The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

[Oroblanco]

Hello friends,

I guess we can't conclude much about the found saddles, just another Superstition mountains mystery. I don't think it is safe to say they are American and not safe to say NOT Mexican either. Perhaps the saddle never had a horn - especially if it was originally military. We can say that it looks like it was patched and repaired at least twice (the riding saddle) so must have been in use for some time.

Tropical Tramp, your rented mule and saddle with the loose nails gave me pains just thinking about it! My sides are still ache-ing! I apologize for laughing about it, it really wasn't funny when you had to use that danged thing and really could hurt you. I don't know about which is smarter, mule or horse - only had three mules, and they were pretty smart but when they got to killing my own dogs I didn't care to have them around anymore. I have had horses learn to open gates, doors, even get the top off of a feed barrel that was latched on (still haven't figured that one out) even an electric fence gate. One young colt we raised used to follow me to go hunting, if he saw you come out with a rifle or shotgun he was worse than any hunting dog you just could not get him to stay home! Firing a shot only made him go look for what he expected to find dead! (He was an Appaloosa, we were raising them at the time.)

I got lucky early in the season and bagged a decent buck so hung it in the barn to age a few days before cutting it up. I thought maybe the young colt would start getting used to the smell of blood this way. I didn't think about it, and didn't see the horses come near the barn.

This colt was quite a character. We found him literally covered with blood one morning and washed his head all over, figured he must have gotten hurt on something but couldnt' find any wound on him. This happened a couple days in a row. One morning, we noticed something moving in the barn - the deer was moving around! I had a moment of 'gee what the heck - I am sure I shot him and gutted him too!' - so went out to see what was making the deer move. It was that young colt, with his head shoved into the body cavity swinging the dead deer around like a toy! He was covered with blood, and looked horrible!

I have heard how horses are no good for pack animals as they can't stand the smell of blood etc but this boy never read the book. I would tell another story about hunting with him but no one would ever believe it! The Perceron stallion we sold just before moving here even helped me build fence - and not just by hauling the stuff around, I would put the boards up to the posts where they were to be nailed, then he would bite the board and hold it there while I pounded the nails in! I wish I had gotten some pictures of him helping build fence, as I am sure few would believe it.

Those danged horns on saddles though, I have a real dislike for them - Joseph you were smart to keep your head and managed to get out of the situation because you were smarter than the mule but boy that horn can really hurt you seriously. I saw a horse roll with my mother on it's back (the particular horse was a genuine knothead, one I would have sent for Alpo without even blinking, really dangerous) and if her saddle had a horn it would have really done a lot of damage. As it was, she hardly got a bruise. The horn may be 'great' for roping cattle or other livestock, but they are just plain dangerous otherwise. Lots of people who are 'new' to horseback riding grab onto that horn like it is a handle the whole time they are riding, which is a bad habit too. If anyone is reading these posts and considering using horses or mules to get into the back country, they are GREAT in many ways (sure beats hauling everything on your back) but please consider picking a saddle that has NO horn. It might be a tiny bit more difficult to get into the saddle from the ground, but it is way safer for you.

All this talk has sure gotten me a good case of the 'fever' again. Have managed to go poke around here locally a bit recently, and definitely going to do some more SOON. Sorry for the off-topic stories.
Oroblanco

 

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[DEMON]

i agree saddle horns were meant to tie rope on usally sinch would be forward or dobble sinch horns nowaday's so you have your name ingraved it i wouldn't expect to see horn on pack mule with 3/4 sinch

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

side remark, to unravel the stones and the Dutchman story one
MUST consider all evidence, including equipment. The saddles are an intimate and important part. With these short side stories we are establishing our bone fides to comment on them.

Mexican Mule saddles and many horse saddle used a single cinch, i.e. a single strap to secure the saddle to the animal. Unforunately a Mule has a deep swell on it's tummy, so even if you cinch it down, it still will work forwards or bckwards and loosen, so one is constanly recinching. I often wondered how they escaped bare back riding Indians?

Tropical Tramp

p.s. On those twisted leather stirrup straps, sheesh . I had ended wih a bit of a walleyed toe out walk on my right leg from one of my aircraft accidents. That strap twisted my leg in, and after a short while, it hurt like h---. However after a few days it had worked like a traction splint and my leg was straight again but, sheehs how it hurt to do it. I couldn' t walk after getting out of the saddle each night, and since I traveled alone I had no one to help with the camp and setting the mule out for pasturage ---- I generally had open land free for grazing... WHERE were YOU when I needed you? Would even have appreciated Gollum. hehehe Definitey Beth would have been a wonderful asset.


Tropical Tramp

 

[gollum]

He must not have minded them being in Glover's Book.

Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

WHERE were YOU when I needed you?

I wish I had been there with you buddy - I know how that is when things are going wrong and you are miles from any kind of help. Beth is pretty good with horses, (better than me!) I would not have thought to just cover up their eyes to get a load of fresh, bloody meat on to a spooked horse for example.

Mules are built kind of funny in other ways too - the three we had I did some work with, and breaking them to ride felt really odd compared to a horse, like you are riding down hill all the time. The little black 'molly' (female) had a habit of suddenly stopping, drop her head to the ground at the same time her arse shot up and I would be setting on the ground in front of her nose in less time than it took to tell it. After we got that Australian saddle (with bucking rolls, the swell in front of your leg) she finally gave that habit up as then she could not dump either of us.

Joseph, do you use hobbles, picket lines, or just turn them loose at night with no hobbles? Which do you prefer?
I am not crazy about picketing (either with a line or a pin) because if they get spooked in the night you can have one h-ll of a mess or wreck, plus they can't forage so you have to either bring hay/grain or spend time cutting it for them, if you turn them loose with no hobbles you can spend all day trying to catch your stock the next day, hobbles have drawbacks too if there is a lot of brush they can get tangled up in it. What we usually do is use front hobbles only (so they can defend themselves with their back feet) but even so, a horse can walk a long ways in eight to ten hours. It is well worth some extra time spent 'making friends' with your horses or mules (or burros), and get them to come to you when you call, like a pet dog (give them treats to bribe them) as it can be nice when you are in the back country NOT to have to spend half your time hunting for your stock.


Thanks Randy for checking it out on the saddles! I plan on stopping in there when (if) we get up that way. I have a couple of names that I had heard was the pair who found the pack saddle, Aloysius Hurley and Sean O'Connor. According to that story Hurley and O'Connor picked up rich gold ore found by the pack saddle, which netted them a nice chunk of cash so they hunted for where the ore came from, but could not find the source. It is not critical to the Peralta legend that the saddles must be Mexican, perhaps they bought their tack in AZ? Plus the Sawbuck type pack saddle has been around a long time, not sure if a Mexican sawbuck would look that much different from an American sawbuck.

Perhaps the saddles were photographed for Glover's book, prior to the Bluebird obtaining them? Or maybe he just doesn't want some kind of controversy over them?

Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

Well he never said I couldn't publish pictures of the saddles, but did holler at me for photographing something else, so I've decided to play it safe. They're all blurry anyway..

Should have used a cell phone camera. Pretend to be talking and snap, snap. snap!


Mike

 

[DEMON]

riding with or without saddle np
falling off np
it's the landing that hurts

 

[gollum]

That's right,

Just like falling off a building. The fall never hurt anybody, it's that sudden case of SS Syndrome one get's at the bottom (Sudden Stop Syndrome), that gets you.

Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[=Oroblanco

Joseph, do you use hobbles, picket lines, or just turn them loose at night with no hobbles? Which do you prefer?
***************
JI, I staked her out with a 50' line. This gave her a nice radius for grazing in the mts. Although l had to get up a few times at night to move her to a new grazing spot. Incidentally NEVER come up behind a sleeping mule on a cold frosty moonless night! sheesh, I lost a perfectly good shirt that way, just once taught me better.

Hobbles were usless with her, she could run faster than I
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ It is well worth some extra time spent 'making friends' with your horses or mules (or burros), and get them to come to you when you call, like a pet dog (give them treats to bribe them) as it can be nice when you are in the back country NOT to have to spend half your time hunting for your stock.
*************

SOOO true , since she could outrun me I decided to have her come to me. I tried sugar, salt ec., etc., but nothing worked until I found that she loved CLEAN toilet paper. I only had to wave several sheets in the early morning sun and she would come trotting, gently take it, then flop her big ears back, close her eyes and chomp away, a pretty picture.

However this habit is why I am still a legend in the isolated back high country and canyons.

Once, after I had been on the trail for a few weeks, I spotted a small store/ranch in a pretty little valley so headed for it since I was running short on supplies . As usual the front door was crowded with men with nothing to do, and as I entered the store they fell silent, obviously checking me out.

I shortly finished getting my stuff from the limited stock, and as I was walking out of the front door, I remembered that I was running short of the Toilet paper for my mule , sooo, without thinking, I turned around and in a loud voice said " Hey I forgot the toilet paper for my mule".

It must have been ten minutes before they commenced to pick themselves up off of the floor where they had been rolling around in hysterical laughter. To this day I am still known as the gringo that w---- his mules A-- with toilet paper.

sheehs in such ways legends are born, however it broke the ice and the word quickly got around and everyone was extremely friendly after.©

Tropical Tramp with the red face

k back to the stones

 

[Oroblanco]

LOL oh my gosh, so THAT is the legend with the mule! That is going to be tough to let go of now!

I wonder why she got to liking toilet paper? Mules are funny animals! Thanks buddy for letting us know how the legend came about!
Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

OK, so here's the latest on the Professor Dana Story,

The Archive secretary for the University of Redlands finally got ahold of Stephen Dana's widow (Jane Dana). Asked if she knew anything about the stones. She said she didn't recall, but would be more than happy to correspond with me. Said her daughters (all six of them) will be home for Thanksgiving, and she would ask them. She would also go through her late husband's papers, to see if there was anything there.

Slowly but surely.

Best,

Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Go Go Go-llium. Excellent work

Tropical Tramp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Ladies, Gentlemen: Assuming the stones are actually genuine maps, has anyone ever given a thought that they may be deliberately misleading? I.e. designed to lead you "past" the actual mines into the Superstitions, when the actual spot lies in the basic entrance?

Tropical Tramp

 

[Oroblanco]

they may be deliberately misleading?

HOLA Tropical Tramp! That is my conclusion - regardless of when they were made, they lead to no treasure and ARE deliberately misleading. The fact that Tumlinsons were unsuccessful in their use of the maps to locate treasures or lost mines is fairly strong evidence of deliberate flaws in the maps. The creator of the maps may even be still around, laughing his butt off at US trying to work out his fraud.

Oroblanco

 

[gollum]

We will see.

Just because people haven't been able to figure them out, in no way proves them to be fakes!

There are several maps that nobody knows where they lead (Lue Map, Beale Codes, and many others).

Best,

Mike

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

[=gollum
Just because people haven't been able to figure them out, in no way proves them to be fakes!
There are several maps that nobody knows where they lead (Lue Map, Beale Codes, and many others)
Best,Mike
**************
If we assume them to be genuine, then as I suggested, the stones were designed to lead you "past" the mine/mines into the Superstitions, so the actual key must lie in the first map only, no?

In other words, they were designed to lead you "AWAY" from the "X".

Tropical Tramp

 

[gollum]

Not necessarily.

Without knowing for certain the starting place, no one can know for certain the ending place!

They could pertain to anywhere from Texas to California. United States or Mexico.

They most likely are of The superstitions, as they match the area VERY well. What is necessary, is to find the KEY. The KEY wil tell you where to start. IF they are authentic, I believe the KEY is in the misspelled words, and math equations.

Best,

Mike

 

[gollum]

NOPE!

Do you know what the rest of that story is?

At first glance, it seems possible, but the story get's a little too out there for me. I won't buy the video. If there was REALLY anything to it, don't you think AT LEAST ONE TV channel would do a story on it?

I believe it's possible that the guy found a cave and a similar stone, but I highly doubt they are related.

See, with the stone maps, you have to take a few things on faith to believe in them. That version of the story streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetches my faith a little too much. After all, I'm not even 100% certain the stone maps are authentic!

I think that if the stones had anything to do with Ytah, they wouldn't have been either found in Southern Arizona, or stolen from under a bed in a mission in Arizpe. They would have been fartjer North.

Best,

Mike

 

[Springfield]

Just because people haven't been able to figure them out, in no way proves them to be fakes!

There are several maps that nobody knows where they lead (Lue Map, Beale Codes, and many others).

Hmmm .... And just how do you feel these "treasure maps" happened to fall into the hands of total strangers? And then, remarkably, into the public domain? Anyone wanna buy some beachfront property here in New Mexico?

 

[gollum]

Just because people haven't been able to figure them out, in no way proves them to be fakes!

There are several maps that nobody knows where they lead (Lue Map, Beale Codes, and many others).

Hmmm .... And just how do you feel these "treasure maps" happened to fall into the hands of total strangers? And then, remarkably, into the public domain? Anyone wanna buy some beachfront property here in New Mexico?

Thanks Randy,

That's mostly correct, but MOEL Inc. was incorporated in 1960. A good while before buying the stones from Tumlinson's widow. What they were originally going to do, was buy land, and lease the oil and mineral rights out to mining and oil companies (Hence the name Mining, Oil, Exploration, and Leasing). The stones came along after the corporation was formed.

Springfield,

Before you come to a conclusion about something, you might want to do a little more research into that subject. That's what got me started with this thing (Thanks again, Oro). In the last few months, I have done more REAL research on this subject than most anybody around. By REAL Research, I mean contacting government entities mentioned in the stories, contacting individuals, and institutions. I think one of the few people who have actually researched the evidentiary part of the stone maps more than I have is Azmula.

Hmmm .... And just how do you feel these "treasure maps" happened to fall into the hands of total strangers? And then, remarkably, into the public domain? Anyone wanna buy some beachfront property here in New Mexico?

I guess some history is again in order. Next post, I will give what I know to be the story as of now.

Best,

Mike