Idahodutch
Bronze Member
I guess it’s good for those that enjoy looking, that this isn’t all there is to go on.
🤓👍
Idahodutch
The lost Dutchman’s gold mine location
- Thread starter Ramiro valdez
- Start date
🤓👍
Idahodutch
Matthew Roberts
Bronze Member
Photo of PC Bicknell (on the right) while in the Grand Canyon in 1900.
Bicknell was living in Williams at the Lombard, Goode & Company Smelter, reporting and writing for the Coconino Sun and Prescott Prospect newspapers. The Prospect bankrolled Bicknell to report on and photograph the Grand and Marble Canyons in Northern Arizona for a special geology edition.
Bicknell spent 6 months mapping the geology of the canyons and in 1902 published his world famous, ... Guide Book of the Grand Canyon of Arizona.
Bicknell's book was at the time one of the most complete geologic overviews of the Canyon complete with photos, detailed maps and colorfull coments and stories of the Canyon.
PC Bicknell's actual recorded mining ventures were in the Gold Hill district of Cave Creek where in October 22, 1889 he and Frank Gray filed the Money Maker gold Lode claim in Maricopa County Book of Mines #4 on page 624.
The Money Maker was a good producer employing a crew of men into the early 1900's.
Bicknell earned nationwide aclaim for his Grand Canyon work and was one of Prescott's most beloved and respected citizens until his death in Prescott in 1904.
Last edited:
SPARTANOC
Jr. Member
- Jan 17, 2024
- 45
- 115
- Detector(s) used
- Minelab Equinox 800 Metal Detector w/ 15inch Double-D Waterproof
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
Matthew Roberts
Interesting contrast to what Clay Diggins had to say about Bicknell. In what you presented, forms a more positive version of the Newsman and I would have to agree with that historical assessment. 😎
-SpartanOC
You might be of a different opinion had you ever read Bicknell's book
Guide Book of the Grand Canyon of Arizona with the Only Correct Maps in Print: A Volume of Interesting Facts and Gossip
(actual full title)Published by G Rice and Sons of San Francisco
Hardly a geologists delight. Geologists tend to stay away from gossip as it relates to their profession. Which makes sense since Bicknell wasn't a geologist and never succeeded in finding or developing a profitable mine. The book really isn't about geology, as the title makes clear.
Bicknell was buried in an unmarked grave at the Citizens Cemetery in Prescott, Arizona. If you had studied frontier history and Bicknell's life you would know why one of the richest men in Arizona was buried in a paupers unmarked grave.
Matthew Roberts
Bronze Member
Bicknell's sister Josephine bought a headstone for her brother's grave but it never arrived in Prescott.
Dennis Burke the mayor of Prescott was friend and executor of Bicknell's estate which contrary to news reports Bicknell was almost broke at his death.
Bicknell's family back in New York was exceedingly rich but PC and his cousin Pierpont Minor who had come west with PC were disowned by the Bicknell and Pierrepont families.
Dennis Burke the mayor of Prescott was friend and executor of Bicknell's estate which contrary to news reports Bicknell was almost broke at his death.
Bicknell's family back in New York was exceedingly rich but PC and his cousin Pierpont Minor who had come west with PC were disowned by the Bicknell and Pierrepont families.
Yet Bicknell's probate in New York involved over a million. dollars in property. More Kraig "research".
Matthew Roberts
Bronze Member
At Bicknell's probate in Prescott he was slightly in debt. He never received any money inheritance or land holdings.
I didn't study probate extensively in school but I was required to do the full course in Wills and Estates. I learned there that the probate court is properly formed in the jurisdiction where the rem (deceased' property) is located.
Bicknell's will was written and executed in New York, his named heir (his nephew), his bank accounts and his property were all found in New York State so that's where the probate court had jurisdiction. Not sure why any court in Prescott felt they had a right to probate a paupers corpse? Sounds like someone was fishing for loose change from a known millionaire's demise.
The estate willed to Bicknell's nephew amounted to more than 3,000 acres of New York land and a large quantity of bonds, gold and silver coin in several accounts. In 1906 this was considered great wealth. His nephew Eugene P. Bicknell became a wealthy man with his inheritance and went on to accomplish quite a bit in his life. The nephew and his life is another story altogether but worth a side trip if you enjoy real research.
Bicknell's will was written and executed in New York, his named heir (his nephew), his bank accounts and his property were all found in New York State so that's where the probate court had jurisdiction. Not sure why any court in Prescott felt they had a right to probate a paupers corpse? Sounds like someone was fishing for loose change from a known millionaire's demise.
The estate willed to Bicknell's nephew amounted to more than 3,000 acres of New York land and a large quantity of bonds, gold and silver coin in several accounts. In 1906 this was considered great wealth. His nephew Eugene P. Bicknell became a wealthy man with his inheritance and went on to accomplish quite a bit in his life. The nephew and his life is another story altogether but worth a side trip if you enjoy real research.
Matthew Roberts
Bronze Member
It seems Bicknell believed he was to inherit the sum of $28,000 as his share of his mother's estate. It consisted of a large tract of timber land in New York State.
However his mother had died in 1874 without leaving a will and the courts drug out the matter for the next 30 years.
Bicknell sister Josephine had sent Bicknell money to help cover his final expenses but was too little and PC ended up owing Prescott $500.
Bicknells brother Eugene who despised PC probably ended up with anything that might have been due PC Bicknell.
No one can say for certain if PC Bicknell wrote his articles about Waltz and the Lost Mine from first hand information or from stories told time and time again around Phoenix. It's up to each individual to decide what they believe and move on.
However his mother had died in 1874 without leaving a will and the courts drug out the matter for the next 30 years.
Bicknell sister Josephine had sent Bicknell money to help cover his final expenses but was too little and PC ended up owing Prescott $500.
Bicknells brother Eugene who despised PC probably ended up with anything that might have been due PC Bicknell.
No one can say for certain if PC Bicknell wrote his articles about Waltz and the Lost Mine from first hand information or from stories told time and time again around Phoenix. It's up to each individual to decide what they believe and move on.
Thanks for the explanation. I think I now understand why you post the things you do. I suspected as much but I didn't want to assume your motive. The clarification is appreciated.
For myself I don't believe in anything without a factual basis. I find research to be more productive when forming my beliefs after discovering all the facts rather than trying to make the facts align with my beliefs.
Different strokes for different folks. You've chosen a difficult methodology - you will need luck along with your beliefs on that path. Good luck to you.
SPARTANOC
Jr. Member
- Jan 17, 2024
- 45
- 115
- Detector(s) used
- Minelab Equinox 800 Metal Detector w/ 15inch Double-D Waterproof
- Primary Interest:
- All Treasure Hunting
Clay DigginsThanks for the explanation. I think I now understand why you post the things you do. I suspected as much but I didn't want to assume your motive. The clarification is appreciated.
For myself I don't believe in anything without a factual basis. I find research to be more productive when forming my beliefs after discovering all the facts rather than trying to make the facts align with my beliefs.
Different strokes for different folks. You've chosen a difficult methodology - you will need luck along with your beliefs on that path. Good luck to you.
Wow, that sounded like a "dig" if you asked me. All you really did, Clay, was give an opinion of who YOU think Bicknell was and how he conducted his business. You didn't really prove anything or move the conversation forward and only 'poked' someone else's view. I believe both of you do extensive research, probably more than most, but Clay - I believe you went overboard on Matthew Roberts. We could argue all day as to whom Bicknell was and what his intentions were in the long run, but you might miss something important by a man YOU think wasn't worth the 'Salt of the Sea'. I believe you can learn something from anyone who's actually done the research.
In my opinion, Mr. Bicknell was more than just a failure, which you seem to hold tight to. He apparently was the first to get the story out there and there's an "hunter" here who's proven Bicknell's views (or at least some of them), valid. But hey, I wish you all the Luck as well in your own searches.
-SpartanOC
Matthew Roberts
Bronze Member
SpartanOC,
You make some good points. Everything I post is my opinion even if I post it with references. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind or beliefs.
The problem with someone who vows to die on the alter of facts is exactly WHOSE facts are they dying for ?
How does someone know if the facts being used are themselves actually 100% facts ?
Some things are solid but I have read hundreds of so called facts in newspapers, books, affidavits and even legal documents that were proven false.
Most here tend to chose their facts from the sources or people they like and damn the sources and people they don't like. Hardly a method to call yourself a fact checker.
For all we may or may not know of Bicknell, what we do know is only a tiny, TINY fraction of his life and undertakings. Everything that is officially recorded of a person's life, every single hour of that person's life, represents about 1/100th of 1 percent of everything that person ever did. Not a lot to go on to factually decide if a person is an angel or a devil.
You make some good points. Everything I post is my opinion even if I post it with references. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind or beliefs.
The problem with someone who vows to die on the alter of facts is exactly WHOSE facts are they dying for ?
How does someone know if the facts being used are themselves actually 100% facts ?
Some things are solid but I have read hundreds of so called facts in newspapers, books, affidavits and even legal documents that were proven false.
Most here tend to chose their facts from the sources or people they like and damn the sources and people they don't like. Hardly a method to call yourself a fact checker.
For all we may or may not know of Bicknell, what we do know is only a tiny, TINY fraction of his life and undertakings. Everything that is officially recorded of a person's life, every single hour of that person's life, represents about 1/100th of 1 percent of everything that person ever did. Not a lot to go on to factually decide if a person is an angel or a devil.
Idahodutch
Bronze Member
Great post Matthew. 👍
Our beliefs or unbeliefs are a huge factor in how we perceive facts, tainting our views.
🥸
Sincerely,
Idahodutch
