The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

Do you think the Peralta stone maps are genuine, or fake?


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Travis Tumlinson was a cop in Hood River, Oregon. His father lived in Southern Texas. One Summer in 1949, when driving back to Oregon from Texas visiting his family, he and his wife Alleen, pulled into a rest stop along Highway 60 between Florence Junction and Apache Junction, Arizona.

Travis walked a ways from the car for a little privacy, to drain his lizard :D . After accomplishing his task, he noticed that he had a pretty good view of the Supers from where he was. He walked a little further up a hill to get a better view, and tripped over a rock. When he looked down to see what had tripped him up, he noticed the rock was unnaturally shaped. He dug out the rock with his hands, and brushed it off. He saw the word "DON" on one side, and a bunch of lines on the other. He took the stone back to the car and showed his wife.

He grabbed a shovel out of the trunk of his car, and went back to the spot where found the rock. He started digging up that area. He found three more stones (The Heart Stone, The Priest/Horse Stone, and the Upper Trail Stone).

Now, I should note here, that there is another good possibility where the stone maps came from. Azmula has researched this subject very well, and thinks that the stones were in fact, stolen from under a bed at the Mission in Arizpe. Due to the fact that Tumlinson's Father was a well known Treasure Hunter, I think this is a very plausible idea. Azmula seems to be pretty certain of this version, but I haven't seen the proof yet. I think he has it, but is being coy. While this does change how the stones came into modern existence, it in no way changes their authenticity. As a matter of fact, if Azmula's version of their finding is proveable, that makes me want to believe the story even more.

Now back to what we know. Tumlinson first went into Apache Junction, and put the stones on his front bumper, and began cleaning them off at a gas station. A guy walked up and asked him what he had there. Tumlinson said he had just found them. The guy said they looked like Treasure maps. Tumlinson got a little paranoid after hearing that, and drove to a friend's house (Charlie Miller). He and Charlie cleaned the stones off, to get a better look at what they had. At a later time, Charlie told Al Reser and Don Shade that while they were cleaning them off, they had to pull little roots out of the small grooves in the stones.

Even while living in Hood River, Oregon, Travis made several journeys into the Superstitions trying to solve the stones. I believe it was about 12 trips. Eventually, his health started failing, and he gave the stones to his brother Robert, who lived in Oregon as well. He also gave him a map of where he found the stones (it showed just North of Hwy 60, along Queen Creek).

Robert was retired and living on a small pension. He kept the stones under the bed in his apartment. He told people that one day he was going to find the Lost Dutchman Mine. He had secret stone maps that showed the way. Because he had so little money, he never had enough to go to Arizona to check them out. When he told his Landlord (Gene Davis), he found someone who was interested, and they became partners. They went into the Supers about four times before Robert's health started to fail. He gave the stones back to his brother Travis, and died not too long after.

Travis' health was still not good, and the stones sat for a while. Travis died in 1961, and his wife sold the stones to a longtime family friend (Clarence O. Mitchell) for $1200. Mitchell was the CEO of MOEL Inc. They kept the stones a secret for about three years. During that time, he supposedly sent the stones to a Professor Stephen Dana, at Redlands University, in Redlands California for testing to determine their age.

The story goes that Professor Dana concluded that the stone maps were "at least" 100 years old (this was in 1961 or 1962). I am close to finding out if this part of the story is true or not.

In the June 12th, 1964 edition of Life Magazine, the Stone Maps (or Peralta Stones as they were now called), became public knowledge. That was both good and bad for MOEL and Mitchell. Good, because it brought him investors for MOEL. Bad because it got them noticed by the Federal Government. The SEC (Securities and Exchange Commission) saw that MOEL had been selling stock in itself to fund their land acquisitions. The SEC then launched an investigation into MOEL. They asked the FBI to see if the stones were real or fakes (no doubt to see if they could add fraud to the charges of selling unregistered stock in the company).

We know this happened, because the Attorney General of the State of Arizona (at the time, he was just working in some legal capacity for the state), Robert Corbin was visiting the US Attorney's Office in Phoenix, and some people he knew there, who knew he was an avid Dutch Hunter, told him that there were FBI Agents in the building with the Peralta Stones. He went over, and struck up a converstaion with them, and asked what they thought. They told him that the FBI believed the stone maps were "at least" 100 years old. I have found out because the FBI didn't do any testing themselves. They found out about the tests done by Professor Dana. They interviewed him, then asked for and received a signed affidavit from him stating that in his professional opinion (as the head of the Geology Dept at Redlands University), the stone maps were "at least" 100 years old.

When the SEC finally brought MOEL to trial on September 30th, 1964, they were enjoined (stopped) from selling unlicensed stock. The trial was over in ONE day. Nothing very serious. Mitchell (MOEL) retained ownership of the stones.

When the company finally broke up, Mitchell had a second set of stones made. These were engraved like the originals. Mitchell kept two original stones, and two copies. He gave two otiginal stones and two copies to one of his partners. Eventually, Mitchell donated his set to the Arizona Mining and Minerals Museum (AL Flagg Foundation), where they sit today.

Some of this information is from Thomas Glover's book, and some is from personal research, and information given to me privately by individuals.

Hope this helps you out Springfield.

Best,

Mike
 

Hello friends,

Without wishing to ruff more feathers here, it is funny that Gollum would choose to mention the Beale codes and Lue treasure map as examples which have never been "proved" - for there is reason to believe the Beale codes are a fraud (yes there was a Lt. Beale with the Kearney expedition in the Mexican war, but he didn't find any rich mines) instituted by Mr Ward to make a profit selling his pamplets about them. If the Peralta stones are of the same ilk as these two examples, it is not necessarily a good thing.

Mike, don't lay this quest on the Peralta stones at my door :o - your thread on them pre-dates mine, as yours was posted back in July when some others had asked you about them, this thread we are debating in only got started in September. You were hooked well before ever debating them with little old me! ;D

It has been an interesting discussion to be sure, but even if they can be proven genuine, are they of any real use? I don't think the Tumlinsons were especially stupid or slow, and others have also tried using them as maps without getting rich - so....? Is it just a fatal flaw, such that if you 'know the secret' it is simple? Or is it just plain fraud? Is it worth an expedition to find out? ???

Not to play devil's advocate in favor of the stones but suppose they did lead to a site in Utah? Why should we expect the stones to be found further north? If they really came from a mission in Arizpe, wouldn't that be perfectly in keeping with the padres as the creators of them, and in keeping them safe? Utah does have some rich lost gold mines (the infamous Rhodes mines for example) that could have been the 'X' the maps lead to. I rather doubt the movie is true, as I would expect something to turn up at least in the California mining journal or one of the other mags if not on television - it seems rather suspect that they produced a DVD and are selling it. In fact I would suspect this may have been the whole purpose of their 'quest' was to make a movie and sell it for profits. Now they will probably sue me for slander, but they won't get much! :(

I don't know - my gut feeling is that these stone maps are not going to prove helpful in locating any lost mines or buried treasures. Fun yes, helpful, .....?
Oroblanco
 

I agree with most of that.

My original post does predate this one, but I was blissfully content in what I thought I knew, until you came along playing Devil's Advocate.

Once that happened, I saw what should have been simple to prove questions, and found that much of what has been sold as fact was either not true or unproven. THAT'S when I got hooked, so yes, it was you that got me into this. If you had just come along and said, wow, neat story, and left it alone, we would have both stayed blissfully ignorant of so much truth. It HAS been a good discussion, though. And it's FAR from over! If the Dana part of the story turns out to be true, I will find the affidavit. A copy of it will be in Prof. Dana's Papers, SEC Records of the Investigation and trial, or the FBI Archives.

So much crap. So little time!


Best,

Mike
 

Hi Mike!
Well my apologies for drawing you into a lengthy defense/debate of the stones. If I didn't care what you thought about them, I would not have bothered.

I just wish it wasn't 150 miles away!


Dang I can empathize with that problem! We live over 100 miles from the Superstitions, now wish we lived IN them. It is going to take almost as much 'prep-paratin' to go from here as when we lived 1000 and 2000 miles away. I don't know though, even if I lived at the very edge if that would help, for others have spent many years searching those hills without luck and I personally had no major success there. Good experience, pretty country but..little gold! :(

You ought to name that spot 'Golgotha' which means 'place of the skull'. ;) Next trick is to find a crucifix nearby...
Oroblanco
 

gollum said:
So much crap. So little time!

The most pertinent statement I've seen in ages regarding searching for a bona fide target.

If you're interested primarily in researching legends, acquiring a database of clues, speculating on the enigmas, writing books, etc., then there are plenty of opportunities to run in endless circles. It is a fascinating life-long hobby that promises to stretch your mind and legs. Anyone in this group who truly believes he will locate the target is hopelessly naive. IMO, any truth surrounding these things is seldom what we think.

If you're the type who is actually seeking to make a recovery of some sort, then you are in a very small group of fortunate people who were provided securely-held proprietory information about a target unknown to the public. You study the well-known legends (Peralta Stones, et al) only to glean a possible insight into your own true private quest.

By the way .... great skull rock!
 

Thanks Springfield,

That's not entirely true.

I don't necessarily look for specific treasure stories (usually). I like to see where there are MANY stories in one area. I don't take many treasure stories facts very seriously, but of there are an abundance of them in one locale, there may be a good chance. I have a couple of secret ones, but my best ones currently are Anza-Borrego Desert, Tumacacori Area (SoAz), and Joshua Tree National Park. What I do, is go to the area, and get out and start walking. I find the absolute worst mountains, and the hardest to get to places in them. I take a million pics. Make a million notes, and keep a sharp eye out.

Over the years, I have gotten VERY good at spotting things that aren't natural. It's not really hard. It's half science, and half art. Too much of either, and you miss important things.

Hey Mrs. Oro,

There are two litigation releases. One for the Announcement of Charges, and one for the announcement of resolution.

Best,

Mike
 

Okay, I'll bite; the skull rock, Mike - why do you conclude this is man-made? Are there tool marks on it? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco
 

HIO ORO, Gollum is going to get peeved at me, but I agree, it is a natural occurance. Notice the beginning of the similar anomaly just below the left eye (right in the picture) of another void / eye appearing or forming, almost exactly the same size and form..

Tropical Tramp
 

Morning Springfield: Clarify a bit please? Many have been found, the easy ones are long gone, the harder ones remain for obvious reasons.

However they are "all" easy once you unlock the key and find one.

Tayopa is a prime example where hundreds have searched throughout the centuries without success, in fact many died in the search, but in spite of this, the search still goes on ?? Fortunately for me, it has been found in spite of everything.

There were 7 other mines associated with Tayopa, I have closely located 4 others, there remains only the two near Caborca.

Tropical Tramp
 

RealdeTayopa said:
HIO ORO, Gollum is going to get peeved at me, but I agree, it is a natural occurance. Notice the beginning of the similar anomaly just below the left eye (right in the picture) of another void / eye appearing or forming, almost exactly the same size and form..

Tropical Tramp

I'm not peeved at you Jose (but you are mistaken). After metal detecting the surrounding area, we found a ton of chisel shards (you know as you chisel something hard, how the tip curls around and breaks off). The eye sockets were ground smooth, and the stones used to do it were laying nearby.

Best,

Mike
 

HI MI Buddy Gollum "YEAH"?? Possibly someone took advantage of a naturally occurring anomaly and played around, a sort of graffiti thingie, but I personally doubt that they constructed the skull, merely polished it up a bit.

But then as I have mentioned ------JC-------hmmm.

Go get the Peralta's mines, I have given you the clue.

Tropical Tramp
 

HI, interesting no?
Tropical Tramp
 

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=gollum ]
I guess you think that this is a naturally occurring rock formation as well?
***************
Yep, the same geological conditions occur in the cleavage planes which are parallel to the original of your pointy rock. As it was uncovered or exposed, it gradually rotated to it's present position.

This was done by nature, not man


Tropical tramp
 

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Funny Guy Jose,

Actually, I don't doubt that the skull may have originally had a similar shape, and was altered by somebody at some time. That is my point. That is why there are smoothing stones and chisel shards there. Does it denote a treasure or mine? Not nevessarily. Buddy said that miners would make skull monuments like that to scare the Indians away. Well, there are several old mines in the area. There are also two tribes of Indians that lived nearby. Makes sense to me. You can't really compare the two concavities you have circled. First of all, your red circle's lower half encompasses a similar type rock that is not attached to the main rock. It is about three feet in front of it. The eye socket is smooth inside, while your lower depression appears to have broken out over the years (natural weathering maybe). The lower cut is also much longer, and might have been to make the upper cheek bone on that side. All I know for certain is that it is a shaped boulder.

Not one of the three rocks that make up the bird are from that formation. Your strata lines on the body are wrong. The main support for the head is a flat rock worn smooth naturally (while sitting on the ground or in a wash). There is another rock that is made of the same material as the body, but was formed to support the head. The head is of a rock that has been broken to form a shape. The body was moved to that spot from an outcropping about 200 feet to the East of where it sits currently. The head was hauled up from an area about a quarter mile down a wash where a similar stone outcropping is.

Look carefully. You will see the rocks from the pictured formation that were used to prop up the body rock. There are NO similar rock types anywhere near this formation. What you are looking at in the foreground is a quartz vein blowout.

I will bet you a nice steak dinner that it is man made (and I don't mean burro steak)! ;D ;D ;D

Mrs. Oro,

Please post a picture of this similar formation. If it is really that similar, it is not natural. I fail to understand how you can think that three dissimilar types of rock in a very well made formation can be natural.

Here are a couple of known bird monuments that are less easily recognizeable than this one:

plumbirdbook1ff7.jpg


Best,

Mike
 

I feel Mike has often been a little too aggressive in his interpretation of some of the landscape features that he's posted on the TN forum (that Indian-profile mountain in SoCal comes to mind - a natural feature, IMO), but this bird cairn certainly looks manmade to me. Of course, we'd have to examine it in person, but judging from the appearance of the top two slabs and their interfaces, it seems fairly obvious that they were placed atop the outcropping. To me, this is a great example of an unmistakable sign - not a subtle one that you need to squint at to see. I'll ante in on that steak dinner challenge too. By the way, Mike - another great picture.
 

Gollum, I am reporting you to the civil liberties peeps for discrimination against purty burros.

As I previosly mentioned, I can only go by the photographs, you are there and have a far clearer picture to go by plus an actual 3 -D configuration.

In so far as the photographs go, I will stick by my impressions, which if I were at the actual spot, could easily be changed.

Keep it up my friend., including the insults and casting doubts upon my saintliness and being always correct, here or in the other posts -- hehhehehehe.

As far as the dinner goes, I will consider it a semi honor to buy you, and spring. a DE LUX Hamburger regardless of any old cottin pickin rocks.

NO. no mailorders.

Tropical Tramp
 

Hello friends,

Would you say this is a natural formation Mike?
231953270_1d1e6f3686_m.jpg

Is this a cairn?
236352040_abe4201484_m.jpg


A carved window?
232962187_6d9d86ec1e_m.jpg


All of these are natural formations. Here are some more:
chirhr.jpg

95bryce.jpg

g2.jpg


I can't say absolutely that the skull rock is natural OR man-made, based on a photo, which is why I asked if there were more clues that Mike saw or found on the spot that made him conclude it was man made. The southwest is loaded with strange, odd geological features that look like birds, animals, even rocket ships etc almost like looking at clouds in some cases. In fact unless I found tool marks ON ANY strange rock formation in the southwest I would conclude that it is natural. Think of the amount of time it takes to sculpt out carved stones, or effort to build huge, stacked stone cairns etc it takes a great deal of time and effort - something gold miners are not likely to expend on ANY markers, much less make huge ones that might attract attention!

Put yourself in the place of these old time miners - if you were leaving markers for you to return, would you make anything BIG or spend a great deal of time and/or effort on them? Especially in hostile Indio (Apache/Yavapai) territory?

Mike can say with greater confidence whether the skull rock is manmade or not, having been there - he does seem to find lots of the interesting rock formations. I now wish I had taken more photos of those I have seen. However based on the photos, I would lean toward natural as the answer, including the "bird" - if anything was done to the "bird" cairn, someone MIGHT have added the TOP stone, only. The rest has the appearance of natural forces entirely.

Oroblanco
 

Postscript - here is an example of what I am convinced IS man-made, carved stone:
TPS1042.jpg


or more
TGR1120.jpg

ASC1743.jpg


In my own limited experience, when men get to carving stone, and spending that much time doing it there is NO mistaking it for anything naturally caused. Now I expect to hear that it was Mexican peons doing the carving? Here are some carved by un-educated Mexicans:
PHI1574.jpg
TCA1206.jpg
TCA1169.jpg


There are another 'class' of stone formations made by man, NOT carved, known in the Holy Land and Sahara as "Jackal scares" but also seen in the American southwest (rarely) which are stacked stone, with a larger stone near the top placed so as to look like 'arms' from a distance, the purpose being exactly the same as that of scarecrows and crows, only to keep away coyotes from livestock. I can't find ONE photo of a jackal scare, have one in a bible study book but can't scan it. I could probably build one and try to get a photo, if you don't know what I mean by describing alone. Okay I found one that is virtually identical to a jackal-scare or coyote-scare, here it is - these are found all over the North country, put up by Inuit and Eskimos, called "Inukshuk":
istockphoto_1911337_inukshuk_4.jpg
208227.jpg


A hollow in stone is quite often caused by a pebble being caught in a slight depression, the effects of water making it rotate around in the hollow and makes a deep hollow eventually, for us to puzzle over. I think that if these formations like the 'skull' and 'bird' were indeed man-made, we would not have ANY doubts about it, for there would be clear details carved into it.
Oroblanco

PPS Mike, I found where I had made an issue out of the use of the word "massacre" I was referring to the photo of the Peraltas, which had the term "massacre" on it, which being in quotes I took to be not against the meaning of massacre but that the tale of the massacre was itself being NOT PROVEN so hence the use of the 'quotes' around the word. You will see this occasionally in crime reports, where someone "alleges" that something happened - not that the term doesn't mean something but that it is alleged.
 

Jose,

How can you say that about me? After all, wasn't I the one who suggested your canonization? You hurt my feelings!SNIFFSNIFF

I don't believe that the secrets of Tayopa will be lost with you. I see one of two things happening:
1. You will live forever (just to spite me)
2. I will get the time to come down for a visit, and you will reveal all!

Oro,

If you look carefully, you will notice in EVERY one of your pics of all-natural formations, that all of the rocks in those formations are made of the same type of rock. The bird monument consists of three distinctly different types of rock (NONE of which are from that particular outcropping. Each one had to have been moved there).

The bottom photo from the iStock website is man made. Who made it, and why it was made (other than for the picture) is unknown.

Here are some other man made monuments. They are not all from California (some of you will know where some are from):

An OWL Monument

owlcs7.jpg


Here is the face of Christ (Cut from natural rock to show the location of a mineshaft)

jesusleftsmzk5.jpg


Here is a 1000 or so pound balanced pointer, that was cut into an isosceles triangle, and hoisted atop a large base rock, that points directly to another monument just over the ridge.

pointer1smallqr8.jpg


This is what is known as a compass stone (a large flat bottomed stone placed on top of three or more basketball sized rocks.

anzacompass1jj0.jpg



Springfield,

You say SOME of my interpretations. Which ones other than Indian Head Peak (that is it's real name). For those of you who don't know what Springfield is talking about, here is a picture of the peak (I took it from one spot on the Anza Trail):

smallindianhead2sq7.jpg


This is a 6000 foot peak just West of Borrego Springs, Ca. I don't know whether you believe that this type of monument was never made, or that this particular one is not one. If you think that the Spanish didn't make mountain monuments, please look and read:

indinahead1ol2.jpg


Mountain monuments were made for a couple of reasons. Most notably to guide travellers to a safe route around known hostile Indian Territory. I have been to the top of this peak, and sat and hung my feet over the chin. The way these monuments were made was like this: A ridge or peak that lay in the direction needed, and was of the correct general shape was first chosen. Due to the lack of iron tools, the dirt was dug away, and all exposed rock that needed to be removed, was done so by building a large fire under the outcropping. Once the rock had been well heated, it made the rock very brittle, and easy to break off. Usually, the only bedrock that had to be removed was to form the eye, nose, and chin. The Pascua Yaqui seem to think it is real. This monument sits in a place where if it was there when De Anza went by, it would have been easily seen.

Best,

Mike
 

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