The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

[coazon de oro]

you say travis was not even capable of carving the stones?..what makes you say that?

Howdy Dave,

Most of us can carve on sandstone, what I said Travis was not even capable of doing was creating them.

Bear with me because I have been having mouse problems . Every time I have to right click, things go haywire. When I right click to go back a page, sometimes it takes me back two or three pages. I have problems dragging things with the mouse also since it requires the right side button. That's why I have not been posting much, and now that I post and lose a post, I try to copy and paste, loosing the spaces between the paragraphs.

The only stone that we knew Travis had carved is the Galleon/Treasure Chest stone. That's why Garry Cundiff used it to try and prove that Travis had carved the PSM's. What he ended up proving without knowing it, is that Travis copied the lettering of the PSM's to create his G/TC stone.

You see on his G/TC stone, Travis showed that he did not know Spanish at all. Words can be looked up and translated, but that does not help you understand the language. He even mixed both languages because Spain is an English word. His words don't make much sense because he butchered the gender of the Spanish language. While it is very hard for many non-Spanish speakers to see this, it stands out like a sore thumb for fluent Spanish speakers. Even our friend Mike who claims to know Spanish missed it because he is not fluent in the Spanish language.

The PSM's that he found like he said, may have a few misspelled words, but the gender is right even in El Mapa which is an exception to the rule of gender. Besides all this which is very obvious, Travis was not capable of burying the stones where he found them. Again any body can bury stones, but they were buried in a very precise location that I have proved to others by pm, and for this you will have to wait until I can make it public.

Homar

 

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[EarnieP]

<And; for those of you who don't think Travis was a "real" police officer please take note of the final photograph which was taken just prior to his death. Understanding comes with context..... We strive to correct the context and from it get understanding.> Old


Probably been rehashed before, but how did a felon, legally, become a firearm toting certified Police Officer in 1950's, early 60's Oregon?

No laws against it at the time?
Was not a certified Officer?
Didn't tote?
Wasn't legal?

Not that it makes a bit of difference concerning the Stones, just curious.

 

[azdave35]

<And; for those of you who don't think Travis was a "real" police officer please take note of the final photograph which was taken just prior to his death. Understanding comes with context..... We strive to correct the context and from it get understanding.> Old


Probably been rehashed before, but how did a felon, legally, become a firearm toting certified Police Officer in 1950's, early 60's Oregon?

No laws against it at the time?
Was not a certified Officer?
Didn't tote?
Wasn't legal?

Not that it makes a bit of difference concerning the Stones, just curious.

back then before the days of computers it probably would have been fairly easy...most law enforcement agencies didn't communicate well with each other

 

[EarnieP]

back then before the days of computers it probably would have been fairly easy...most law enforcement agencies didn't communicate well with each other

Not even a quick phone call for a check-see of your potential new Officer?
Maybe, but we're talking 1950's, not 1850's Wyatt Earp.

 

[azdave35]

Not even a quick phone call for a check-see of your potential new Officer?
Maybe, but we're talking 1950's, not 1850's Wyatt Earp.

you never know...they may have been hard up for help and didnt care....or he had a friend on the force...i bet if a guy checked into it you'd find alot of felons on the force back then

 

[Cubfan64]

lol...How did you know that I am bald azdave JK...I still have a fairly full head of hair...

You won't see me pulling it out because I have been there azdave...And I could solve the mystery for all of you...But I won't...IF ya'll knew what I know about said location...

Ya'll can wait for Cubfan's verdict on my little silver ore from said location...That is IF he will be truthful about the composition of IT...I believe that the ore that I submitted to him is from the location depicted in the PSM's...Maybe I may reveal all that I know about them in the future...But I would not hold my breath...hehehe

Listen John - I offered to have my coworkers take a look at your samples on their work time for no cost to you. I'm not doing it because I give a damn about the analysis - in fact I couldn't personally care less what the results look like, I just find it interesting and I thought you were interested in the results as well. I really don't appreciate coming here and seeing posts questioning my honesty and integrity. If this is the direction all this is going to go, I'll send the samples right back. I'm not going to set myself up to have you or anyone else complain if by chance the results don't come out to be anything more than an interesting but worthless mineral sample.

 

[cactusjumper]

When I first got interested in the Stone Maps, I believed the story......as presented. I was convinced by what I found on the ground and how the Harry LaFrance cave of gold bars worked into the theory. What I found on the ground was solid matches to the maps in exacting detail.

Over the years, I followed the evidence provided by Garry and others, and became convinced that the maps were an accurate hoax perpetrated by someone(s) who were more than familiar with the terrain of the Supe's and the legends from those mountains. The latest efforts by some have done nothing to change my mind on that conclusion. To the contrary, they have strengthened my beliefs.

While some have derided those who still believe, they continue to keep posting and making this subject (The Stone Maps) the most prolific on Treasure Net, as well as on many other sites.

Something for newbies to keep in mind is this quote from the Sept. 15 issue of the Apache Sentinel: "But which superstition caused Al Morrow's death? The one about the will-of-the-wisp, or that other superstition, which has already lured countless men into its embrace with the enticing promise of Dutchman's gold, only to reject them as bodies and bones?" D.J. Mathews

I doubt things will change.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[JohnWhite]

Listen John - I offered to have my coworkers take a look at your samples on their work time for no cost to you. I'm not doing it because I give a damn about the analysis - in fact I couldn't personally care less what the results look like, I just find it interesting and I thought you were interested in the results as well. I really don't appreciate coming here and seeing posts questioning my honesty and integrity. If this is the direction all this is going to go, I'll send the samples right back. I'm not going to set myself up to have you or anyone else complain if by chance the results don't come out to be anything more than an interesting but worthless mineral sample.

I could care less what you do with the samples I have sent to you Cubfan...I don't care IF your coworkers have already run the ore or not...I too can give a damn about the analysis...I don't need you or anyone else to tell me what I have or don't have...I was just stepping up to the plate so to speak...You can toss the samples in the garbage for as far as I am concerned...I was almost tempted to send you some beautiful diatomaceous earth samples at the last minute but I changed my mind...lol

Like I have stated on numerous occasions...I have nothing to prove to you nor anyone else...Even though I believe that I have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt any and all of my claims...I have solved the riddle of the psms...And said ore is the piedras de inga mentioned by antonio de ulloa...

And IF anyone cares to search for IT...You are all more than welcome to search for IT anywhere and everywhere in North America that ya'll would like...I have dealt with your kind in the past...And I really don't care what ya'll do...I am certain that you are not the first nor will you be the last to run comprehensive tests on my little silver ore...Ask me IF I care...

IT is where one finds IT...

Have ya'll found IT yet

 

[azdave35]

I could care less what you do with the samples I have sent to you Cubfan...I don't care IF your coworkers have already run the ore or not...I too can give a damn about the analysis...I don't need you or anyone else to tell me what I have or don't have...I was just stepping up to the plate so to speak...You can toss the samples in the garbage for as far as I am concerned...I was almost tempted to send you some beautiful diatomaceous earth samples at the last minute but I changed my mind...lol

Like I have stated on numerous occasions...I have nothing to prove to you nor anyone else...Even though I believe that I have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt any and all of my claims...I have solved the riddle of the psms...And said ore is the piedras de inga mentioned by antonio de ulloa...

And IF anyone cares to search for IT...You are all more than welcome to search for IT anywhere and everywhere in North America that ya'll would like...I have dealt with your kind in the past...And I really don't care what ya'll do...I am certain that you are not the first nor will you be the last to run comprehensive tests on my little silver ore...Ask me IF I care...

IT is where one finds IT...

Have ya'll found IT yet

the plot thickens

 

[wrmickel1]

Wow John, your tail is twisted tighter then a pigs in a butcher shop, loosing up there tiger.
Cubfan could prove your ore to be the best on plant earth. But Dave would never believe it anyway so why you let it ruffle your feathers. Relax I kinda like your illusions of grander.

It makes it real. And Daves Looney!

So welcome to psycho town, Daves the mayor.

You and Dave got a talent, an't much but it makes me laugh.

Relax. Wrmickel1

 

[Bavarian Joe]

Not even a quick phone call for a check-see of your potential new Officer?
Maybe, but we're talking 1950's, not 1850's Wyatt Earp.

Wouldn't have bothered. Travis was fortunate to have lived in a time where a man's past didn't travel with him. If you seemed like a decent bloke, people took you at face value.

And who said he was a cop? IIRC, he was a security guard. He took a training course that was put on by a police department. And I think that had something to do with his job running the migrant labor camp.

 

[JohnWhite]

Wow John, your tail is twisted tighter then a pigs in a butcher shop, loosing up there tiger.
Cubfan could prove your ore to be the best on plant earth. But Dave would never believe it anyway so why you let it ruffle your feathers. Relax I kinda like your illusions of grander.

It makes it real. And Daves Looney!

So welcome to psycho town, Daves the mayor.

You and Dave got a talent, an't much but it makes me laugh.

Relax. Wrmickel1

lol...I am loose Wrmickel1...Anyhow...I have nothing to prove...I believe my little silver ore speaks for itself...rofl...

IT is multilingual...IT speaks: English, Spanish, French, Greek, or any other language treasure hunters speak...lmao...And IT is where IT is...Though I will keep that little location to my self...

 

[Old]

Homar, I don't recall you trashing anyone really. You speak your mind. Sometimes forcefully. So do I <g>. Sometimes I agree and sometimes I don't. I've valued your opinion on a number of occasions and, in turn, argued a point with you to the point of boredom to many here.

I understand and accept that's your perception of what happened. I get that. I remember it differently.

Yes, the person of which you speak did early on have serious doubts about the stones and Travis. More along the lines of the miraculous story of the "find" of the stones and where. He's outspoken too. I don't recall him calling Travis a con artist but perhaps you are right. I just don't remember it. I could wrong. Is that unreasonable given what we knew at the time? It was the accepted narrative of the day. Its unreasonable now given what has surfaced. But yet it persists.

As I recall his original introduction to the saga involved a different matter best left undiscussed at this point. But debunking it, not Travis, was his original project.

I too doubted Travis was a full fledged police officer early on. (Listen up Earnie) Until I knew of the governor's full pardon issued at the behest of, and on written request of, the County sheriff. And; seeing Travis' badge and credentials. All of which were brought to light through the efforts of the one of which you speak. Known to the people directly involved but unknown to the TNet community.

I think he's been proven right about some of his original hesitations. In the alternative, he's seen there is substance to the base of the story, and uncovered details previously unknown. Is that a wrong thing to do? He went, he saw, he listened and he learned. He found there was much more to this than he originally thought. I think he's told of his change of mind. I know I have learned much along the way and had to re-evaluate.

Did I or anyone else say that the old Spanish wording wasn't on the prototype? Nope; don't think so. There is little in the way of language on the trail stones and what is there is highly suspect on when it appeared.

He hasn't deleted anything on this site since his departure. He can't, even if he wished to do so. He has no access to it. Whatever remains, is gone or is changed is not done by his hand or mine. We/he do not have that ability. Different site, at a later date; yes. A request to delete the forum section was made to those power-that-be for the reasons I stated earlier. They graciously agreed. Which site, I might add, was created after the fact of what you are speaking of. I stand by my reason. Not all are culprits, some have been more than fair and open. And Lord knows many have been patient. But some are determined to be as offensive as possible. Surely you see that. Perhaps not, we will just have to disagree on that point.

He, with the help of those involved, have sorted through mountains of truths and untruths. Even when publicly cast as the villain of all things PSM he's been upfront in crediting those who went before him, went with him, and helped along the way since. Has it been a bumpy path? Sure thing. Is there more to learn? Perhaps so. I'm open to it. Such is the nature of most things. It has been and continues to be an epic journey. To look back where we started and look now at where we have come and what has been learned is extremely gratifying. Perhaps not to some but to me it is.

 

[azdave35]

Wow John, your tail is twisted tighter then a pigs in a butcher shop, loosing up there tiger.
Cubfan could prove your ore to be the best on plant earth. But Dave would never believe it anyway so why you let it ruffle your feathers. Relax I kinda like your illusions of grander.

It makes it real. And Daves Looney!

So welcome to psycho town, Daves the mayor.

You and Dave got a talent, an't much but it makes me laugh.

Relax. Wrmickel1

if cubfan tested john's ore and it turned out to be filthy rich i'd definitely believe it...now if he says the stone maps led him to where the ore came from...thats where i have my doubts

 

[JohnWhite]

if cubfan tested john's ore and it turned out to be filthy rich i'd definitely believe it...now if he says the stone maps led him to where the ore came from...thats where i have my doubts

I must be honest azdave...The stone maps did not lead me to the area that the ore came from...I had discovered said area long before I ever even knew of the psm's...It was only after studying the psm's and one of my little holes in the wall that I came to believe that the area in question is the area depicted in the psm's...And the Tayopa map...And a few other treasure tale maps...

But like I have mentioned...I am not out to prove my claims to anyone...IF ya'll choose to believe me...That is a choice each of you must make...I could really care less...I am certain that I could prove my claims IF I had to prove it in a court of law beyond a shadow of a doubt...But I am certain that IF such a scenario were to ever take place...I would pull an Oliver North...

I would never reveal what I may know to anyone who did not ante up...lol...And even IF anyone were to ante up...I would still be hesitant...rofl

 

[EarnieP]

Listening, loud and clear. Very nice.

 

[deducer]

Homar, I don't recall you trashing anyone really. You speak your mind. Sometimes forcefully. So do I <g>. Sometimes I agree and sometimes I don't. I've valued your opinion on a number of occasions and, in turn, argued a point with you to the point of boredom to many here.

I understand and accept that's your perception of what happened. I get that. I remember it differently.

Yes, the person of which you speak did early on have serious doubts about the stones and Travis. More along the lines of the miraculous story of the "find" of the stones and where. He's outspoken too. I don't recall him calling Travis a con artist but perhaps you are right. I just don't remember it. I could wrong. Is that unreasonable given what we knew at the time? It was the accepted narrative of the day. Its unreasonable now given what has surfaced. But yet it persists.

As I recall his original introduction to the saga involved a different matter best left undiscussed at this point. But debunking it, not Travis, was his original project.

I too doubted Travis was a full fledged police officer early on. (Listen up Earnie) Until I knew of the governor's full pardon issued at the behest of, and on written request of, the County sheriff. And; seeing Travis' badge and credentials. All of which were brought to light through the efforts of the one of which you speak. Known to the people directly involved but unknown to the TNet community.

I think he's been proven right about some of his original hesitations. In the alternative, he's seen there is substance to the base of the story, and uncovered details previously unknown. Is that a wrong thing to do? He went, he saw, he listened and he learned. He found there was much more to this than he originally thought. I think he's told of his change of mind. I know I have learned much along the way and had to re-evaluate.

Did I or anyone else say that the old Spanish wording wasn't on the prototype? Nope; don't think so. There is little in the way of language on the trail stones and what is there is highly suspect on when it appeared.

He hasn't deleted anything on this site since his departure. He can't, even if he wished to do so. He has no access to it. Whatever remains, is gone or is changed is not done by his hand or mine. We/he do not have that ability. Different site, at a later date; yes. A request to delete the forum section was made to those power-that-be for the reasons I stated earlier. They graciously agreed. Which site, I might add, was created after the fact of what you are speaking of. I stand by my reason. Not all are culprits, some have been more than fair and open. And Lord knows many have been patient. But some are determined to be as offensive as possible. Surely you see that. Perhaps not, we will just have to disagree on that point.

He, with the help of those involved, have sorted through mountains of truths and untruths. Even when publicly cast as the villain of all things PSM he's been upfront in crediting those who went before him, went with him, and helped along the way since. Has it been a bumpy path? Sure thing. Is there more to learn? Perhaps so. I'm open to it. Such is the nature of most things. It has been and continues to be an epic journey. To look back where we started and look now at where we have come and what has been learned is extremely gratifying. Perhaps not to some but to me it is.

I still don't understand his motivation for carving or "recreating" another set of the trail stones down to the last pockmark.

If he was secretive about those Stone Maps, creating another set would just increase the chance of theft, loss, or accidental discovery by another party.

If he was intent on running a scam (e.g., making money), the addition of the hundreds of pockmarks on the back of only one trail stone makes no sense and would not motivate a buyer. Again, as I mentioned before- too laborious a process, and all con artists prefer shortcuts.

 

[EarnieP]

JohnW, I know the title of this string includes the words "Cruel Hoax", but come on!

 

[JohnWhite]

JohnW, I know the title of this string includes the words "Cruel Hoax", but come on!

lol...I do not believe I am being cruel EarnieP...I believe that I am being rational...hehehe...

IF you held the answers to some of the greatest mysteries of the treasure hunting world...Would you just give them away and risk having some other treasure hunter just waltz on in and steal your thunderI am not seeking fame nor fortune...rofl...Well...Maybe a little fame and fortune...

Maybe one day, like I have mentioned, in twenty years or so...I may reveal what I know unto the world...Heck...One may never know IF my little area is the true long lost original Mt. Nebo...But I doubt such a thing is possible...We may never know...I guess that only time will tell...

I do not believe my claims to be a hoax either EarnieP...I honestly believe that one of my little holes in the wall to be the area depicted in the psm's...The ore that I sent to Cubfan is from said area...And as I have mentioned...I could really care less what his verdict on said ore is...I know what I know...I have been playing with said ore off and on for over 20 years...And I know quite a bit about it...hahaha...

 

[JohnWhite]

Here is a little food for thought... https://minerals.usgs.gov/minerals/pubs/commodity/platinum/mcs-2016-plati.pdf ...I wonder how much one of my little holes in the wall might be worthHmm...

I am still content eating my taquitos de frijoles and barbecue chicken thighs...Heck...Yesterday was a good day...I had a great barbeque, with beer and all, for less than $20...And I have plenty of chicken left over to snack on...Life is good...