Video 6 - On Tumlinsons Trail : The Peralta Stone Maps

[deducer]

Preponderance of evidence……meaning more likely than not……..

(a) A Jesuit party of sojourners hid mines and/or caches in the mountains. They carved stone maps with broken and misspelled Spanish wording detailing the locations. They buried those stone maps for a later initiate to follow to the secret locations. But no such initiate took up the task.

(b) A party of Peralta miners worked mines in the mountains and found themselves under duress from hostile Natives. They hurriedly carved maps in broken and misspelled Spanish wording and buried them for unknown uninformed later discoverers to follow. The original carvers died at the hands of hostile Natives.

(c) A party of Peralta miners carved maps in stone with broken and misspelled Spanish writing leading to locations familiar to them in the mountains and before returning to Mexico buried them at the foot of those mountains to (a) retrieve at a later time; or (b) be retrieved by others they informed of their location.

(d) An American born Texan with an elementary education, a background of carving in stone with an artistic flare, and a family history of Spanish treasure hunting and map collection carved a set of stones with broken and misspelled Spanish wording depicting land marks in an area known for early Spanish/Mexican mineral exploration. Said stones may or may not be a duplication of existing map(s) or a compilation of existing maps.

If you walked into this story fresh today without a prejudice one way or the other, which story has the preponderance of evidence? That's before we even get into the he said, she said part of the discussion.

or (e) which is by far my favorite:

 

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[deducer]

Deducer,

Preponderance of the evidence can be something ever so slight (the weight of a feather for example) to tip the scales of justice.
It just matters as to what the evidence for you means, and where does it tip at this stage in the story?
Are you leaning on one side versus the other? Or are you deadlocked in the middle?
Interested to know where you stand at this point is all. Is it the stones? The carvings? The missing Indian Head stone? Curious....

The direction that I've gone in, wasn't dictated by circumstantial evidence, but rather hard evidence that I was presented with. Not that I am disregarding any of the circumstantial evidence nor the preponderance formed as a result, but none of it has conflicted with the primary evidence, so far.

My position on the proposition that Travis carved the stones, or that these stones were crafted to perpetuate a hoax, is that it is highly unrealistic, and very unlikely, due to the complex nature of those stones, and how things seem to relate to one another in subtle ways.

For example, discounting the one "zero" that Travis more probable than not, carved, and looking at the other five ciphers or symbols when the MH is oriented as it would be in the heart pocket and folded out (not flipped as the general consensus is), you will see that two of the ciphers are upwards and three are downwards. 2 and 3 are numbers we have seen elsewhere. The direction and angle of the cross formed by the "cracks" in the MH is also very significant to me as it matches something I have seen elsewhere.

 

[Hal Croves]

or (e) which is by far my favorite:

View attachment 1179255

deducer,
While the source for your quote is unnamed, it sure sounds like something that O. Arnold would have penned. Very curious that you tied the two stories together.

And don't forget (f) & even (g).

 

[Las Vegas Bob]

SH,

All kidding aside, when you take the side of Travis creating every map, and creating an elaborate story to go along with the maps, and, that he spent time in the sup's following the said maps that he himself created along with other things that he has carved.

I might have missed this fact which might be buried somewhere amongst this convoluted series of discussions but is there any prove that Travis actually spent any time in the Superstitions other then his own word?

 

[Las Vegas Bob]

These were carved by the same tool - same hand - and probably the same attachment on the pantograph / dremel

You can even see the dremel slip on the 2nd zero to the bottom.

The only reason to carve a monetary value into the stones would be to entice investors.

If the stones were left for the peralta or Jesuits to return at a later date - why give an amount the mine / cache is worth? They would already know. They certainly would have been told where to find the maps? For the same reason you wouldn't write Miguel on the witch map.

Was this to make sure the jesuits / peralta's future finders could verify that they found the "correct" treasure map?

It just goes to show how unintelligent this scam was - if they were really left by the Jesuits or peralta's- they would have been written on something other than a 25lb rock - and taken back to the "motherland" and handed off to their buddies to retrieve them.

I have often wondered why anyone would carve a map on several large heavy piece's of stone if the map lead to something wonderful then why bury it in some obscure location.

 

[deducer]

I might have missed this fact which might be buried somewhere amongst this convoluted series of discussions but is there any prove that Travis actually spent any time in the Superstitions other then his own word?

I believe he made around 12 trips to the Superstitions between '49 and when he fell ill.

 

[DiggerGal]

I believe he made around 12 trips to the Superstitions between '49 and when he fell ill.

I believe you are right deducer.....just can't recall where I read it! Lol

 

[Azquester]

One of the trips into the Superstitions Travis made. He was caught carving this:

View attachment 1179356



Notice those ancient symbols!

Travis was a cool Dude Man!

 

[Las Vegas Bob]

One of the trips into the Superstitions Travis made. He was caught carving this:

View attachment 1179356



Notice those ancient symbols!

Travis was a cool Dude Man!

Wow he must have been one of them free mason jar guys, I'm surprised he didn't crave any mountains while he was at it.

 

[Las Vegas Bob]

just can't recall where I read it! Lol

Same here and can't remember if it was from his own words or if someone else documented it. With all the cute little cartoons to look at and all the pictures of peoples relatives that should be on that ancestry site it gets confusing as to where you once read something.

 

[somehiker]

The direction that I've gone in, wasn't dictated by circumstantial evidence, but rather hard evidence that I was presented with. Not that I am disregarding any of the circumstantial evidence nor the preponderance formed as a result, but none of it has conflicted with the primary evidence, so far.

My position on the proposition that Travis carved the stones, or that these stones were crafted to perpetuate a hoax, is that it is highly unrealistic, and very unlikely, due to the complex nature of those stones, and how things seem to relate to one another in subtle ways.

For example, discounting the one "zero" that Travis more probable than not, carved, and looking at the other five ciphers or symbols when the MH is oriented as it would be in the heart pocket and folded out (not flipped as the general consensus is), you will see that two of the ciphers are upwards and three are downwards. 2 and 3 are numbers we have seen elsewhere. The direction and angle of the cross formed by the "cracks" in the MH is also very significant to me as it matches something I have seen elsewhere.

you will see that two of the ciphers are upwards and three are downwards. 2 and 3 are numbers we have seen elsewhere.

And we see the 3 then 2 as well, in that order, below the larger cross in the hands of the Priest.

The direction and angle of the cross formed by the "cracks" in the MH is also very significant to me as it matches something I have seen elsewhere.

You might like this then.....

The heart was broken, with the bumper photo showing that it had already been glued back together.
The word "COAZON" should be spelled "CORAZON" , so is "broken" as well, only missing the "R".

Which is taking symbolism to another level well beyond what might be found in books of treasure symbols.
Find the "R" and you have found the Heart.

Regards:SH.

 

[releventchair]

R= #23=2+3=5?
5 symbols before the zero showing not just a heart, but correct one?

 

[deducer]

The heart was broken, with the bumper photo showing that it had already been glued back together.

The word "COAZON" should be spelled "CORAZON" , so is "broken" as well, only missing the "R".

Which is taking symbolism to another level well beyond what might be found in books of treasure symbols.
Find the "R" and you have found the Heart.

Regards:SH.

Indeed! And the fact that the leaning cross on the MH should exist in the form of "cracks" rather than something carved or etched, as does the one seen elsewhere, is a very critical clue, and IMHO, pure ingenuity.

 

[Azquester]

Enhancement Photo

View attachment 1179414

 

[deducer]

R= #23=2+3=5?
5 symbols before the zero showing not just a heart, but correct one?

2 = 3 isn't necessarily a process of addition just as 18 = 7 does not equate with subtraction.

 

[releventchair]

Or the R by the river and peak in corner of stone?
Me, lost? Maybe.

 

[Azquester]

His cravings were for someone intelligent that could understand something right in front of his nose.

Mainly, the mason jar you just opened with a bad smell in it.

Must be a breath of stale air from a Vegas man.

Wow he must have been one of them free mason jar guys, I'm surprised he didn't crave any mountains while he was at it.

 

[releventchair]

From a previous post by Twisted Fork.

 

[DiggerGal]

OK Guys, Whoa!!!! Just Slow down here... First, the belief that the way the Stone was "Broken", then Glued not Cracked, has significance how?

 

[azdave35]

OK Guys, Whoa!!!! Just Slow down here... First, the belief that the way the Stone was "Broken", then Glued not Cracked, has significance how?

i wouldn't get too caught up in figuring these stones out......its a waste of time..they don't lead anywhere