Video 6 - On Tumlinsons Trail : The Peralta Stone Maps

[Simon1]

Matt the story is the stones were hosed off at a gas station after being discovered to get dirt and roots off. A glued heart stone in that photo put the whole story in a bad light. Unless as Homar said the stone was found glued.

Obviously, I am new here, so I have a lot of catching up to do before I can even come close to the caliber of those here. I will have to look it back up, but several years ago I had read where "one" of the stones had broken while being washed off. Not sure which stone, or if it was the heart portion. Which, if it was the Heart portion, then this somewhat makes sense. This was also reported to have happened at a gas station. Being a gas station, they would certainly have had "glue" on hand as a daily part of their business would have been repairing those inner tubes inside those low tech tires. Rubber cement has a yellowish tint to it, but that would not always be the case because at times a lite match would be used to help bond the glued surface. Naturally, I wasn't there, but just saying, it is feasible that they grabbed whatever was handy. Many times I wished I had 20/20 hindsight, had he knew that gluing the piece would inhibit its credibility, he might have chosen a different option, then again, those guys were living in the moment and not thinking about down the road.
This was a great video Frank and Ryan. Ryan, you have a great sounding voice for narrating, not loud, not scratchy, very smooth and concise. Look forward to what you guys present us with next. I have followed this stuff for maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany years, and only recently,( this month ), joined this forum, in part, due to the professionalism as well as open mindedness being displayed here, as well as your educational videos. I have my own opinions, but not so narrow minded that I fail to see big picture.

 

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[azdave35]

Why am I here? This thread is about Ryan's video, not a faith circle for the Peralta Stone Maps. Have all the faith you want, but I operate from evidence. I don't see any evidence that the stone maps are anything more than a con game perpetrated on people all too willing to be convinced of their authenticity. If evidence is presented in the future that shows my conclusions are false, I will be happy to reconsider that perspective. As I am sure Ryan would reconsider his conclusions as well should such evidence come to light.

he's here for the same reason the rest of us are here..a little knowledge and alot of entertainment

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal, i did not belittle anyone. That is not my modus operandi.

Water under the bridge.

 

[Hal Croves]

some folks get pretty touchy over those maps.....it doesnt take much to get them worked up

Most folks.
The stones tend to polarize people.

 

[Hal Croves]

Why am I here? This thread is about Ryan's video, not a faith circle for the Peralta Stone Maps. Have all the faith you want, but I operate from evidence. I don't see any evidence that the stone maps are anything more than a con game perpetrated on people all too willing to be convinced of their authenticity. If evidence is presented in the future that shows my conclusions are false, I will be happy to reconsider that perspective. As I am sure Ryan would reconsider his conclusions as well should such evidence come to light.

UncleMatt,

Forgetting about Waltz for a moment, what "evidence" would it take to convince you that the stones are not just some pointless con game? Specifically, what would you need to read or see? I am not asking about what the maps may or may not lead to, only about their history and their authenticity.

What evidence would need?

 

[Hal Croves]

hal why would the public owe the museum an apology?

I am not sure that I could pull that one off, but one apology made publicly would suffice.
It's pointless to debate.

 

[Hal Croves]

hal..that museum could care less if those maps are real or fake...they are just on loan to them

azdave,
If you had to guess, what percentage of museum revenue can be attributed to the marketing and displaying of the stone maps? A low percentage would confirm your post.

 

[sgtfda]

Visitations are at a all time high at the museum due to Legend of the Superstition Mountains. We were well received. Additional publicity from the video only improves the line of visitors. I'm very happy for them. The last thing they are looking for is a apology.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal,

It was written as part of evidence in SEC v MOEL that FLAGG could not verify the authenticity of the stones. So to question which set of stones is displayed is rather a moot point. Is there a back room? I believe we saw it in the video as part of a library. And yes, ALL Museums have an "Backroom" so to speak that holds artifacts that are not currently on display. I have seen them and have friends that are curators that work behind the scenes with exhibits.
The bottom line, Museums are a business. They display relics and artifacts of the past or Models of artifacts of the past to give reference to History.

Yes, most museums have storage rooms. I don't know of any that sell tickets to view miss-labeled substitutions or private viewings for cash. It just doesn't happen at any credible museum. Strike that, it is uncommon. Most museums today could use the revenue and I will now humbly admit, after several years on TNet, anything is possible.


Only the solvent survive.



above:

Of course, to many members it seems a mute point. But for those of us who are "invested", personally, financially, emotionally, understanding is about as good as a sack of ore. Clarity, knowing, being able to explain it. In the end, that might be about as good as it gets for any of us, especially if the stone maps represent locations in the wilderness area.

Which, unfortunately for me, I believe they do.

 

[deducer]

some folks get pretty touchy over those maps.....it doesnt take much to get them worked up

Thankfully the potshots taken today are of the verbal (or typed) sort, and not the real thing as in the days of Ed Piper, et al.

Don't think it's the idea of finding something, or finding gold, as much as it is the idea of overnight wealth that severely distorts realities and priorities. There is a whole field of psychoanalysis devoted to this phenomenon, including the study of SWS (sudden wealth syndrome).

 

[UncleMatt]

Hal, I would need to see someone replicate the stones with a chisel and hammer, which are the tools they would have had to create them if the Jesuits or the Peraltas fabricated them to begin with. I would need to see evidence they actually lead to something of value. I would need to see evidence that backs up Tumlinson's story of discovery, when as things stand now, all we have is his story full of holes that he actually did so. After watching Ryan's video and seeing the maps up close for myself, I conclude they are of modern manufacture and were created with the intent of perpetrating a hoax for monetary gain. I look forward to seeing what Ryan comes up with next on this topic, as I imagine he is not going to disappoint in that regard.

 

[UncleMatt]

Don't think it's the idea of finding something, or finding gold, as much as it is the idea of overnight wealth that severely distorts realities and priorities. There is a whole field of psychoanalysis devoted to this phenomenon, including the study of SWS (sudden wealth syndrome).

I agree and have pointed out this very thing on T-net more than once in the past.

 

[releventchair]

Stone with provenance. Seems like the suitable day to share it.

 

[RG1976]

Great video - what a nice tribute!

Happy Father's Day to all the dads out there

 

[DiggerGal]

Stone with provenance. Seems like the suitable day to share it.

That one got me choked up. What an amazing heartfelt tribute. Thank You for sharing something so personal.

 

[releventchair]

That one got me choked up. What an amazing heartfelt tribute. Thank You for sharing something so personal.

Just a video someone else shared.
Does give context though that some stone work stands on it's own un-contestable merit as being created for good, and all worked material has an original source.
A brief respite from chasing other, harder to sort out; stone work here.
Maybe too a quick reflection of our own origins, with a dad in it somewhere how ever briefly..

 

[coazon de oro]

Obviously, I am new here, so I have a lot of catching up to do before I can even come close to the caliber of those here. I will have to look it back up, but several years ago I had read where "one" of the stones had broken while being washed off. Not sure which stone, or if it was the heart portion. Which, if it was the Heart portion, then this somewhat makes sense. This was also reported to have happened at a gas station. Being a gas station, they would certainly have had "glue" on hand as a daily part of their business would have been repairing those inner tubes inside those low tech tires. Rubber cement has a yellowish tint to it, but that would not always be the case because at times a lite match would be used to help bond the glued surface. Naturally, I wasn't there, but just saying, it is feasible that they grabbed whatever was handy. Many times I wished I had 20/20 hindsight, had he knew that gluing the piece would inhibit its credibility, he might have chosen a different option, then again, those guys were living in the moment and not thinking about down the road.
This was a great video Frank and Ryan. Ryan, you have a great sounding voice for narrating, not loud, not scratchy, very smooth and concise. Look forward to what you guys present us with next. I have followed this stuff for maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaany years, and only recently,( this month ), joined this forum, in part, due to the professionalism as well as open mindedness being displayed here, as well as your educational videos. I have my own opinions, but not so narrow minded that I fail to see big picture.

Howdy Simon,

The only way to verify what kind of glue was used, is to have it tested as the late Jim Hatt suggested. Somehiker's idea that it could be amimal glue is a valid one, such as your idea that it could be tire repair cement. My own idea is that it could be pine, or mesquite sap glue. I lean more to the pine sap since it more yellowish. Pine sap globs are melted usually on a hot rock next to a fire, then ground charcoal powder is added to it. It make a very strong black glue as seen mostly in the front of the heart stone. The yellow on the back could be pine sap that didn't get mixed properly.

Homar

 

[somehiker]

Pine resin IS another possibility Homar.
And there have been articles found out there which look to have been coated with the same stuff.
Both animal glue and pine resin start out amber colored, and often darken with age alone.
I have a couple of excellent samples at home, including a very old piece of handcrafted wood, which had been glued together using both types.
But that piece doesn't have anything to do with all of this. Just something passed down through four generations so far.

Regards:Wayne

 

[RG1976]

Pine sap glue?

Pine tress in the desert?

This is why it's important to come to Arizona and visit.

 

[somehiker]

Pine sap glue?

Pine tress in the desert?

This is why it's important to come to Arizona and visit.

Hi Ryan:

Just a short drive down 60, towards Globe, and you will see plenty of them in the "Pinals".
"pine" in this case is just a generic name for any evergreen tree or shrub from which the sap can be boiled down or used as drawn for glue.
There are singles and small groves of cedars etc. scattered throughout the Sups. as well.

Regards:Wayne