The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

[azdave35]

lol...I do not believe I am being cruel EarnieP...I believe that I am being rational...hehehe...

IF you held the answers to some of the greatest mysteries of the treasure hunting world...Would you just give them away and risk having some other treasure hunter just waltz on in and steal your thunderI am not seeking fame nor fortune...rofl...Well...Maybe a little fame and fortune...

Maybe one day, like I have mentioned, in twenty years or so...I may reveal what I know unto the world...Heck...One may never know IF my little area is the true long lost original Mt. Nebo...But I doubt such a thing is possible...We may never know...I guess that only time will tell...

I do not believe my claims to be a hoax either EarnieP...I honestly believe that one of my little holes in the wall to be the area depicted in the psm's...The ore that I sent to Cubfan is from said area...And as I have mentioned...I could really care less what his verdict on said ore is...I know what I know...I have been playing with said ore off and on for over 20 years...And I know quite a bit about it...hahaha...

if i remember correctly you said you were on this forum a couple years ago under another name ....how about revealing your other name?

 

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[JohnWhite]

if i remember correctly you said you were on this forum a couple years ago under another name ....how about revealing your other name?

I believe that I have already revealed the name that I had used in the past azdave...But IF you have not read said post...The name I used in the past was Ed T I believe...I had also used the name bluedeer I believe...I had deleted all of my post for personal reasons...There are a couple of posts due to some quoting my posts...Oh well...I don' think that it really matters though...

 

[Old]

Okay, Deducer. I get it <g> You find the ability to replicate from a prototype too far fetched.

Well; if that's true then the following story must be the story you are buying into. Either you buy into this hook-line- and sinker or everything that paid private detectives later found is a lie, everything written of Dr. Davis, the Hainers, and Travis' friends and associates from Oregon are all lies. Half the population of Stockdale is sun struck, and ALL of the family including the Saintly family matron, now past, are bald faced liars. Them's your choices. What shall it be?

Travis found the stone maps just as legend says. All in a pile on the same day, or; over a 6 months period. Take your pick, matters not. He took those to Oregon. He marveled at his luck in stumbling upon some of the same type things his Grandfather had acquired back in the good ole days. Danged if they weren't very similar. What luck! He remembered the stories he heard from his Grandfather of bandits, and ole Dons of Mexico, of treasure found and treasure lost. Of encrypted maps and symbols. Of narrow escapes and other tales of dark canyons and lofty ridges of times past.

On first finding the stones, he stopped in a car wash near Florence to power wash them (actually just use a hose)and to photograph them on his bumper. Not satisfied with that he washed them again in Texas and again when he arrived home in Oregon. Those things were dirty. Might as well take that same bumper photo again just to see which looks best.

Somewhere along the line, as luck would have it, he also found a smaller set of the exact same subjects, but of a different color. He carried those to Texas where they remained on undisturbed display for years. Viewed by 100's if not 1000's. After all it was a public open for business enterprise.

Remembering how much fun he and his pals had carving on stone when he was a lad, he took up the hobby again. He even practiced different techniques. Just for effect, mind you. He was turning out treasure related stone carvings on a pretty regular basis and was viewed by many as he worked. But all that shouldn't be confused with any effort to replicate those pesky Peralta Stones that keep turning up. No.....don't think anything of that. Its merely a coincidence.

Imagine his excitement when he found yet another set which remained with another family as porch ornaments and door stops. His luck was so good why not share? Heck; they were popping up everywhere. Right?

Low and behold; danged if another set didn't turn up. He loaned those to his Uncle who showed them to all his friends far and wide. He attracted quite a crowd. His Uncle used them to solicit funds to carry out searches in Arizona. He searched all over the bars and cantinas from Globe to Phoenix. The Uncle was the toast of the town in Apache Junction and elsewhere and could keep the locals mesmerized for hours just with a photograph. And who's to say what an actual look at the genuine rocks might bring? The story got better with every round of adult beverages. Imagine what could be bought with a Doctor's wallet at one's disposal. My, my.

The Uncle's set should not be confused with the set Travis shared with his friends in Oregon on many evenings over the years going over the different possibilities of where the trail might lead.

Imagine, two Tumlinson households in Oregon and 2 in Texas combing over the clues with genuine artifacts, genuine un-replicated originals each and every one. Just like peas in a pod they were. And those peas just happened to match up with Ole Pegleg's hoard of maps he acquired in the rough and tumble territory of AZ, S.TX, NM and Mexico years before. Wonders never cease.

Not being too happy with his Uncle's escapades, Travis retrieved ole Bob's set and dashed his hopes for fame, fortune, drink and song. But not to worry he still had his photos to share and could still spin a good yarn.

Travis stashed Bob’s stones under his bed along with the first four tablets. I imagine he had to reinforce the floor joints of his cabin at this point. It was getting pretty crowded under there.

Although written in humor, that's the nut shell of what you have to accept as plausible if you don't believe there was ever any replicas made. One part of this story may fail, even two. But not all of it. THAT is not plausible. For all to fail it would have to be a total fabrication involving well over a 100 people, many of which never knew each other, didn't have a dog in the fight, and lived in completely different sections of the country. They would have had to have collaborated in secret over time to create a narrative where each of their independent stories are supported by the other.

Do you find this more plausible?

 

[captain1965]

I believe the stones in the bumper photo are the same stones in the Superstition Mountain museum.
Go ahead and call me crazy.... lol

 

[somehiker]

I believe the stones in the bumper photo are the same stones in the Superstition Mountain museum.
Go ahead and call me crazy.... lol

That's certainly a possibility, given the far better resolution of the newer reprints of the bumper photo shared by rg some time back.
Deducer's questions though, I think pertain to the back side of the lower trail stone and how any hand-carved copies might lack the rough and pitted surface evident on that particular stone.
It has been claimed, but not proven so far, that Travis carved several copies of the "trail" stones and that these were distributed amongst other family members. If these copies can be located, it will be interesting to see if they also have the cross and "DON" on them. If not, that will raise further questions IMO.

 

[deducer]

Okay, Deducer. I get it <g> You find the ability to replicate from a prototype too far fetched.

Well; if that's true then the following story must be the story you are buying into. Either you buy into this hook-line- and sinker or everything that paid private detectives later found is a lie, everything written of Dr. Davis, the Hainers, and Travis' friends and associates from Oregon are all lies. Half the population of Stockdale is sun struck, and ALL of the family including the Saintly family matron, now past, are bald faced liars. Them's your choices. What shall it be?

Travis found the stone maps just as legend says. All in a pile on the same day, or; over a 6 months period. Take your pick, matters not. He took those to Oregon. He marveled at his luck in stumbling upon some of the same type things his Grandfather had acquired back in the good ole days. Danged if they weren't very similar. What luck! He remembered the stories he heard from his Grandfather of bandits, and ole Dons of Mexico, of treasure found and treasure lost. Of encrypted maps and symbols. Of narrow escapes and other tales of dark canyons and lofty ridges of times past.

On first finding the stones, he stopped in a car wash near Florence to power wash them (actually just use a hose)and to photograph them on his bumper. Not satisfied with that he washed them again in Texas and again when he arrived home in Oregon. Those things were dirty. Might as well take that same bumper photo again just to see which looks best.

Somewhere along the line, as luck would have it, he also found a smaller set of the exact same subjects, but of a different color. He carried those to Texas where they remained on undisturbed display for years. Viewed by 100's if not 1000's. After all it was a public open for business enterprise.

Remembering how much fun he and his pals had carving on stone when he was a lad, he took up the hobby again. He even practiced different techniques. Just for effect, mind you. He was turning out treasure related stone carvings on a pretty regular basis and was viewed by many as he worked. But all that shouldn't be confused with any effort to replicate those pesky Peralta Stones that keep turning up. No.....don't think anything of that. Its merely a coincidence.

Imagine his excitement when he found yet another set which remained with another family as porch ornaments and door stops. His luck was so good why not share? Heck; they were popping up everywhere. Right?

Low and behold; danged if another set didn't turn up. He loaned those to his Uncle who showed them to all his friends far and wide. He attracted quite a crowd. His Uncle used them to solicit funds to carry out searches in Arizona. He searched all over the bars and cantinas from Globe to Phoenix. The Uncle was the toast of the town in Apache Junction and elsewhere and could keep the locals mesmerized for hours just with a photograph. And who's to say what an actual look at the genuine rocks might bring? The story got better with every round of adult beverages. Imagine what could be bought with a Doctor's wallet at one's disposal. My, my.

The Uncle's set should not be confused with the set Travis shared with his friends in Oregon on many evenings over the years going over the different possibilities of where the trail might lead.

Imagine, two Tumlinson households in Oregon and 2 in Texas combing over the clues with genuine artifacts, genuine un-replicated originals each and every one. Just like peas in a pod they were. And those peas just happened to match up with Ole Pegleg's hoard of maps he acquired in the rough and tumble territory of AZ, S.TX, NM and Mexico years before. Wonders never cease.

Not being too happy with his Uncle's escapades, Travis retrieved ole Bob's set and dashed his hopes for fame, fortune, drink and song. But not to worry he still had his photos to share and could still spin a good yarn.

Travis stashed Bob’s stones under his bed along with the first four tablets. I imagine he had to reinforce the floor joints of his cabin at this point. It was getting pretty crowded under there.

Although written in humor, that's the nut shell of what you have to accept as plausible if you don't believe there was ever any replicas made. One part of this story may fail, even two. But not all of it. THAT is not plausible. For all to fail it would have to be a total fabrication involving well over a 100 people, many of which never knew each other, didn't have a dog in the fight, and lived in completely different sections of the country. They would have had to have collaborated in secret over time to create a narrative where each of their independent stories are supported by the other.

Do you find this more plausible?

I don't find it implausible, but as I've said many times, it just seems to me to be too laborious a process to replicate the pockmarks down to the last detail onto another stone, and for what? Those pockmarks do not add anything.

And regarding this:

Somewhere along the line, as luck would have it, he also found a smaller set of the exact same subjects, but of a different color. He carried those to Texas where they remained on undisturbed display for years. Viewed by 100's if not 1000's. After all it was a public open for business enterprise.

I assume you are talking about the grey stones that Joe T. saw when he was a little kid.

If they had been viewed by hundreds or thousands, then why are there no photographic evidence? Where are the pictures? Surely there must be at least a handful?

 

[Tump&Dean]

I don't find it implausible, but as I've said many times, it just seems to me to be too laborious a process to replicate the pockmarks down to the last detail onto another stone, and for what? Those pockmarks do not add anything.

And regarding this:



I assume you are talking about the grey stones that Joe T. saw when he was a little kid.

If they had been viewed by hundreds or thousands, then why are there no photographic evidence? Where are the pictures? Surely there must be at least a handful?

Arthur,

There are quite a few photos of the rocks - on the same film roll - that feature grey stones. The same color as the “wall of carvings” in the video Lynda recently posted.

Further - in “Challege for Superstition Gold” they are also described as grey in Travis’ own words. Family testimony as well as testimony of Stockdale townsfolk verify their appearance as grey and roughly the same size as an iPad Mini.

From there - Travis would painstakingly work on creating other versions to stratellically place as many as 5 full copies throughout the mid to western part of the country. We know where at least some of these are today. Each version is unique unto itself - as it would be nearly impossible to recreate anything on that medium, identically.

This information will become public to the treasure hunting community and the rest of the world in due time.

Thanks in advance for your patience.



Homar,

You are slightly correct in some of your recollections. Bluntly - I took major issue with the public story, and as presented I found it to be unrealistic and full of fallacy. For me, it took meeting the family and seeing original photographs and other materials to change my stubborn mind. I was the first non-family member to see this information. The evidence is quite compelling.

 

[captain1965]

So... Travis carved larger copies, then made perfect replicas of his larger copies ( down to every dimple and imperfection on every side of both upper and lower trail stones)
Wait a minute...
Why did he wash off the bigger copies at the gas station near Florence Junction? Took some proud photos of those stones..
Things just don't add up with Ryan's work IMHO

 

[captain1965]

Ryan went to Texas to prove Travis carved the stone because he (Ryan) Believed them to be a hoax. Only problem was he found out that Travis was legit. I think Ryan weaved his own ideas in were Travis is legit and Ryan is still correct in Travis creating something in his garage.

 

[Old]

>>>>Why did he wash off the bigger copies at the gas station near Florence Junction<<<

Because he didn't. Not that I have found. Many have told you he did. That, among many other instances, is where the story gets so twisted.

 

[captain1965]

One last thing...
The museum stones seem to have had quite a bit of public attention over the years...
Do you think it's odd that the replicas of replicas of smaller stones are the only ones to get this attention?

 

[Tump&Dean]

Captain1965,


I apologize in advance that I do not know your name, I always find it best to speak to someone on a more personal basis.

To be clear, Travis carved all copies of the rocks, in various sizes and different stone types. The information on the rocks was taken from maps Travis received from his grandfather, JJ Tumlinson.

I will argue the point with you that all copies of the rocks have the same imperfections / dimples / etc. They do not. There are striking differences between each version, including the rocks in Mitchell’s book and the rocks housed in the Superstition Mountain Museum.

Travis did NOT wash copies of these maps at a gas station – EVER. That is legend, started by Clarence Mitchell.

Yes, Travis did take photographs (in which we have the original negatives of) of the rocks he carved. They are as described, small and grey. Never were they red (trail stones). We have multiple different stones in various negatives.


It is not the intent of the project, nor of the family, to make things add up with public legend. The public legend is full of false narratives, and those false legends have ruined the lives of countless dedicated treasure hunters that have lost their financial foundations in the process.

I never went to Texas to prove Travis carved the rocks. I went to Texas to purchase “Challenge for Superstition Gold” and during the process found striking evidence that the legend that the public has believed, since Clarence Mitchell invented it, is colossally incorrect.

My work prior to my trip to Texas was focusing on the public legend and the works of Mr. Garry Cundiff. At that time in my life, prior to my relationship with the Tumlinson family, was heavily skewed by the same legend you know.

I admit I fell victim to public legend and am not embarrassed to say so. What I would be embarrassed to do is to support public legend when I have substaintial and provable evidence and testimony that speaks differently.

Kindly,

-RG

 

[captain1965]

Good morning Ryan
Names Jon

 

[markmar]

Ok RG

Then , who carved the Horse /Priest stone map , the stone crosses maps and the stone Latin heart ?
Was not the same guy who carved the stone trail map too ?
i'm asking this because all these stone maps are close related each other . To be more clear :

- You can't find where the stone trail starts witout the Priest/Horse maps .

- You can't imagine how the place looks like without the stone Latin heart ( pointing up ). The stone trail map is useless in some way if you will use the Latin heart ( this don't means you will remain alive ) . Also the Latin heart map shows another one mine that is not depicted in the other stone maps .

- And the last and the most important , you can't find the treasure cave without the stone Cross map ( the only that is related to the treasure ) because is the only map which shows the tenth mine .

So , my dear friend , the stone trail map that you and others believe is an important clue to find the treasure of Santa Fe , is nothing more of a safe path from a very rich mine ( like the LDM ) to another mine , which is the most richest of all the depicted mines in the stone tablets ..

 

[Tump&Dean]

Ok RG

Then , who carved the Horse /Priest stone map , the stone crosses maps and the stone Latin heart ?
Was not the same guy who carved the stone trail map too ?
i'm asking this because all these stone maps are close related each other . To be more clear :

- You can't find where the stone trail starts witout the Priest/Horse maps .

- You can't imagine how the place looks like without the stone Latin heart ( pointing up ). The stone trail map is useless in some way if you will use the Latin heart ( this don't means you will remain alive ) . Also the Latin heart map shows another one mine that is not depicted in the other stone maps .

- And the last and the most important , you can't find the treasure cave without the stone Cross map ( the only that is related to the treasure ) because is the only map which shows the tenth mine .

So , my dear friend , the stone trail map that you and others believe is an important clue to find the treasure of Santa Fe , is nothing more of a safe path from a very rich mine ( like the LDM ) to another mine , which is the most richest of all the depicted mines in the stone tablets ..

Ok RG

Then , who carved the Horse /Priest stone map , the stone crosses maps and the stone Latin heart ?
Was not the same guy who carved the stone trail map too ?
i'm asking this because all these stone maps are close related each other . To be more clear :

- You can't find where the stone trail starts witout the Priest/Horse maps .

- You can't imagine how the place looks like without the stone Latin heart . The stone trail map is useless if you will use the Latin heart . Also the Latin heart map shows another one mine that is not depicted in the other stone maps .

- And the last and the most important , you can't find the treasure cave without the stone Cross map ( the only that is related to the treasure ) because is the only map which shows the tenth mine .

So , my dear friend , the stone trail map that you and others believe is an important clue to find the treasure of Santa Fe , is nothing more of a safe path from a very rich mine ( like the LDM ) to another mine , which is the most richest of all the depicted mines in the stone tablets ..

Hello Marius,

Before we all get started down a path that history has proven to often times result in heated and disparagingly negative discourse, I want to preface by saying that it is not my intention to try to convince you of anything. I think you, as well as anyone else, has the right to follow their own path when it comes to a story that has been up for public scrutiny since 1964. My comments are not made to persuade and not meant to change your rightful beliefs. I am interested in having friendly conversations, but leaving negativity out of it. If we can all agree to that, then I think we can have some intelligent and meaningful conversations.

I fully understand and respect that many believe in the Latin Heart and the Bilbrey crosses. I have said many times that I do not. The reasons I do not believe in them is because they are yet again an item of legend, just like the Cursum Perficio map. There are no photographs of them, just drawings. On that same token, I also understand that I am holding things close to my chest as well, with promises of a future release......however, I have shared the original negative of the infamous bumper photo which proves it was taken in Oregon as well as another photo of one version of the stones sitting on newspaper leaning up against a house in the fruit farm that Travis worked at - to show as much as I can. In fact, I have shared more in regard to the story of the stone maps than anyone has, ever. Before I came around, no one even knew what Travis looked like, and his book was a legend, at best.

If someone could supply a photograph, a negative or anything outside of a drawing, then I would be curious to learn more. The biggest issue I take with the items you mention is they fit into a set of stones that never touched the hands of Travis Tumlinson. The rocks Travis carved would not have allowed the Latin Heart / Bilbrery crosses to fit into the corresponding places on the maps in the museum. This is where I shut down, and rightfully so. I am not someone who is led by faith - I am someone led by facts and hard evidence, in which there is absolutely none for the items in which you speak. It is far too convenient that the items you speak of fit into a set of rocks that Travis Tumlinson never saw. That is quite telling in itself.

I firmly disagree with you that the reader of the trail stones cannot find where the trail starts without the priest / horse map. I have found that location. The terminus of stone map trail, combined with information intentially left off by Travis, leads the viewer to a beautifully crafted site. At that site there is a box filled with church vestments.

I will also disagree that the stone maps lead to a mine, they do not. I have found the terminus of the stone maps and that source has been verified emphatically by members of the Society of Jesus. It is not a mine, but a cache of Jesuit vestments.

I understand that you have not been to Arizona, but I would highly suggest you do. There is a bigger legend than the stone maps in these parts....and that legend has to do with a crate full of extremely valuable firearms that were left behind by the Calvary, in a cave. These firearms would arguably be worth hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of dollars. Given that, the caves have been searched in all of Tonto National forest. On a nice day out here, you are almost guaranteed to see a would be treasure hunter climbing a steep ridge to explore a cave he found with a pair of binoculars.

I was off Hewitt Station road over this past weekend, and I would estimate there was at least 300-400 people. The weather is great and families are having fun - riding quads or target shooting. In all the miles I have logged in the Superstitions, I have yet to run into a treasure hunter.....instead, I find Canadians (mainly) that are here on holiday. They are usually retired and enjoying the warm weather of Arizona. Exploring and photographing the beauty of the Superstition range.

You, as well as anyone else, have the absolute right to believe in the Latin Heart / Bilbrey crosses, treasure caves and rich mines......I, as well as the family, and the intentions of the creator of the stone maps will vehemently disagree. Please do not take that as discouragement, but continue your quest....but please understand, until proof is found, your theory is just that....a theory. I have proof, I have shown proof to trusted friends.

I applaud your efforts in investing so much time and dedication into a story that, for me, is in my backyard.....but I will also say that Google Earth is not going to help you in the slightest. You need to be here, you need to see things with your own eyes......it makes a world of difference. I am sure that all locals will agree with me in that regard.

I find it curious that, in my interpretation, the most firm believers in stone maps - the ones that want to dissect the most minute of details, are the same folks that have never visited the Superstition Mountains.....

Make that commitment Marius, you owe it to yourself, dear friend.

 

[markmar]

Ryan

Maybe you are right and I am wrong , but this only in the future would be revealed .
You are another one who found out where the trail map leads . But which trail , that in the stone maps or the other in the paper map ?
Maybe a trail from a map that we didnt see yet.

 

[EarnieP]

Welcome back RG. Excellent posts.

 

[JohnWhite]

Forgive me if I am not as informed as any of ya'll...But the stones do lead to a mining area...They may lead to church vestments as well, who knows...The tale of Tayopa does mention such a thing as well...

Til' I breath my last I will continue to claim that I have been to the area...I have more than my claims as proof...I have what I believe to be platinum ore from said location...lol...I can even pull a Jacob Walzer and state...You can see a highway from said mining area but you can not see the mining area from the highway...hehehe...JK...Or am I

Anyhow...The area in question is where it is...And...Maybe one day ya'll may come to learn where said area is...Who knowsI have even given one of your own a little taste of the ore from the area...Who knows...I could be wrong and the ore could be worthless...rofl...Oh well...It does not really matter to me...

 

[markmar]

John

I didn't write how somewhere in the Latin heart region don't exist church artifacts . Someone told me how there is a cave which has inside among other precious things , a large iron box filled with jewelry and little gold statues .

 

[EarnieP]

Forgive me if I am not as informed as any of ya'll...But the stones do lead to a mining area...They may lead to church vestments as well, who knows...The tale of Tayopa does mention such a thing as well...

Til' I breath my last I will continue to claim that I have been to the area...I have more than my claims as proof...I have what I believe to be platinum ore from said location...lol...I can even pull a Jacob Walzer and state...You can see a highway from said mining area but you can not see the mining area from the highway...hehehe...JK...Or am I

Anyhow...The area in question is where it is...And...Maybe one day ya'll may come to learn where said area is...Who knowsI have even given one of your own a little taste of the ore from the area...Who knows...I could be wrong and the ore could be worthless...rofl...Oh well...It does not really matter to me...

Morning John,

We all create our own illusion, sometimes we just see what we want to see.
It's a common phenomenon.

Great day for a walk.