The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

[the blindbowman]

=Oroblanco Perhaps you will find a treasure you never even dreamed of.....Oroblanco

*****************
HI ORO, he already has, ME!
snicker

Tropical Tramp

wich one ? lol ..we are still talking about how to get a solar 6ft by 6ft cell charger and 2 deep cycle batteries, 3 1/2 miles into the med of hell ,,,and thats the easy part ...lol we want to film 6-9 hours a day for 14 days out of 20 at over 135 hours of battery use just for the camera, the laser scaner, gps ,lighting and motion sencers , laptop and range finder and night vission come with their own battieries as well lol they need chargeing also . why only shot pictures 14 days out of 20 , it well take 3 days to get the gear in and 3 days to get it out .. thats how big this expedition is ..not counting food and other equipment ..the idea is not to find what i am looking for, it is to film what i have found ...and scale all photos for the permits ...

 

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[cactusjumper]

TT,

Anyone can set up a mean camp. Setting up a comfortable camp with gourmet meals takes planing, talent and cash. I don't mean for a day, but for up to seven days for seven men. After spending a day climbing 2,000 + feet and 6 - 8 hours exploring, it's nice to come back to great chow and an air mattress in your own tent.

I understand the satisfaction of living off of what you can carry on your back... been there, done that.

Enjoy!

cj

 

[Oroblanco]

Greetings,

Dang you know I thought I was doing good to have WW2 surplus C-rats for a last night meal, or in recent years an MRE. I sure will re-think the next 'expedition' menu, perhaps less dry beans and canned bacon, spring some for more fancy food.

Blindbowman wrote: <snip>how to get a solar 6ft by 6ft cell charger and 2 deep cycle batteries, 3 1/2 miles into the med of hell ,,,and thats the easy part <snip>

I would suggest checking into the flexible solar panels, they are more expensive (and I doubt will last as many years, as the plastic will not hold up to old Sol like glass does) but it is not likely a flex panel will shatter into needles if you were to accidently drop it. (One place that sells these: http://www.earthtechproducts.com/flexible-solar-panels---portable-solar-battery-chargers.html

For those big items I really suggest getting yourself a couple of good pack mules or horses, unless you have a particular love for back-aches. You can rent horses or hire a packer to haul your equipment in, (several rental stables in the Apache Jct area including one run by Ron Feldman) but in the long run it is cheaper to just buy your own and learn to use them, unless your expedition is a one-time thing.

Good luck and good hunting, hope you find the treasure that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Bowman,

Oroblanco has given you some excellent advise. I have used Ron Feldman's outfit for years. It can get pricey, but they are the best in the area. From what you describe, I would not suggest you try to buy stock and equipment for your expedition. Ron's pack animals were around $180 per day, and you will need two or more wranglers for the trip in and the trip out. They will do all of the packing, and drop all of your equipment at your campsite. They will then take the animals back out and come back on whatever day you say, load the panniers and haul your stuff back out.

It will cost you more if you buy the animals and equipment yourself, and you will need to deal with the stock while you are in the mountains, as well as when you come out. You will need trailers to haul that stock and trucks to pull them.$$$$$$

You should look into the solar panels Oroblanco has suggested, or look to a number of smaller panels.

Good luck,

cj

 

[Oroblanco]

Cactusjumper I had not considered the horse trailer - have had one for so long it didn't occur to me that a person would have to buy it! Hiring a packer to haul your gear in and drop you off (like the so-called "spike camp" deals they run for Elk hunters) then come back for you when you want is a great idea and would not mean having to buy a horse trailer, put up fence and buy hay etc. The extra cost of hiring packers should be viewed as a tremendous labor-saver for you, compared with the idea of hauling a lot of equipment, food, etc on your back.

If you plan on making a number of trips however I still think you will be spending less if you get your own stock, and possibly take a class on packing on horses/mules. The Forest Service has classes on it, for a fee. In that case you might want to look at getting burros instead of mules or horses, they are smaller and cheaper to feed, house etc. You can even adopt wild burros for a nominal fee from the BLM, though training them would be quite a chore in itself.

Good luck and good hunting, hope you find the treasure that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

More on adopting burros: http://www.blm.gov/az/newsrels/2006news/monthly_adopts.html The location is in Kingman, which is some distance from Apache Jct.

A supplier of pack equipment:http://www.packsaddleshop.com/

I had not considered what Mrs Oro mentioned - if you should decide to move your camp, it would pay to have your own stock. You can always sell your critters and gear later, assuming you take reasonable care of them, and recover most of your cost in buying them.

Tropical Tramp - care to sell that paper-eatin' mule? Not that I am gettin' any ideas......

Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Oroblanco's,

If you are going to be moving a camp as large as Bowman is talking about, I would recommend a Satellite Phone. We had one our last three trips in, and it worked anywhere in the mountains. Call Ron and tell him to come in and move you. For a price, all things are possible.

With my camps, I didn't move camp, I moved my ass. Set up your camp in the area you want to explore and start hiking. Don't waste time moving your camp.

Bowman knows where he is going. Why would he want to move somewhere else.

On the other hand, if you are going to be moving throughout the mountains, and are not able to pack enough on your back, you might want to consider buying your own critter.....just as you said. 8)

cj

 

[Oroblanco]

Dang Beth (Mrs Oro) beat me again!

Cactusjumper has another great idea - the satellite phone! With that, if there were any kind of emergency or you decide to pack it in early, it is a simple matter of dialing! You are right also, that Blindbowman is talking about going to a particular site, not spending weeks or months at a time 'in the tall tules'. (The longest I ever stayed 'out' was just over four months, could never have done that just with what I could carry on my back.) I have used the old-fashioned radio-phones in the Yukon, but really that did not work real well - the mountains really messed up reception.

Just did some quick and dirty math, you can adopt burros for $125 each, (need to tame and train them of course) fair quality pack saddles $300;(new, used would be slightly less), canvas panniers $115, (you can make your own of plywood, I did and saved money) a top pack you can do by just folding a heavy canvas the right way - so around $1000 to get a pair of burros and the basic pack gear - plus your time for training, a trailer to haul them in (check prices where you live before buying one in AZ - horse trailers seem to be pretty expensive here, while we have bought used but service-able horse trailers in PA, VA, WY for as little as $400 - so of course shop around) so it is a rather large investment. Of course you can also use your pack animals for other things, like to take along Elk hunting or trout fishing in remote lakes and streams, so it depends on how much use you plan to do - for a one-time trip it is wiser to hire a packer.

Has anyone here ever used llamas as pack animals? I have been curious about them - a rancher friend of ours had one but that one was SO danged nasty and aggressive there is no way I would consider trying to use him as a pack animal. As I understand it, they can pack about 80 pounds or so - not as much as even a burro can pack but might be enough to stay out several weeks at a time. (Yes, alright I will admit it, Tropical Tramp, I AM getting some ideas... )

Oroblanco

 

[Sentinel]

Several trips can allow you to cache several areas for camps. Happened many times before and the tradition continues.

A lot of weekend warriors leave the mountains far lighter than they entered.

 

[cactusjumper]

All,

Don't know how Bowman could have gotten more for his money, than the advise and ideas that have been put forth here. No one is right or wrong, because that all depends on Bowman's needs.

However he gets in, for my money, the Satellite Phone is the most valuable advise. He has told us he is going into really rough country. Once they are cut-off from the outside world, a means of communication is worth it's weight in gold.

The larger the expedition, the higher the chances for someone needing medical attention. That phone could mean the difference between life and death. Back home, what if a family member has a life threatening problem.
No treasure is worth not being with them, if possible. I would want to know.

If you are going to spend thousands, and it sounds like that kind of an expedition, rent a phone.

Good luck and good hunting.

cj

 

[Oroblanco]

Randy, would you mind telling me (by PM?) what Ron charges per animal? Just curious of course, personally I would sooner own the stock.

Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Randy,

It's been two years (I think) since my last trip in. I needed to save my energy for the climbs once we were in the areas we wanted to search. Sometimes I would ride in and out, sometimes Uncle Sammy and I would walk. He had a serious aversion to horses, but did make the ride once or twice. That was early on, and he was not a happy rider.

The best transportation for that country, IMHO, is a good mule. Quarterhorse mix makes a fine looking animal, and they can really eat up those mountains. I have always wondered how a Tennessee Walker mule would be in there.

Whatever Ron is charging now, I would be more than happy to pay. Last time in, I think we had seven or eight packhorses and Jesse and his mom came back the next day with the rest of our gear on two horses. Everyone rode in and out on that trip.

I think Ron was always glad to see us coming, but Jesse usually grumbled a little over the crap we took in. Some of that stuff was a little difficult to pack. They always did a great job. When he would roll his eyes, I would just ask if we needed to pay for another horse.

I will try to post a few pictures.

cj

 

[cactusjumper]

A few of our campsites:

 

[cactusjumper]

More of the same:

 

[cactusjumper]

Two more:

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Cactus geeze, what a spoiled bunch. When I think of the many times that I slept on the bare ground in shirt sleeves with three small fires burning, one on each side and one at my feet, sigh.
whipped cream, sheesh.

In the Yucatan expedition my buddy and I both carried all of our supplies for 6 months in #65 Trapper Nelson pack boards. Our heaviest load was 500 rnds of .22 ammo apiece for small game and trading purposes. We scrounged off of the jungle for food, some not too appetizing, but at the time it was wonderful.

Gad cactus --------------------------In the search of Tayopa I was alone most of the time in the then unknown Barranca county of north western Mexico. lots more bandidos there than in the superstitions - still. .

Radios, TV, sat phones. whipped cream amd strawberries steaks sigh. Chairs yet. sniff, plutocrat !

Ah me - Tropical Tramp

 

[cactusjumper]

TT,

My first trip in (age 13) we had a burro for our gear. Until, 1999, there was only one occasion where I did not carry everything on my back. An 80# pack was the norm. That does not count the rifle, .45 SAA Colt, canteen....etc.

In 1999 I started my first "High Dollar" camp using Ron Feldman's string and guides. Duane Short took us in that year. Prior to that, most of my trips were alone. All of Ron's people are Top "Hands".

I don't look down on those who "rough it". I did my share. It was nothing like what you have done, but it was an accomplishment for a city boy. I did survive, but not without a number of pucker factors over the years.

I will be 62 the tenth of next month. I believe I have earned the right to be "spoiled". I will take fresh shrimp, mushrooms and vegtables sauteed in extra virgin olive oil and wine, over Angel Hair Pasta dusted with imported Romano Cheese any day.....over a can of beans 'n franks.

If someone has the funds for a "gourmet" camp, I might be tempted to make one more trip into the Supe's. Everyone should have at least one trip with a decent "camp cook". Your team may not remember every place they hiked, but I guarantee they will remember every meal.

Good luck and good hunting,

cj

 

[the blindbowman]

wheres the hot tub and women ?

 

[cactusjumper]

Bowman,

I should think that is something you would know.

cj

 

[cactusjumper]

The early years.....Jenny, Joe and Uncle Chuck. My dad, Tony, took the picture.

The fellow with my dog, Juno, is Cousin Tom Ribaudo. That was the one trip in that Tom made with me. Juno had his own pack and carried his food. We had talked with Uncle Obie (Stoker) first, and were on out way into the Question Mark Mine at Second Water. We spent the night in Obie's Packard at First Water Trailhead.

cj