The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

[lunatic]

Good, good stuff Ryan. Feed us more.

 

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[markmar]

Morning John,

We all create our own illusion, sometimes we just see what we want to see.
It's a common phenomenon.

Great day for a walk.

Agree . And goes more worse when someone is thirsty ... for fame .

 

[JohnWhite]

Morning John,

We all create our own illusion, sometimes we just see what we want to see.
It's a common phenomenon.

Great day for a walk.

Well EarnieP...I have been delusional my entire life...lol...

IF anyone chooses to believe my claims...It is up to them...

I have mentioned on many occasions...I could care less...

IF I had to prove my claims...I am quite certain that I could...But I do not feel nor believe that I need to prove any of my claims to anyone...hehehe...

As I have told Cubfan...As far as I am concerned...He can toss the samples that I mailed him into the garbage...I am just stating that the samples that I mailed him are from the area that I am claiming to be the area depicted in the psm's...Oh well...Life will go on...

 

[Tump&Dean]

Ryan

Maybe you are right and I am wrong , but this only in the future would be revealed .
You are another one who found out where the trail map leads . But which trail , that in the stone maps or the other in the paper map ?
Maybe a trail from a map that we didnt see yet.

I think getting into a contest of who is right and who is wrong isn’t going to achieve amiable results.

I can say that I am not using the trail maps as the main source of information.

 

[markmar]

I think getting into a contest of who is right and who is wrong isn’t going to achieve amiable results.

I can say that I am not using the trail maps as the main source of information.

If so , I believe you are on something . Maybe a different story about a different target . Always , every target has its own trail .

 

[JohnWhite]

I believe that I can give ya'll a little background on the area of which I speak...The old man who took me to the area, God rest his soul, informed me that a person was working said area at one time...And the person showed him circular discs which he proclaimed were platina...At the time I thought nothing of it...I believed that such a claim was preposterous, seeing the rarity of platinum and the quantity of platinum the person revealed to the old man at the time...I believe the old man who took me there was being completely honest...And I too believe that the person working the little hole in the was was honest as well...

As I have mentioned...I have been playing with the ore for over 20 years now...And in that time...I have met quite a few low life scumbags who assure me that the ore that I was given from said area is worthless...Yet they were quick to inquire where said ore came from...And I being a clown as well have given many silly answers to the same question...

I have subjected the crushed ore to many little tests...And according to said little tests there is definitely platinum in said ore...And many of the little signs that I have seen reaffirm my beliefs that said area is one of the areas mentioned by a one Antonio de Ulloa...Plus many of the treasure maps that I have seen seem to match said area to a T...hehehe

So...What else can I say..."If it looks like a duck...And quacks like a duck..."Yep...And many of ya'll here might say that I have found a duck...rofl...I guess that you can say that I believe that I have simply found a simple duck...And I will continue to state...It is where one finds it...

 

[deducer]

Arthur,

There are quite a few photos of the rocks - on the same film roll - that feature grey stones. The same color as the “wall of carvings” in the video Lynda recently posted.

Further - in “Challege for Superstition Gold” they are also described as grey in Travis’ own words. Family testimony as well as testimony of Stockdale townsfolk verify their appearance as grey and roughly the same size as an iPad Mini.

From there - Travis would painstakingly work on creating other versions to stratellically place as many as 5 full copies throughout the mid to western part of the country. We know where at least some of these are today. Each version is unique unto itself - as it would be nearly impossible to recreate anything on that medium, identically.

This information will become public to the treasure hunting community and the rest of the world in due time.

Thanks in advance for your patience.



Homar,

You are slightly correct in some of your recollections. Bluntly - I took major issue with the public story, and as presented I found it to be unrealistic and full of fallacy. For me, it took meeting the family and seeing original photographs and other materials to change my stubborn mind. I was the first non-family member to see this information. The evidence is quite compelling.

Hi Ryan, and welcome back to this forum.

The five grey stones, the size of an ipad, each, are very interesting to me. Have you see them, or at least pictures of them?

 

[deducer]

I firmly disagree with you that the reader of the trail stones cannot find where the trail starts without the priest / horse map. I have found that location. The terminus of stone map trail, combined with information intentially left off by Travis, leads the viewer to a beautifully crafted site. At that site there is a box filled with church vestments.

I will also disagree that the stone maps lead to a mine, they do not. I have found the terminus of the stone maps and that source has been verified emphatically by members of the Society of Jesus. It is not a mine, but a cache of Jesuit vestments.

Fascinating-

What do you mean by a "beautifully crafted site"? Care to elaborate?

 

[Tump&Dean]

I believe that I can give ya'll a little background on the area of which I speak...The old man who took me to the area, God rest his soul, informed me that a person was working said area at one time...And the person showed him circular discs which he proclaimed were platina...At the time I thought nothing of it...I believed that such a claim was preposterous, seeing the rarity of platinum and the quantity of platinum the person revealed to the old man at the time...I believe the old man who took me there was being completely honest...And I too believe that the person working the little hole in the was was honest as well...

As I have mentioned...I have been playing with the ore for over 20 years now...And in that time...I have met quite a few low life scumbags who assure me that the ore that I was given from said area is worthless...Yet they were quick to inquire where said ore came from...And I being a clown as well have given many silly answers to the same question...

I have subjected the crushed ore to many little tests...And according to said little tests there is definitely platinum in said ore...And many of the little signs that I have seen reaffirm my beliefs that said area is one of the areas mentioned by a one Antonio de Ulloa...Plus many of the treasure maps that I have seen seem to match said area to a T...hehehe

So...What else can I say..."If it looks like a duck...And quacks like a duck..."Yep...And many of ya'll here might say that I have found a duck...rofl...I guess that you can say that I believe that I have simply found a simple duck...And I will continue to state...It is where one finds it...

Hello Mr. White,

I will admit, I have not been an up to date reader on Tnet for quite some time — however, if you will please admit my query as to what your intentions are.

I respect that you feel you have solved the maps that Travis Tumlinson carved in Stockdale Texas, and with your findings, you feel you have a substantial source of platinum and you have been sitting on this platinum horde for, what my limited reading into your posts suggest, 20 years.

20 years is a long time to be sitting on something that has a value, in today’s market of $935.10 per ounce. I am always mystified by the far too often repetitive story of “I have found the solution” but I’m not going to do anything about it, except go on the internet and talk about it incessantly.

It seems as if you are looking for funding, at which point you were told you were not allowed to do that. Fine……

But all of this begs the question — if you have found all this platinum, why are you not doing something about it? With all the posts you have made about your find, what exactly are you looking for?

At $935.10 / ounce — you don’t need an investor…..you just need a wheelbarrow. …or perhaps not even that, maybe just a U-Haul van if you can get close enough.

I can respect that you do not want to share your location — but you are willing to send out samples. Are you also willing to post a photograph? To prepare for a reply that you do not know how to post photographs, will you allow Cubfan to post a photograph of what you sent him in the mail? (flashbacks of the Unabomber here, Cubfan is a brave guy!)

If your intent is just to keep repeating your story, like a record on repeat, then that will be the answer. Except……I don’t believe that is what you have in mind. You are trying to convince someone(s) of something….otherwise, you wouldn’t be posting so much in such vague and ambiguous terms.

People love a good story, myself included, but as the old adage says, a picture says a thousand words.

Respectfully,

-RG

 

[Tump&Dean]

An iPad Mini - don’t want any confusion. And yes - as mentioned, negatives of the photographs are in the possession of the family.

Elaboration on the site - it’s beautiful and methodical - like a drawing of Michelangelo.

 

[deducer]

People love a good story, myself included, but as the old adage says, a picture says a thousand words.

Respectfully,

-RG

Wouldn't you think that also applies to proving the existence of those small grey stones? They have been rumors for a long time now, and one picture would settle that right here and then.

It would also act as an incentive towards attracting an audience for your documentary project- in that you reveal that you do, indeed, have something of substance.

 

[Cubfan64]

Ryan - I can't post a link to another forum from here, but if you type "Bilbrey's Crosses" into a Google search, follow the 2nd link that comes up to a location you know well. There is a story by Jim Hatt about the stones Bilbrey supposedly found near Tortilla as well as a couple photos from the Sept. 20, 1978 Apache Sentinel. You had mentioned that you had only seen drawings or tracings of Bilbrey's stone crosses and the Latin Heart so thought I'd let you know there was a photo of them (not the Latin Heart - never seen a photo of that one). I'm not saying anything about the authenticity of them or anything - just dropping this out there.

Also if you don't mind me asking... quick question... you said something earlier about the end of the Stone Map trail leading to a cache of Jesuit vestments. I'm not asking for details or anything, but curious if your definition of vestments is the same as mine? I always understood vestments to be religious clothing or articles that were worn during religious ceremonies. Are you also including things like chalices, church ornaments, etc...?

As regards John W - don't get your hopes up that you'll get clear, concise answers from him. If you've read even a half dozen of his posts, you'll realize quickly that it's the same information over and over and over again just written in a little different way or organization each time. I'll be happy to post photos of the small rocks he sent me if he agrees to it but truth be told, since his last couple posts to me I'm in no hurry to go out of my way to ask my coworkers to take time out of their day to take a look at them. I'm a person of my word so I'll do it eventually.

Lastly - you do know that eventually your coming back on a public forum to start talking about your research and story about Tumlinson's stone maps is probably not going to end well right?

Good luck nontheless

 

[Old]

>>Wouldn't you think that also applies to proving the existence of those small grey stones<<

Sigh, No Arthur. It is not remotely the same. What RG shares is for free. He hasn't asked for contributions.

But while we are on the subject..........haven't YOU been working on a project for around 5 years. Lets see some of your footage. Whatcha got?

 

[vastterrain]

"Elaboration on the site - it’s beautiful and methodical - like a drawing of Michelangelo."

lmao...i would expect nothing less from a snake oil salesman!

 

[Tump&Dean]

Wouldn't you think that also applies to proving the existence of those small grey stones? They have been rumors for a long time now, and one picture would settle that right here and then.

It would also act as an incentive towards attracting an audience for your documentary project- in that you reveal that you do, indeed, have something of substance.

Arthur,

That is a fair question and one that I anticipated when I typed my response to Mr. White. The major difference being, I am not looking for an investor, nor am I looking for collaboration or the blessing of the treasure hunting community. The things I have shared, I have shared for free — but have cost me 10’s of thousands of dollars.

You of all people on this forum, as well as DUSA and others, have the full grasp of what goes into production. As I have mentioned previously, the films you have done are stunning, dramatic, award winning and worthy. Would you whimsically present information, on command, on the projects in which you have invested in both financially and emotionally? Would your backers allow you to do so without repercussion? Would your credibility for future projects be the same, if you bent at the will of a poster on an Internet forum?

I feel that I have shared quite a bit, Arthur. The most infamous photograph of the Stone Map saga, “The Bumper Photo”, was released in high definition for the viewing pleasure of all that are interested. By me releasing that photo, we have eliminated the old legend of it being taken at a gas station in AJ. I have also shared at least one additional and never before seen photograph of one version of the stone maps shortly after their creation. I have posted many photos of Travis, to put a face with the name and pages from Travis’ manuscript. That is enough, for now. I am quite generous and have tremendous respect for those that came before me, but my allegiance is with the Tumlinson and Leasman families as well as the production company and network behind our series.

As you know, again better than anyone on this forum, the amount of time and effort that goes into creating a well thought out and provocative series is beyond time consuming. People rave about working with you, your dedication and professionalism. Would they feel the same way if you shared intimate details of your project prior to public release?

Let’s also discuss audiences. As you are aware, viewership is calculated by the millions of viewers. With all due respect, and also being generous, lets say there are 200 people that frequent this site. Its safe to say the treasure hunting community is not my target audience. If every person on this site chose to not watch our series — or go out of their way to trash talk it at every opportunity, it will never amount to the folks that choose not to watch because of religious affiliations, a lack of interest in the topic, or the damage done to our precious mountain range by a capricious previous series.

I will offer this, however. When and if you make it back to Arizona, I’d be happy to show you in person in trade for information on the series that many have told me you are working on in regard to the Superstition Mountains and related sagas. Let’s hope our schedules connect.

-RG

 

[JohnWhite]

Hello Mr. White,

I will admit, I have not been an up to date reader on Tnet for quite some time — however, if you will please admit my query as to what your intentions are.

I respect that you feel you have solved the maps that Travis Tumlinson carved in Stockdale Texas, and with your findings, you feel you have a substantial source of platinum and you have been sitting on this platinum horde for, what my limited reading into your posts suggest, 20 years.

20 years is a long time to be sitting on something that has a value, in today’s market of $935.10 per ounce. I am always mystified by the far too often repetitive story of “I have found the solution” but I’m not going to do anything about it, except go on the internet and talk about it incessantly.

It seems as if you are looking for funding, at which point you were told you were not allowed to do that. Fine……

But all of this begs the question — if you have found all this platinum, why are you not doing something about it? With all the posts you have made about your find, what exactly are you looking for?

At $935.10 / ounce — you don’t need an investor…..you just need a wheelbarrow. …or perhaps not even that, maybe just a U-Haul van if you can get close enough.

I can respect that you do not want to share your location — but you are willing to send out samples. Are you also willing to post a photograph? To prepare for a reply that you do not know how to post photographs, will you allow Cubfan to post a photograph of what you sent him in the mail? (flashbacks of the Unabomber here, Cubfan is a brave guy!)

If your intent is just to keep repeating your story, like a record on repeat, then that will be the answer. Except……I don’t believe that is what you have in mind. You are trying to convince someone(s) of something….otherwise, you wouldn’t be posting so much in such vague and ambiguous terms.

People love a good story, myself included, but as the old adage says, a picture says a thousand words.

Respectfully,

-RG

Well RG...I am not looking for any investor/investors...And at $935 an ounce...You people are so funny...

I am not in any rush RG...I believe that my paranoia has gotten the best of me...So I have no idea IF I will ever be able to return to the area mentioned...

I am convinced that the area is the area depicted in the psm's...IF the psm's are fakes...Someone knew the area that I am talking about very well...I won't go into specifics and I will continue to be vague about the area...Because IF some of the grandiose treasure tales are about the mining area...IT may potentially be worth a very pretty penny...

I really don't believe that I need any investors RG...And many can claim to have been there, as I am doing...But how many have the little ore that I have given to Cubfan, even though I was tempted to give him some beautiful diatomaceous earth...lol

As for pictures...I really don't have a very good camera...IF Cubfan does run the ore...He can give you some pics of up to 500,000 magnification...It doesn't matter...Even such thorough examinations won't reveal exactly where the ore comes from...Especially IF there is nothing that IT can be compared too...

So IF Cubfan does exam the ore in question...I have no qualms of him sharing his teams results with any of ya'll...

Sure the ore can change my life IF I ever decide to return to ITS origins...Or I can always try to find me another diamond or two...Heck...Or more...rofl

As for getting close to the site the ore came from RG...I would need a very good mule, which I do not find appealing...Or possibly a very good dirt bike...Only time will tell...

I guess my tale is a broken record...For I will not reveal any more valuable tidbits about said ore's origins...Like I have stated...Maybe in 20 years or so...Who knows

Ed T

 

[Tump&Dean]

Ryan - I can't post a link to another forum from here, but if you type "Bilbrey's Crosses" into a Google search, follow the 2nd link that comes up to a location you know well. There is a story by Jim Hatt about the stones Bilbrey supposedly found near Tortilla as well as a couple photos from the Sept. 20, 1978 Apache Sentinel. You had mentioned that you had only seen drawings or tracings of Bilbrey's stone crosses and the Latin Heart so thought I'd let you know there was a photo of them (not the Latin Heart - never seen a photo of that one). I'm not saying anything about the authenticity of them or anything - just dropping this out there.

Also if you don't mind me asking... quick question... you said something earlier about the end of the Stone Map trail leading to a cache of Jesuit vestments. I'm not asking for details or anything, but curious if your definition of vestments is the same as mine? I always understood vestments to be religious clothing or articles that were worn during religious ceremonies. Are you also including things like chalices, church ornaments, etc...?

As regards John W - don't get your hopes up that you'll get clear, concise answers from him. If you've read even a half dozen of his posts, you'll realize quickly that it's the same information over and over and over again just written in a little different way or organization each time. I'll be happy to post photos of the small rocks he sent me if he agrees to it but truth be told, since his last couple posts to me I'm in no hurry to go out of my way to ask my coworkers to take time out of their day to take a look at them. I'm a person of my word so I'll do it eventually.

Lastly - you do know that eventually your coming back on a public forum to start talking about your research and story about Tumlinson's stone maps is probably not going to end well right?

Good luck nontheless

Vestments, as explained to me, are all items used during mass. This includes vessels / apparel / accessories / etc

 

[Cubfan64]

Vestments, as explained to me, are all items used during mass. This includes vessels / apparel / accessories / etc

Thanks for clarifying

 

[Silverchair]

Hello Marius,

Before we all get started down a path that history has proven to often times result in heated and disparagingly negative discourse, I want to preface by saying that it is not my intention to try to convince you of anything. I think you, as well as anyone else, has the right to follow their own path when it comes to a story that has been up for public scrutiny since 1964. My comments are not made to persuade and not meant to change your rightful beliefs. I am interested in having friendly conversations, but leaving negativity out of it. If we can all agree to that, then I think we can have some intelligent and meaningful conversations.

I fully understand and respect that many believe in the Latin Heart and the Bilbrey crosses. I have said many times that I do not. The reasons I do not believe in them is because they are yet again an item of legend, just like the Cursum Perficio map. There are no photographs of them, just drawings. On that same token, I also understand that I am holding things close to my chest as well, with promises of a future release......however, I have shared the original negative of the infamous bumper photo which proves it was taken in Oregon as well as another photo of one version of the stones sitting on newspaper leaning up against a house in the fruit farm that Travis worked at - to show as much as I can. In fact, I have shared more in regard to the story of the stone maps than anyone has, ever. Before I came around, no one even knew what Travis looked like, and his book was a legend, at best.

If someone could supply a photograph, a negative or anything outside of a drawing, then I would be curious to learn more. The biggest issue I take with the items you mention is they fit into a set of stones that never touched the hands of Travis Tumlinson. The rocks Travis carved would not have allowed the Latin Heart / Bilbrery crosses to fit into the corresponding places on the maps in the museum. This is where I shut down, and rightfully so. I am not someone who is led by faith - I am someone led by facts and hard evidence, in which there is absolutely none for the items in which you speak. It is far too convenient that the items you speak of fit into a set of rocks that Travis Tumlinson never saw. That is quite telling in itself.

I firmly disagree with you that the reader of the trail stones cannot find where the trail starts without the priest / horse map. I have found that location. The terminus of stone map trail, combined with information intentially left off by Travis, leads the viewer to a beautifully crafted site. At that site there is a box filled with church vestments.

I will also disagree that the stone maps lead to a mine, they do not. I have found the terminus of the stone maps and that source has been verified emphatically by members of the Society of Jesus. It is not a mine, but a cache of Jesuit vestments.

I understand that you have not been to Arizona, but I would highly suggest you do. There is a bigger legend than the stone maps in these parts....and that legend has to do with a crate full of extremely valuable firearms that were left behind by the Calvary, in a cave. These firearms would arguably be worth hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of dollars. Given that, the caves have been searched in all of Tonto National forest. On a nice day out here, you are almost guaranteed to see a would be treasure hunter climbing a steep ridge to explore a cave he found with a pair of binoculars.

I was off Hewitt Station road over this past weekend, and I would estimate there was at least 300-400 people. The weather is great and families are having fun - riding quads or target shooting. In all the miles I have logged in the Superstitions, I have yet to run into a treasure hunter.....instead, I find Canadians (mainly) that are here on holiday. They are usually retired and enjoying the warm weather of Arizona. Exploring and photographing the beauty of the Superstition range.

You, as well as anyone else, have the absolute right to believe in the Latin Heart / Bilbrey crosses, treasure caves and rich mines......I, as well as the family, and the intentions of the creator of the stone maps will vehemently disagree. Please do not take that as discouragement, but continue your quest....but please understand, until proof is found, your theory is just that....a theory. I have proof, I have shown proof to trusted friends.

I applaud your efforts in investing so much time and dedication into a story that, for me, is in my backyard.....but I will also say that Google Earth is not going to help you in the slightest. You need to be here, you need to see things with your own eyes......it makes a world of difference. I am sure that all locals will agree with me in that regard.

I find it curious that, in my interpretation, the most firm believers in stone maps - the ones that want to dissect the most minute of details, are the same folks that have never visited the Superstition Mountains.....

Make that commitment Marius, you owe it to yourself, dear friend.

Hi Mr Tump and Dean

I'm a firm believer of the Stone Maps, I also been there many times. Now I see You and Old pushing a agenda over and over again, As if your salesmen with fuller Brushes or Kirby perhapes. So when is the series gonna hit the air, I'm interested in it. But the one thing that bothers me is the lack of Mentioning Alice. She is the one I would be interested in
Speaking about her Father not any of the others. She holds stead fast her father found the Stones and they weren't all the same color. Now the one closest to Travis at the time in mention has been skipped over by You for some reason. Explain Please! She is the most important one in this.

Mr. Tump. Don't call her Alice she prefers Jamie

Silver Chair

 

[somehiker]

I don't find it implausible, but as I've said many times, it just seems to me to be too laborious a process to replicate the pockmarks down to the last detail onto another stone, and for what? Those pockmarks do not add anything.

While they may not ADD anything, they do match the appearance of what can be seen on the rock face to the upper right side of what I was focused on and taking so many photos of that last time we were out there. It's also white to grey in color and heavily pock-marked AND it looks like slabs of rock have been removed or fallen away from just below.
If you have some high res photos of your own, shot from below and head-on to that area, you should be able to see the much larger "original" in exact proportion and layout , and also upside down and backwards as it appears on the LTS as positioned below the upper trail stone with the "trail" lines matching. So it appears as though one could only read those three letters as "DON" if they were hanging upside down from the ledge above....haha....strange! Could be the "DON" indicates the nature of what lies beyond the small round opening at the center (small hole into big hole ?), and the cross indicates the religious ? significance of what lies behind the heart.
With regard to the chest of vestments, IMO, that would likely have been part of the cargo carried by Keller's ill-fated entrada/mission to the Moqui in 1743.



I've explained my thoughts and theory about all of that, in much greater detail and with more references, in previous discussions.