The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

[gollum]

Oro,

If you have the slightest ability to read a Topo, and a copy of the trail maps, you can all figure this thing out in ten minutes......or less.

Mike,

I have also seen many hearts and pictures of hearts. I placed mine on a topo over 35 years ago, without ever being in the area. We went in to find two specific monuments that were on that topo. They were there. The heart in the picture is exactly located at the end of the trail that I placed on that original topo. You do not follow the monumented trail. You stay in the bottom of the canyon, find the arrow off the dagger and follow the trail that curves up and thru a saddle. That trail will lead you right into that heart.

Any of your hearts do that?

cj

Hey CJ,

Most of the hearts that have been sent to me were with the promise of discretion (just like I promised you when you first told me about your solution). I don't know if they are even man made. I hate to give a 100% answer, when I haven't seen them in person. I have been in the Supers a few times, but never was able to spend much time there, just short hikes in (mostly tourist crap).

Best,

Mike

 

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[cactusjumper]

Mke,

The Stone Map trail does not require "interpretation". It requires the ability to read and follow a simple map. On that trail you will find empty mines that are all shown on the Stone Maps. At one time, there were monuments on that trail. I have seen them. Someone destroyed the two that we found.

As I said, anyone with a topo and a copy of the Stone Maps can prove out their location in under ten minutes. The clincher will be when you place your boots on the trail and end up at the heart. It's that simple. Don't try to make it into a convoluted code. Just follow the map, look at the landmarks, mines and outlines. They are all where they are shown on the maps.

cj

 

[Oroblanco]

Greetings cactusjumper,

cactusjumper wrote: If you have the slightest ability to read a Topo, and a copy of the trail maps, you can all figure this thing out in ten minutes......or less.

Yes I agree figuring them out is not that difficult, and Mitchell admitted to finding markers/monuments that matched those on the stones, which is good evidence the maker of the stone maps is the same who made the monuments/markers in the hills. The problem is quite a different matter - whether they are real, over-160-year-old stone maps or a set of frauds made up by a hoaxer. There are SO many fake treasure maps out there, if we are serious we need to really look close to determine if these Peralta stones are fakes or genuine before trying to find some kind of treasure with them - but if a person is past the point of "Is It Real" then it is time to put them to the ultimate test. Tumlinson and Mitchell sure put them to the test. I don't see any reason to suppose that anyone is ever going to find any treasure through the use of these Peralta stones.

Greetings Tropical Tramp,

Here is that little bit of a cryptogram I had posted, in entirety:

Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: (Matthew 7:7, first clue)
And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. (Luke 11:9)
Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. (Matthew 10:26)
For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad. (Mark 4:22)
For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad.(Luke 8:17)
For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known. (Luke 12:2)
John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven. (John 3:27 last clue)

Answer:

Jesus said, "Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you.
For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. [And there is nothing buried that will not be raised."] (Gospel of Thomas, 5)

Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all. [And after they have reigned they will rest.]" (Gospel of Thomas, 2)

Gollum, my problem is that you have said the un-known starting point is the whole problem (or the biggest) yet earlier in your own research you hit upon a starting point that works. Simply because you hit upon that spot early does not mean it is in-correct - remember Mel Fisher had actually been looking within a half mile of Atocha on his very first try, only to spend years searching the wrong areas before returning to the correct spot. If I were as confident of the validity of the stones as you, I would sure have plans for my next vacation - remember that old saw - "what is the worst that can happen"? Let me put it another way - what if your conclusion, even though early in your research is RIGHT? You are not the sort of person who is going to give up treasure hunting simply because one trip doesn't pay off, and that old system of "trial and error" really does work.

"Good judgement comes from experience, experience which generally includes a lot of bad judgements." --Cowboy wisdom

Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Oro,

Someone did find a treasure on the Stone Map trail. His name was Harry LaFrance. One man, that I know of, is still alive and he held the LaFrance gold bars in his hands. My Uncle did as well.

Don't know how familiar you are with the Superstition Mountains, but I made my first trip in forty-eight years ago. There are monuments everywhere! Most of my exploring was done in higher elevations with no trails at all. There were still monuments everywhere.

Everyone will now claim how "easy" it was to figure out the maps. In thirty-five years I have never met a single person who had a clue. Most of them were following someone else's ideas. By all means, I would encourage everyone to seek the end of the trail on Herman's Mountain.

Mike says he probably knows more about those maps than anyone alive. Perhaps that is true.

cj

 

[the blindbowman]

thats totally bs.. i know where the maps start and end .. .. and yes i have found the LDM and the IMHO the tayopa tunnle and the rock house and the hiden camp , and where the trail starts and ends .. i have seen the LDM in 1979 , anyone else seen it ? , i can prove i found it .....and i will get my permits ....

 

[cactusjumper]

BM,

Good to know you recognize "bs" when you see it. For awhile there I was having my doubts about you.
Anyone with a topo of the area can decide for themselves.

No doubt everyone is looking forward to your proof.....I know I am. Had you said 1997, I would have warmed to your story.

cj

 

[the blindbowman]

that looks like a sex toy lol .....


dude i got some closeing paper work on my farm today and i got to spend some time on the paper work .. sorry but life goes on , i hope lol !

 

[cactusjumper]

B,

Because the creator of the maps was an artist? Actually, the heart is the final location and was not found with the rest of the maps. Those who have said the maps were all found in the same hole are incorrect. They were also not found at the same time.

That means, to me, that the heart needed to be kept seperate from the rest of the map. Without the heart, the others are useless.

cj

 

[the blindbowman]

the latin heart insert points out the tunnle area and the other heart insert points to the pit area .. and the over all heart stones changes when the heart insert is in place if you know what your looking for !


is it better to have two hearts than none ?

 

[the blindbowman]

when is a key not a key?

 

[Oroblanco]

when is a key not a key?

When its a MON-key!

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

B E T H sheesh.

Tropical Tramp

 

[Oroblanco]

HEY now don't get me into trouble - I was just MON-keying around with the KEYS on the computer!

Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

Mike says he probably knows more about those maps than anyone alive. Perhaps that is true.

cj

Come on now CJ,

I would like for you to show me ANY TIME I ever said that! If you took the time to read anything that I posted about them, you might have noticed that the ONLY serious research I have done is 1949 to present. I also know that there are other people who have been at this a lot longer than I have. The only problem with that, is some of them formed an early opinion, and worked all those years trying to prove it. I think that's a little $hitty of you to make a remark like that about me, when I have NEVER done anything like that towards you. You told me some information, and asked me not to repeat it. Whether I thought it was correct or not, I kept it quiet, and let you reveal it in your own time. Is it because you are mad that I think there may be another solution to the stone maps? I can't think of any other reason for you to talk $hit about me.

I will say this. I am planning on being at the Garden Valley Hike, so if anybody would like to be rude or sarcastic towards me, please show up and do so to my face. It will be a great start to the day!

What I DID say, was that I was one of a handfull of people who actually took the time to do some serious legwork in researching the stone maps' modern history, rather than regurgitating what somebody else wrote in a book or magazine article (most often with wrong information).

Best,

Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike,

The reason I did not put the statement in quotes is because I was going from memory. Never a good idea, in my case. If I were mad at everyone who had another solution to the Stone Maps, I would never be able to smile

I am often a bit caustic in my comments, a habit I notice others also share. Don't take it personally. I like you, and your work. This is the comment I was thinking about:

"You got most of your facts completely wrong. Since this thing started on three separate forums, I have done more research into the stones than most humans." If you have done that, it would include those who are dead.
If that is true, you would probably know "more about those maps than anyone alive."

Not a direct quote, but making the connection does not seem far fetched. Considering your intelligence, IMHO, research equals knowledge.

The person you made those comments to, is one of the most knowledgeable Dutch Hunters around. He was researching this puzzle (probably) before you even knew it existed. I respect the research you have done, but you are not alone. Like every other researcher in this field, we all stand on the shoulders of giants.

My apologies for any offense. It was not done with malice.

Joe

 

[gollum]

No problems. I always liked you as well. That's why I was somewhat surprised by your statement.

OK, I will repost "Roger's" Post. My statement is EXACTLY CORRECT! If this person has been researching the stone maps since before I was born, he didn't do such a great job. Like you, I may have been kind of rude with my reply, but just about EVERYTHING he quotes as fact is wrong. He doesn't know that Travis Marlowe is Clarence Mitchell. He calls Travis Tumlinson "Richard G. Tomlinson". He uses Mitchell's (Marlowe's) book as fact, when we know it is not (take for instance, finding the stones over a two year period). Says that the stone maps were found in separate places. Says that the Horse/Priest Stone was the first one found. There is also the whole story about Tumlinson finding the hole in the saguaro (which has NEVER been stated by Tumlinson ANYWHERE). After rereading both posts, I went to the other forum and posted an apology to Roger. Why didn't you say something about that when it happened?

"Let's go back to some of the source material to see how the maps were really found (if they were found in Queen Valley) and what might have been the circumstances around their burial. Travis Marlowe (aka Robert Garman) wrote a booklet in 1965 titled "Superstition Treasures" that tells the story of the finding of the Stone Maps in 1951 by a friend named "Jack" a few years earlier. Jack turns out to be Richard G. Tomlinson from Oregon as we know today. Here are a few quotes from Travis's book scattered over pages 23 to 36:

FINDING THE FIRST STONE ON THE WAY TO TEXAS
"....Having plenty of time, he decided to look around a little. Driving back off the main highway for some distance, he stopped his car and walked out on the desert. He then decided to walk up on a small mound to see if he could see Weaver's Needle.
He stumbled on something projecting from the ground, turing around to see what it was. It was a rock. He was about to go on when he noticed some letters on the stone.
At first glance, he thought it was a fire brick. How would a fire brick get way out here? He tried to pick it up, it was solid. Taking another rock, he dug around it. More letters showed, words took form, he could not understand them, must be in a foreign language. He was now very excited. He dug faster, and finally the stone could be moved and lifted out.
.....On one side was a carving of what looked like a Priest holding a cross with figures, and a lot of symbols and writing he could not understand.
On the other side was carved a horse with more symbols, and writing. This stone was about 16 inches long, 2 1/2 inches think, and about 10 inches wide, irregular at the top, weighing approximately 25 pounds.

TWO DAYS OF SEARCHING THE SITE ON THE WAY BACK HOME FROM TEXAS
"He spent two days, however, walking over the desert, back and forth, looking for something, he did not know what. Finally, on a ledge of rock projecting up from the desert, he found carvings of signs and symbols.
They meant nothing to him. Then he walked by a large saguaro cactus and, at a glance, he saw that there was a hole drilled all the way through it, the height of a man's eye. Just for curiosity he stepped back and looked through the hole. He did not have to stoop or stretch, it was just the right height to look through, and to his amazement, he was looking at the very hole, about a quarter of a mile away, where he had dug up the treasure map...in the side of that small knoll.

FINDING THE TWO MAP STONES AND HEART STONE ONE YEAR LATER
"...At the lower part of the stone was carved "8 - N - P". The meaning of this he figured was 8 north paces.
Early the next morning Jack was over by the little hill. This time he used magnetic North, paced off eight paces and started digging. .....He sat down on the edge of the hole, the dirt gave way, and there --- projecting from the edge --- were two stones laid face to face.
.....
He dug down very carefully and about eight inches down he found something. Putting his shovel down, he dug with his hands. There was a flat piece of Chalcedony stone, carved into a shape of a heart, about one-half inch in thickness."

There is more, but you get the point.

Best,

Mike

 

[Aurum_]

gollum,

I think the quote is taken out of context.

The original poster said, " Let's go back to some of the source material to see how the maps were really found (if they were found in Queen Valley) and what might have been the circumstances around their burial."

From this point on, everything that is said is derived from someone elses source material, which the original poster refered to in his first sentence. The part about Travis Marlowe being Robert Garman and "Jack" being Richard Tomlinson is straight out of the sensationalized Paul Dean articles of the early-mid 1970's. I tried to point out these Dean articles earlier in this thread but those facts got lost in the personal attacks against me for pointing them out. The rest of the post is taken from various Marlowe material.

The only part of that whole section that can be attributed to the poster is his first sentence.

At least that is how I read and understand it.

Aurum

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike and Aurum,

You see what happens when you stay up too late playing on these Forums?

I stand corrected and, properly, chastised.

Everyone manages to misquote the "facts" now and then.....everyone. Many of us quote stories, as "facts". That's the nature of the LDM and the Stone Maps. I try to keep as many reliable (hopefully) sources on hand as possible.

Aurum is one of the "Giants" I spoke of. Not all of those folks would consider themselves my friend, but I respect each and everyone of them for their efforts to seek out knowledge and truth in these legends. You, Mike, are making that same journey.

Like me, there will be many who will question the evidence you find. That is not a personal attack on you, but an effort to "authenticate" new facts. Without questioning these "facts", the legends will become impossibly cluttered with.......Kino Glasses.

I have wasted a good deal of time trying to rebut meaningless attacks and comments which only create chaos in what should be a smooth/placid, level thought process.

Here is an (unsolicited) bit of advise:

Focus on your research and save your energy for that work. Leave your violent past behind, if possible, because as you get older it becomes your first choice, rather than a last resort. The most dangerous animal on the planet, is the man who controls and conceals his violent nature.

Roger is a man to respect. He does not make many statements that aren't preceded by measured thought. That comes from many years of picking his way through the minefields that comprise the legends of the Superstition Mountains, and a lifetime of practical experience.

Sorry for the sermon, but it's almost.......Sunday.

Take care,

Joe

 

[gollum]

No problem Father Joe

Mike

 

[Aurum_]

CJ,

You give me way to much credit, but I do agree with you on one thing, Roger is one of the most knowledgeable and level headed Dutchman enthusiasts one could ever want to meet.

Aurum_