see the chisel marks very much on the TM's but you can in the Heart Stone! Go figure that one out.

To this day resins are used to stabilize Granites and Quartzite's for countertops and bars so resins have been and are still being used for stone.

Circles back to the possibility of multiple hands, and or multiple tools with material quality in there too.
Anyone patient enough to work that much might as well reshape and sharpen tools as needed.
Under duress neatness is out the window but all are mostly legible with no blown out areas, just not understandable/translatable ,to me anyway.

 

[releventchair]

Alright Hal.
Did my homework.

 

[Azquester]

Simply a Tourism ploy.

We tell you all about the Stone maps and you travel here for a look see because we love company just don't feed the rattle snakes!

Come on out here and buy a map we have a sale! Arizona has used that ploy since the early 1900's when Arizona was just starting as one of our United States its been going on that long. Travis read about it. Donald Page the Archaeologist for AZ back then promoted it that way.
Helps keep that old Map Museum floating. Funny, that's were the all this is stemming from anyway.
One big infomercial for publicity helping support a dying State Tourism. We are all helping in our own ways. I do! This state needs all the help it can get!

So come on out and we'll keep a light on for ya just don't talk let us do the talking we need the money.

Secrets of the Desert aren't cheap!

I didn't vote on the Poll.
Sure would not want to revisit Az. just to be heard though. Better reasons than that and they ain't in the Supes..
If that really is a prerequisite to be heard, let me know.

 

[Hal Croves]

Alright Hal.
Did my homework.
View attachment 1178255

If I am reading your instructions correctly, two 8" shallow pans are the equivalent of one 9" round or, 12 cupcakes. Not being a baker, I find that fascinating. Each cake should then serve 12 people. Now I know.

 

[hooch]

So if I fabricate up a couple of treasure maps, then break them and glue them back together, time will be spent arguing over what kind of glue I used?

Only by people who are all out of options and don't want to come to terms with how many years of their lives they wasted chasing a fart in the breeze lol

 

[Hal Croves]

Only by people who are all out of options and don't want to come to terms with how many years of their lives they wasted chasing a fart in the breeze lol

hooch,
You have my new found respect for being brutally honest and calling what you believe to be a spade, a spade. Option-less people chasing the impossible. That's brilliant.

 

[coazon de oro]

lol...do you make sense every now and then?..i wasn't aware of that....

I've known it all along.

 

[RG1976]

Thank you to member "Oso" for pointing on the major differences between the Life Magazine Article in 1964 and the photo I shot at the museum.

Here is a side by side. (make sure to view the full picture) I did change my image to be Black & White.

 

[sgtfda]

Ryan that's because the witch stone was worn down over the years from everyone licking it.

 

[RG1976]

Ryan that's because the witch stone was worn down over the years from everyone licking it.

Licking the witch? please....for the love.....don't tell me that's a glue that they used. After 10 licks - spit into a cup and apply as necessary to hold rocks together.

 

[Las Vegas Bob]

Thank you to member "Oso" for pointing on the major differences between the Life Magazine Article in 1964 and the photo I shot at the museum.

Here is a side by side. (make sure to view the full picture) I did change my image to be Black & White.

Some significant differences can be seen.

 

[sgtfda]

 

[RG1976]

Here's another interesting little tidbit of information.

The results of Mel Brower's investigation. This was done in April of 1965.

The private investigator went to Hood River Oregon.

1) first stop was the Hood River PD - where they couldn't find a file on Tumlinson.

2) On advice of the police, he went to check out a friend of Travis' named Bob Bair.

3) Mr. Bair was nervous to talk about Tumlinson at first, but eventually agreed and said the following

a) Travis and Bob had planned a 2-week trip to the Superstitions together, but never happened because of Travis' untimely death.
b) Mr. Bair claimed to have seen "all" the stones. There were 3 plus the heart stone.
c) The Private Investigator asked Mr. Bair about the horse stone, in which he said he had never seen a horse stone. But had seen a stone with an indian head on it - with 2 bars covering the indian's mouth
d) Mr. Bair said "I think there is something you should know". Travis carved all the zero's on the heart stone himself. The reasoning - he wanted to throw people off in case someone ever stole the stones from him. The P.I concluded that it was done to receive more financial assistance.
e) Mr. Bair stated that Travis had started a manuscript and that it was nearly done by the time of his passing. Mr. Bair's wife had read the manuscript and that it was "quite good".
f) Mr. Bair stated that the stones and the manuscript were in Texas at a relatives house.
g) The P.I. then questioned an attorney ( Wayne Annala), who wrote the final will for Mrs. Tumlinson, stating that many people in Arizona wanted to buy some "treasure maps" and also Travis' manuscript.
h) Mr. Annala told Mrs. Tumlinson that his advice would be to sell everything - as financial help for the next 6 months - the time that Dr's told Mrs. Tumlinson she had left to live.
i) The P.I. asked to get a copy of Tumlinson's file - and for the first time in the history of this attorneys firm, Travis' file seemed to have gone missing. (thats twice now with Travis and missing files)


As a side note - the information on the arrest records won't be avail until I can meet with the "old timer" later this week.

 

[Old]

This is just my thoughts, very little to back them up......and unfortunately (or fortunately) work takes up most of my productive time. So., for what its worth.

I'm convinced the TS on the bumper and the TS in the museum are different stones. To me, the one's on the bumper look more authentic. Whether either or neither are ancient, I have my doubts.

Of the 4 stones in the museum the heart stone and the H/P stone have a more authentic look. I believe the TS in the museum are copies.

There is a story, which I believe to have some merit, that when the MOEL suit was winding down to its conclusion the major stockholders split up the remaining asset......the stones among themselves. Mitchell got two originals and two copies. I think those are the stones in the museum. The H/P stone and the heart stone being the originals. Mitchell's partner, vice president, and major stockholder, Elgin L. Kriewald, received 2 originals and two copies.

I have seen evidence Mr. Kriewald lived in North Dakota and in Washington St. One source says he died in Mesa, Maricopa AZ in December of 2003. Whether he did in fact receive part of the original stones, I can not say with certainty, but that is what is alleged. Whether he kept them or sold them I do not know. But...........if anyone is interested in the original trail stones, I'd say this is the place to start looking.

 

[markmar]

 

[RG1976]

This is just my thoughts, very little to back them up......and unfortunately (or fortunately) work takes up most of my productive time. So., for what its worth.

I'm convinced the TS on the bumper and the TS in the museum are different stones. To me, the one's on the bumper look more authentic. Whether either or neither are ancient, I have my doubts.

Of the 4 stones in the museum the heart stone and the H/P stone have a more authentic look. I believe the TS in the museum are copies.

There is a story, which I believe to have some merit, that when the MOEL suit was winding down to its conclusion the major stockholders split up the remaining asset......the stones among themselves. Mitchell got two originals and two copies. I think those are the stones in the museum. The H/P stone and the heart stone being the originals. Mitchell's partner, vice president, and major stockholder, Elgin L. Kriewald, received 2 originals and two copies.

I have seen evidence Mr. Kriewald lived in North Dakota and in Washington St. One source says he died in Mesa, Maricopa AZ in December of 2003. Whether he did in fact receive part of the original stones, I can not say with certainty, but that is what is alleged. Whether he kept them or sold them I do not know. But...........if anyone is interested in the original trail stones, I'd say this is the place to start looking.

Hmm....this is interesting. Let me start researching and see what comes up

 

[Matthew Roberts]

I have to say that after viewing all the great videos, reading hundreds of pages and thousands of posts here concerning the Stone Maps, my opinion is exactly the same as it was in the beginning. I'm neither leaning farther one way or the other.

The Tumlinson's, Travis and Robert and also Clarence Mitchell for that matter have all been portrayed as upstanding citizens and thoroughly trashed as crooks, liars and fraud artists. They're either Angels and drunken scam artists. Personally, I don't think they are either. I think like most of us they fall somewhere in the middle. These threads are valuable because they show beyond any doubt that the Stone Map issue is polarizing, not objective. The believer or non believer tends to pick and choose the information or theory that best fits their belief. And then, bends the interpretation to it's breaking point. When all else fails or a salient point is mentioned which cannot be brushed aside, the personal attacks fly or the always amusing, I've been in the mountains more than you have so I know more.

I've been in the Superstition Mountains a time or two myself not that it really makes a difference here, and met a few of the characters in the matter, the Mitchell's, Richard Peck, a few of the Tumlinson's and others. The Tumlinson family was "interviewed" no less than 3 times by various individuals long before these threads started and all 3 times a different story was told. It shows even those on the inside have their own versions and prejudices. The Mitchell's were all fairly consistent with their accountings. Also there are some people you've probably never heard of who were right in the forefront and heavily involved with the Stone Maps and what became of them. Clyde Koyen, Dale Edwards, Al Reser, Clayton West, Ray Grant, Lee Hammons, Paul Dean, Mason Coggins, and others.

I believe if Gollum and Azmula were to participate a lot could be learned of the issues.

Matthew

 

[Old]

Mr. Roberts,

I would be most interested to hear your thoughts on the origin and usefulness (if any) of the stones. Please share.