The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

[cactusjumper]

CU,

You confuse not believing everything someone writes, with a lack of respect. I respect Hodge, (and staying in the thread) Ely, Bark, Corbin, Dr. Glover.....etc. but don't believe everything they have written. Knowing that honest mistakes can be made by every thinking person/historian, means trust but verify. That includes you, my friend. You may reverse that and include me, as well.

I am not questioning Hodge's entire work, but would like to see a little more meat on this particular bone, before spending a lifetime trying to find Jesuit Treasure based on such a short passage. In any such search, wouldn't you want to establish that such treasures exist.....first? Does that seem imprudent?

I hope to continue to question conclusions and "facts", without running anyone off this Forum.

By constantly questioning my own conclusions concerning the Stone Maps, I have changed my perception of their purpose and origin. After forty-plus years, I am not unhappy with the truth I believe I have found.

Finding the truth is worth the debate, at least for me it is.

Respectfully,

Joe Ribaudo

 

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[cactusjumper]

Mike,

[You are stuck in what you believe, and I know there is no changing it, but try these:

"In 1850, which was just after the war with Mexico, the United States Government sent a man named J. Ross Browne to the Tumacacori area to investigate the mining activity. In his report to the US Government, referring to the Tumacacori Mission and Tubac, he wrote, "Tubac had probably 150 silver mines within a radius of 16 miles. None of them have been worked in at least the last 50 years.]
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I don't know where you got your information, but I believe you are badly mistaken. The U.S. Government did not send J. Ross Browne to Arizona. He made his first trip, with Charles Poston, in 1863. Here is how the trip came about: "Although it was my intention to visit Arizona some time or other, as it is to visit every part of the habitable globe, I had no more idea on Saturday morning, December 5, 1863, of starting on such an important expedition at 4 p.m. of the same day, than I had of going on a prospecting tour through the Mountains of the Moon."

Browne goes on to describe how he had chanced upon his "old friend Charles D. Poston" and had been persuaded, didn't take much arm twisting, to join his expedition to Arizona. While Poston was "superintendent of Indian Affairs for the new Territory....", Browne did not hold a paid position with the government at that time.

This Information can be found in, "J. Ross Browne: His Letters, Journals & Writings" by Lina Fergusson Browne. It can also be found in, "Adventures In The Apache Country: A Tour Through Arizona And Sonora..." by J. Ross Browne.
Prior to 1863, I don't believe Browne had ever been in Arizona. Between 1849 and 1851 he was in Washington, D.C. and Europe.

It would be interesting to know your source.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

igadbois,

Don't know if you have seen this piece about Frank Pinkley but felt it was interesting enough to add here.

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by JOSHUA M. PROTAS


February 14, 1940 was to be a red-letter day for Frank Pinkley. For years he had dreamed of gathering together the custodians of the various national monuments scattered throughout the Southwest so they could share their experiences from the field, reflect on the common challenges they encountered, and collectively work out solutions to their problems. Even before his appointment in 1924 as superintendent of the Southwestern National Monuments, "The Boss," as he was known to his many colleagues, strove to create a close-knit community among the monuments' staff and their families. His leadership and vision united the custodians of the various archaeological, historical, and natural sites and helped define their commitment to their protection and improvement. In a gathering resembling the reunion of a large but dispersed family, the custodians from the twenty-seven national monuments assembled in Casa Grande, Arizona, in February 1940 at the invitation of the group's patriarch. Pinkley had carefully worked out the details for this "school of instruction" in the hopes that the meeting would optimally benefit all of the participants. He planned work sessions on issues specific to the national monuments, discussion groups, tours of the Southwestern National Monument Headquarters facilities, and informal social activities for the official custodians as well as the "Honorary Custodians Without Pay"--Pinkley's term of endearment for the monument wives. The thoughtful arrangement of the Custodians' School represented the culmination of Frank Pinkley's efforts of more than thirty-five years to strengthen the system of national monuments.

The fateful events of the opening morning of the school were later recalled by one of its participants:


Standing before all of his men attired in the uniform that he loved so well, welcoming them all to the gathering which he had planned for so long, thinking of those others who had served him so well but whom the passage of the years had forced to the sidelines was too much for his great heart. He carried his welcome to its completion, smiled in happiness at the applause of his men, sat down at his table, and slumped forward, his life's work done.

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If Pinkley could have picked "a good day to die", I believe he would have chosen February 14, 1940. My Dad passed away thirteen days ago....February 14, 2007. I believe he may have thought the very same thing. Much like my Father, Pinkley chose the moment to take his last breath.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[gollum]

Mike,

[You are stuck in what you believe, and I know there is no changing it, but try these:

"In 1850, which was just after the war with Mexico, the United States Government sent a man named J. Ross Browne to the Tumacacori area to investigate the mining activity. In his report to the US Government, referring to the Tumacacori Mission and Tubac, he wrote, "Tubac had probably 150 silver mines within a radius of 16 miles. None of them have been worked in at least the last 50 years.]
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I don't know where you got your information, but I believe you are badly mistaken. The U.S. Government did not send J. Ross Browne to Arizona. He made his first trip, with Charles Poston, in 1863. Here is how the trip came about: "Although it was my intention to visit Arizona some time or other, as it is to visit every part of the habitable globe, I had no more idea on Saturday morning, December 5, 1863, of starting on such an important expedition at 4 p.m. of the same day, than I had of going on a prospecting tour through the Mountains of the Moon."

Browne goes on to describe how he had chanced upon his "old friend Charles D. Poston" and had been persuaded, didn't take much arm twisting, to join his expedition to Arizona. While Poston was "superintendent of Indian Affairs for the new Territory....", Browne did not hold a paid position with the government at that time.

This Information can be found in, "J. Ross Browne: His Letters, Journals & Writings" by Lina Fergusson Browne. It can also be found in, "Adventures In The Apache Country: A Tour Through Arizona And Sonora..." by J. Ross Browne.
Prior to 1863, I don't believe Browne had ever been in Arizona. Between 1849 and 1851 he was in Washington, D.C. and Europe.

It would be interesting to know your source.

Take care,

Joe

Hey Joe,

My source date looks like it was wrong, but the information it contained was not.

If Browne was not sent to the area, then why did he write a Hardcover Report in 1868 on the "Mineral Resources of the States and Territories West of the Rockies"? It was a Government Printing Office Report. Please check out the following link:

http://item.express.ebay.com/Books_Antiquarian-Collectible-Books__1868-Report-of-J-Ross-Browne-on-Mineral-Resources_W0QQitemZ6575977906QQihZ012QQddnZBooksQQadnZAntiquarianQ20Q26Q20CollectibleQ20BooksQQcmdZExpressItem

Best,

Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike,

No need to check out the site you provided, as I am not in the market for the report/book. You will find that I referenced J. Ross Browne a number of times on the LDM Forum. I am pretty familiar with the man's history.

Browne and James W. Taylor were only given two months to complete the work. Funding was fairly limited and the timetable given was not possible......unless Browne used his notes and previous experience in the region. That is exactly what he did.

There was some question as to Browne's ability/background/training for such a report. The finished product did not reflect those shortcomings. His appointment in 1866 as "Special Commissioner...." seems to have been a good move by the government.

This is the statement that I questioned: "In 1850, which was just after the war with Mexico, the United States Government sent a man named J. Ross Browne to the Tumacacori area to investigate the mining activity. In his report to the US Government, referring to the Tumacacori Mission and Tubac, he wrote, "Tubac had probably 150 silver mines within a radius of 16 miles. None of them have been worked in at least the last 50 years."

My post to you was correct. I did not question the "Tubac" quote. Your source knows his history, but he seems to be slanting it a bit. There is a lot more to this particular story.

Thanks for your reply,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

One of the questions suggested by Oroblanco's topic is: What do the Stone Maps lead to?

There is the distinct possibility that they lead to caches of gold bars.

The story of Harry LaFrance's Cave of Gold Bars, was first published (as far as I know) in Bob Ward's "True Story of Superstition Mountains: Ripples of Lost Echos". I knew a number of the people involved in the search, with Harry, to relocate that cave.

My Uncle Chuck was one of the searchers. The only one of them, that I know is still alive, is Tracy Hawkins. He along with Ernie Provence, was a partner and friend of Chucks. I knew Ernie very well, and had made a number of trips into the Superstitions with him.

I have heard the story from four of the searchers. Uncle Chuck, Ernie Provence, Dale Howard and more recently, Tracy Hawkins. All four had held the gold bar that Harry brought out and it was photographed. I have been told that the photograph was destroyed in a New River fire. I have no doubt whatsoever, that the gold bar was real.

It was marked with a crown.....nothing more, just a crown.

I believe that Harry told some truth and a number of outright lies. The searchers, as far as I know, never found Harry's cave, but I am fairly certain that Harry located it during the search. I assume he told none of the others. That cave is empty today.

Ten days after being packed out of the mountains....very sick, Harry is said to have died.
I have serious doubts that Harry LaFrance died at that time. Many people say his last name was France, including Tracy Hawkins and Bob Ward, but I know that is not so.

Harry's cave is marked on the Stone Maps, and another cave, with the same type of gold bars is probably also on the maps. If that is true, there are probably two more caches shown on the maps.

The other cave was found by a man named Bob Brady.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike,

You should probably revisit your source for the J. Ross Browne quote. My guess would be, that if he made those statements, they were not made in the "Report". They were not made in "Adventures in the Apache Country nor in any of his private letters, journals and writings, all of which I have read.

That does not mean you have misquoted him. Can you supply a source?

Joe

 

[the blindbowman]

THIS may sound like a dum question . but what they hell dose all of this line of data got to do with the real legend of the LDM, let alone have any real prove of the truth of the legend . or any bareing on any given clues to what the stones are ?

to me its more what you beleave at this piont than what is recorded data of history or known history that is subported by most ! the gray zone is vast after you walk away from recorded history or proven history . these stones , are best left as they are at this piont in time, any thing beyond what they are is opioion at this piont in time ...

the topic is interesting yet has very little true value to the proven data ...or relate dirrectly to the stones them selfs ... IMHO

you say the stones fit a cave where gold bars were found . than another person says they may fit another cave or two caves . yet i stood looking in the mouth of a cave nether of you have pionted out and IMHO it fits the peralta stones as well and yes relates to the legends yet not to anything ypou dirrectly pionted out .

at this piont i can only beleave what i have seen frist hand and .... i do not under stand just what the line of data you all are talking about would relate to what i have seen ... why i do not know ....

if the degussion is about ther peralta , thats a diffrent topic all togather than the stones them selfs . who made the stones is beside the piont in the topic of what they relate to vs where and why ...

that is just the reason why i stated the stones should not have been named the peralta stones unless they had been out right proven to have been made by the peralta them selfs or in their possession but even in their possession dose not mean they made them or even had anything what so ever to do with the stones before their possession of them ...

my point is you could chase the peralta family bloodlines back to the caveman yet it may never relate directly to the stones them selfs

and the same goes for any gold bars found in any cave yet unproven to relate directly to the stones or legends of the LDM or the stones makers reason for makeing them ...


you by now are mostlikely thinking so whats the diffrences if thats the case .. there is in fact a great diffrence between the two . what you think vs what was , what is and why , no matter who made the stones ...

the fact remains we have no prove the stone relate dirrectly to anything .vs our own opioions .. frist hand research of the mt,s them selfs tells me the could relate to what i have found yet the stones translations can vary from 1 to a few thousand diffrent traslations . ....IMHO this was the basic idea the make want to relate in the stones design ....yet even if the stones could be related to so many diffrent traslations only the true translation would fit in only one place .. much like a key in a lock ..

the key may fit thousands of locks yet only open the right one ... i found a lock in 1979 and i am in the same boat as the rest of you . to have the lock and no key to fit it is as bad as haveing no lock the key fits in ... you may thing i would rath have the gold and not know how it got there yet . what is the find worth with out proff of the 6 main pionts , ( where ,when ,why ,who ,what and how )

i have the anwser to 4 of the main pionts in the LDM legend and i beleave 4 of the stones pionts as far as what why and where the stones relate and how , yet this is my opioions


as far as the topic of the post , i question ever word of it .....peralta ? stone or stones diffrent kinds vs one type of stone , maps real or fake or copyies . real maps is that question or a insight lol, lost , lost is a bigger word than most can relate to ...gold where ever gold is talked about we need remember the lore & greed facters , , mines , that list is endless ,,, . they will be finding old mines in 2570 ad .,,, cruel hoax are we going to lable the type of haox if it is one . is the hoak going to be bigger than the stones them selfs ...lol

even a crazy man dose things for logical reasons to his own piont of veiw . yet we may not be able to relate to what he sees and thinks , are insight in to what the stones are is as importain to proveing what they are as if we had each a given map dirrectly to the gold it self no matter where it is ... how many of you have tryed to see what the dutchman saw . become him in body and soul to profile him and try to under stand what he was and why .. who he was it not question ....

yet the word peralta . has no meaning to me IMHO nether dose the word lost for that matter ...


hiden , misplaced , unknown . forgotten .....we can pick one of a few thousand dirrections to take this topic in from what has be stated just in the name of the tiopic it self . where do you draw the line and relate the replies to any given dirrection ?

untill ever leed is proven or disproven the stones are in question , even if the stones had a direct name on them they could still be fakes . IMHO they are not fakes .. or at lest some are reproductions of the true stones ..

i used 4 of the stones and can dirrectly relate them to one given area where 3 diffrent sites all located with in 10 sqft by GPS with .03 of degree . with 3 related azimuth bearing reading with 9 land mark azimuth bearing readings to get a dirrect fix on each of the 3 sites in question , do any of you have any idea what that means . that means 1 out of about 3 million odds , that says this is the true locatins of where the stones relate to ...no matter who made them or why ,or when .....

thats beside the fact of legend data related to the locations as well ......expedtion 3 well prove it ...

am i stalling ? yes....... for good reasons ...

 

[the blindbowman]

i am sorry about the misspelling , i had to change my key board with the new computers and i type with out seeing the letters on the new key baord . my bad and yes i know it ...

 

[cactusjumper]

Bowman,

Reading your posts is like treasure hunting......Hard work, but interesting.

In the case of the cave of gold bars, it is a fact that the gold bar existed. Had my uncle not told me, I would not label it fact.

It is also a fact that the LaFrance cave is shown on the Stone Maps. Two of the Xs are old mines/caves. One is sealed, but has a modern-day claim marker in front of the entrance. That mine is on the ridge that separates West and East Boulder Canyons. It is a short distance south of Willow Spring. Easy climb out of West Boulder to reach it.

There is one other X, which is located in line with East Boulder Canyon, where it turns to the west and then continues southward. It is between that point and Weaver's Needle. That may very well be the Bob Brady cave of gold bars.

The final location is probably the largest cache which, as far as I know, has never been found. That all assumes the maps were not created as a hoax. I believe that was quite possibly done by someone who was familiar with each and every location.

I have given out more information on the Stone Maps, than anyone alive. Everyone else, like you, says........someday. I have given exact locations from start to finish, all of which can be walked by anyone, wanting "proof". All of the many, many disease ridden Stone Map fans have supplied the same thing as you.......horsefeathers.

Out of all those people, not one can prove me wrong. Not one person can hike the trail and say it is in the wrong place......anywhere. When you take the curved line off the top of the one (1), and follow it over the saddle into Little Boulder and end up at the heart, at the end of the trail, you should have no doubt.

I have no intention of writing a book or ever trying to find any cache's that may remain hidden. Don't need to. You may use the information I have freely given here or throw it in the round file.

Good luck and good hunting,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Oroblanco]

Um, really CJ some of us have other things to do besides try to follow out stone maps which I (personally) have ZERO faith in. So as far as I am concerned, your theory as to what the maps lead to is as good or better than any - however that said, unless someone comes out with stacks of gold bars, I will not believe they lead to ANY thing of value, other than scenery and the "thrill of the hunt" which is what I believe they are and were created FOR.

Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Oroblanco,

Sorry....I thought this topic was about the Stone Maps.

One wonders why you bother to post, what with "ZERO faith" in the story. There are many facts in my posts. Perhaps you can point out one that is in error. When I question someone's story, I do it by attacking their facts. I present other facts, usually historical, which show where they may be mistaken.

Others, who have some knowledge concerning the Stone Maps and the topography of the Superstition Mountains, may be interested enough in my "theories" to check them out. Some, like you, will use the round file.

I have always said the Stone Maps may be a hoax. But even if they are, they are real maps. I don't disagree with anything you have said.

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Bowman,

"THIS may sound like a dum question . but what they hell dose all of this line of data got to do with the real legend of the LDM, let alone have any real prove of the truth of the legend . or any bareing on any given clues to what the stones are ?"

I believe you are the one who brought Father Kino into this discussion. Trying to establish if there is any truth in your theory, which would need to include Jesuit Treasure/mining, might require a little research into the early history of Arizona.

It may be of no practical value, other than increasing our overall knowledge of the Southwest, it's history and legends. For some, that will be worth the effort. Other's will find it.....useless. No need to clutter-up your mind with superfluous....stuff.

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Cactusjumper wrote:

One wonders why you bother to post, what with "ZERO faith" in the story.

As you might have noticed from the very title of this thread, "The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?" my reasons for posting and discussing are NOT because I believe in them, rather because I question their veracity, genuine-ness and actual value as tools to assist a treasure hunter in finding any kind of treasures. I am a writer besides being a prospector and treasure hunter, however I prefer NOT to encourage our fellow treasure hunters to pursue leads of dubious value; unless of course the person is willing to chase legends and will not be bothered if it proves to be pure legend.

All that said, I have made some attempt to keep an open mind re: the stone maps - despite the obvious flaw that the inscription style is all wrong to be an old Mexican or Spanish inscription, perhaps there is some excuse for the style being so wrong. Perhaps if I were a bit younger and more 'in shape' with time to spare, I would try out your theory as to where the map leads - however not that young and not that spry, so my time spent in the field is spent on leads which are not quite so questionable as the stone maps. If that seems illogical to you, so be it - we each have our own reasons for our actions; I am sure that some 'clues' or leads that I have followed up on in the LDM and other lost mines and treasures might seem to you to be utterly un-believable and not worth following up. (The LDM is not the only lost mine I have sought in my 'career', in fact I think the LDM might just be the most difficult mine to relocate of all lost mines.)

As to your "attacking the FACTS" rather than other posters, consider your last post:

Cactusjumper wrote:

All of the many, many disease ridden Stone Map fans have supplied the same thing as you.......horsefeathers

("Disease ridden" stone-map fans? )

or,

I have given out more information on the Stone Maps, than anyone alive. Everyone else, like you, says........someday

I don't think my post was a personal attack, if it was perceived as such my apologies - your statements such as:

Out of all those people, not one can prove me wrong. Not one person can hike the trail and say it is in the wrong place......anywhere.

...is a rather sweeping statement, which is in the form of a challenge for someone to go out and test your theory as to where the stone maps lead - my reply of...

Um, really CJ some of us have other things to do besides try to follow out stone maps which I (personally) have ZERO faith in.

...was in reply to that 'challenge' - and I added that as far as I was concerned, your version is as good as any, and is thus in no danger of being proven incorrect by me PERSONALLY because I am not willing to expend my time and energy in testing out stone maps which have not been proven to be genuine and that several experts have stated are frauds. I would sooner follow up other leads, however if you would prefer that I not discuss the stone maps (because of my own personal doubts about their origins and validity) I will be happy to oblige.

Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Oroblanco,

Good points, all. I agree with your assessment of the writing on the Stone Maps. I have little doubt that the Priest/horse maps are anything but a modern-day creation. That puts the trail maps in a bad light as well.

Others have gone out and tested my Stone Map Trail. For those who have not, they have every right to doubt and question me from start to finish. The best part of what I did, was that I put the whole thing on a Topo over 35 years ago......without having set one foot on the Stone Map Trail.

On their own, the Stone Maps would not be so compelling. What makes them of so much interest, is how they fit so well with a large number of other maps, legends and stories, including the LDM itself.

My apologies for my previous post, which was a little over the top.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Oroblanco]

No apologies necessary CJ - I think it was my post that may have ruffed some feathers, which was un-intended. The stone maps are interesting, though I doubt that we will live long enough to learn their true creators and origin beyond question.

It is possible (or at least conceivable) that even if the stone maps can be proven to be frauds, that the creators might well have hidden some kind of nominal treasure for the seeker to find. For instance, if a club of relatively well-heeled members had been the creators (or were behind the creation), and were doing it with an eye to further promote the legends and myths of the Superstitions, they might well have used some of the club funds to purchase some kind of real treasure (not millions of dollars of course, but of some value) - something that would serve to further enhance the "lore" of the stone maps and even encourage others to search more. So even if they can be proven to be frauds, it is possible there could be something to find, if it was not the gold bar removed by La France.... Think of some of the "diamond hoaxes" perpetrated in the past, when some REAL diamonds would be planted on some site for the searchers to find, leading to a "rush" of hopeful diamond prospectors and especially investors.

Oroblanco

 

[Springfield]

It is possible (or at least conceivable) that even if the stone maps can be proven to be frauds, that the creators might well have hidden some kind of nominal treasure for the seeker to find. For instance, if a club of relatively well-heeled members had been the creators (or were behind the creation), and were doing it with an eye to further promote the legends and myths of the Superstitions, they might well have used some of the club funds to purchase some kind of real treasure (not millions of dollars of course, but of some value) - something that would serve to further enhance the "lore" of the stone maps and even encourage others to search more. So even if they can be proven to be frauds, it is possible there could be something to find, if it was not the gold bar removed by La France.... Think of some of the "diamond hoaxes" perpetrated in the past, when some REAL diamonds would be planted on some site for the searchers to find, leading to a "rush" of hopeful diamond prospectors and especially investors.

Excellent post Oro. One wonders who gains from further promotion of the LDM lore when a new 'map' or 'waybill' suddenly sufaces. These 'Peralta Maps', after entering the world like a miraculous virgin birth, certainly help keep more boots in the Superstitions. Do they foster 'investments' or merely laughs?

 

[cactusjumper]

Springfield,

Not the first time that subject has been discussed. There are many people who benefit from the legends of the Superstition Mountains. Going back to the Life Magazine article on the subject, the National exposure was nothing but good for many people with vested interest in seeing the legends grow.

Speaking only for myself, the treasures I have received over the last 48 years cannot be measured in wealth removed from the ground. I never invested more than I could afford on my hobby.

My research has led me on a journey through the history of Spain, Mexico, South America and the breadth of America. It has given me an education in The Jesuits and Franciscans, Native Americans, Archaeology, Geography, Genealogy, Mythology and to a lesser extent.......Rock-ology.

Even though I now believe the Stone Maps are a hoax.....Damn good one at that, I don't regret a single moment of that education or feel that I have "wasted" one second of my time in the Superstitions.

Working on the puzzle of who created the maps has been every bit as exciting as the search to find what might rest at the end of the trail. Not one person who has shared that search with me has ever not been told that the maps could be a hoax. I knew that from the start, and conveyed that possibility to each and every one of them.

I am thankful for the creators of the Stone Maps, and respect the quality and depth of their deception. I tip my hat to them. It's true that some may invest more than they should in this game, but if not in the Stone Maps, they would have rolled the dice in another legend.

In answer to your question, I believe they foster: Investment, Laughs and Dreams. The very stuff that pushed this Nation off the East Coast and made us what we are today.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[the blindbowman]

i agree we never really know what will come in to play in any given legend .but what is truth vs fact is a whole diffrent thing ...

i do enjoy the topics and the over all path yet at times i feel i am danceing in a mass of confussion waiting to happen lol ...

and yes i would much rather hear these side tracks than not .. there value may be seen in time . even if the reality of the legends change ...


let me try to prove my piont ill be back !

i am sorry i could not find the picture i wanted to . it made a statement of its own . the next year after woodstock i was kicked out of school for makeing a peace sign in our school year book . i was just a kid and didnt under stand why my father blew up and told off the school and made them leave the picture as it was ... they did and it is still the same as it was the day it was taken, you ask so what dose that prove . my father had run eletrical equipent for the woodstock event ,i was setting back stage on a big speaker , and a tall black man was walking around talk like he was crazy on life at the time , he came over to me and talked for a few mintues and than gave me the peace sign ,i ask him what it was, he said it ment a person was free inside to be who they wanted to be ... today i look back and know jimmy hendricks was right about what he told me that day ,,, my father was right to at the time , i just didnt know it back than ...i still cry when i think of what a loss of a great man i didnt even know who he would become at the time .....yes a crazy black man at the time became one of the greatest men to ever touch a string ...

 

[cactusjumper]

Bowman,

You have mentioned that you have some doubt that the history we have discussed has anything to do with the reality of the Stone Maps....(paraphrased)

If the Stone Maps are a hoax, created using existing landmarks and artifacts, the only way to sort it out (short of finding treasure) is to see if a treasure or mine is historically feasible. Finding an empty hole in the ground or a worked out mine proves nothing.

Finding the heart at the end of the trail, rock houses in the "right" place or any other "signs" proves nothing, except that the creator was very familiar with the terrain. In this case, they were also very familiar with the maps and legends of the Superstition Range.

There are only a few men, left alive today, who had that kind of knowledge and the propensity to do such a thing. For me, the evidence all points to one man, who is still alive. I have mentioned his name before, not a fair thing for me to do, but I have been known to cross the line, now and again. He has been in contact with me, and while I am certain he knows what I have said, he made no mention of it.

All that means, is that even though you figure out the Stone Maps and find stuff in the right places. that does not mean there will be anything of value there, or for that matter, ever was.

Joe