Video 6 - On Tumlinsons Trail : The Peralta Stone Maps

[sgtfda]

dam, i thought RT was a drunkard and didnt get in the Smtns much
way to many accounts of this that and the other, makes it all suspect

I don't think Garman would have searched much with a drunkard. The letter was long and well written. There seemed to be a mutual respect between them.

 

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[UncleMatt]

Why would the fact a fake stone map has been broken and glued back together have any significance?

 

[RG1976]

Why would the fact a fake stone map has been broken and glued back together have any significance?

I find it to be significant because most folks feel like the bumper photo was taken shortly after (as in a few hours - max a few days) they were found and we already see Travis hand in their "appearance "

 

[cactusjumper]

IMHO, the trail stones are definitely a depiction of the terrain in the Superstitions. Too many precise turns for coincidence.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[sgtfda]

Matt the story is the stones were hosed off at a gas station after being discovered to get dirt and roots off. A glued heart stone in that photo put the whole story in a bad light. Unless as Homar said the stone was found glued.

 

[RG1976]

IMHO, the trail stones are definitely a depiction of the terrain in the Superstitions. Too many precise turns for coincidence.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

I would agree with this.

But did Travis find them that way? Or did he and perhaps a few friends carve them that way based on other information / maps?

 

[UncleMatt]

The best lies always contain an element of truth. The fact that a con man decided to employ actual geography, especially geography that was already part of a very popular treasure legend, simply reveals he knew how to appeal to people (his intended marks) to make his con game successful.

 

[somehiker]

If you look at the heart stone on display closely in person at the museum I doubt you would question that is glue residue marks. A very poor job of gluing the stones back together.

I have, as close as you can get to the glass case at least. But my eyesight is good, the glass was clean, and I don't need reading glasses. The only excess glue I could see would be impossible to make out in the bumper shot. And who, other than Travis himself, could say that they weren't glued together previously, found broken and re-glued later by Travis. That is not inconceivable,

It would be very easy to have that glue dated non-destructively, and Jim Hatt was ready to take up a collection to pay for it. But they refuse to allow any testing.
I wouldn't be surprised if it's already been done, and the result conflicted with the "modern fake" claims. Some of that glue has been removed from the top end of the crack, gone missing since Joe 's photo of Caroline holding it at the AMMM was taken. We won't ever be allowed to have them dated for the same reasons that so many claim there is no gold in the Sups.

Other than the age of the glue, or that of any glue residue, it probably doesn't matter whether or not Tumlinson found them already glued together, since it would have been obvious that the stone was made up of two pieces. What it does prove however, is that any stories about the stone being dropped and broken after the bumper photo was taken are obviously false.

 

[RG1976]

Matt the story is the stones were hosed off at a gas station after being discovered to get dirt and roots off. A glued heart stone in that photo put the whole story in a bad light. Unless as Homar said the stone was found glued.

if someone mentions the peralta's had super glue....

 

[cw0909]

CO Mitchell, says RT was a drunk, a lot of inconsistent info, seems to go back to
CO Mitchell, maybe Ryan and Frank need to do a vid on CO Mitchell
my wifi is giving me probs so later

One last thing I was going to post but left out. It really gives an insight into the relationship of Robert Tumlinson (Uncle Bob) and the others.

CO Mitchell said Robert Tumlinson was little more than Gene Davis slave. Davis let him sleep in a sort of garage on his property with a dirt floor. Robert was an alcoholic who was seldom sober. When he was coherent Davis would have him do odd jobs and pay him with food and spirits. It is doubtful Robert was ever able to do much of anything on his own, he needed help to accomplish just about everything. The thought of Robert driving to Arizona and forming an intelligent plan to manage the stone maps and search for a treasure would have been totally out of the question. It just didn't happen.

Joe Tumlinson, Travis's cousin was the one Travis traveled to Oregon to be with. Mitchell remembers Joe was maybe a little older than Travis and had such a bad falling out with Robert Tumlinson that he returned to Texas within a year. If he hadn't left Oregon he might have done Robert in. may have been where the gunshot story originated that is sometimes told about Robert Tumlinson and (Travis).

CO Mitchell's other daughter Doris also gave her account of her father and what she remembered although she never mentioned going into the mountains like her sister Carol.
* This is the Mitchell's accounting of events and they have their own view of things as they were.

Matthew

 

[RG1976]

And who, other than Travis himself, could say that they weren't glued together previously, found broken and re-glued later by Travis. That is not inconceivable,

Wayne - are you suggesting the peralta's glued the heart insert - then buried them and let them sit in the baking hot ground for who knows how long? 100 years? Do you believe glue would last that long in this Arizona weather? It was 114 at the Tumlinson site today when I was showing Matt. What type of glue would have been available to the peralta's?

If the peralta's didn't glue them back together - then who do you feel did?

The glue is clear-ish with a yellow tinge.

 

[sgtfda]

The stone is thin and could have been broken and glued more than one time. It does look fragile. May have been broken while being carved or passed around. Who knows.

 

[RG1976]

The stone is thin and could have been broken and glued more than one time. It does look fragile. May have been broken while being carved or passed around. Who knows.

Shot from the side. It is quite slender

 

[roadrunner]

if someone mentions the peralta's had super glue....

No, they where miners, they used liquid nails.

 

[UncleMatt]

Maybe it broke due to stresses placed on the stone while the rotary tool was being pressed into it to create the markings on it...

 

[sgtfda]

Wonder if Garman got sucked into paying some expenses. All that talk in the letter about treasure ending with a poor old me on a small social security pension who can't find a investor so I can go get it. I heard Bob Ward got a few bucks off Garman.

 

[roadrunner]

Maybe it broke due to stresses placed on the stone while the rotary tool was being pressed into it to create the markings on it...

I install solar panels.
When I have to drill a hole in a tile,on a roof,even if I take my time, and drill it slowly,in the center of the tile,not on an edge,with the hammer drill on.
I occasionally break a tile. There are imperfections in the tile that can not be seen, and the vibrations act as an earthquake and break them.
If any type of carving tool being used was electric, it could have very easily cracked the heart stone with very little, to no pressure at all.
Just the vibration alone could do it.

 

[UncleMatt]

I have broken many ceramic floor tiles when using an angle grinder with a diamond disc to carve intricate designs. Rotary tools often catch on imperfections in stone/ceramics and cause them to fail on fault lines that occur in them.

 

[DiggerGal]

I find it to be significant because most folks feel like the bumper photo was taken shortly after (as in a few hours - max a few days) they were found and we already see Travis hand in their "appearance "

Ryan,

What if Tumlinson found the Latin Heart and the horse map first? Took that home and pontificated what they meant, and decided he had map. During the time the Latin Heart was in his possession it broke, he repaired it. At some point he went back to the site and found the witch/priest and the heart/Trail map. Came back, hosed off the stones, inserted the broken heart and shot the picture. Notice in the photo that the background is blacked out? He didn't want anyone to see a landmark of where he was?

 

[somehiker]

Wayne - are you suggesting the peralta's glued the heart insert - then buried them and let them sit in the baking hot ground for who knows how long? 100 years? Do you believe glue would last that long in this Arizona weather? It was 114 at the Tumlinson site today when I was showing Matt. What type of glue would have been available to the peralta's?

If the peralta's didn't glue them back together - then who do you feel did?

The glue is clear-ish with a yellow tinge.

Not the Peralta's, because I don't think they had anything to do with making them or what they actually lead to.
I think it's possible, due to something I noticed about the heart shaped pocket in the Perficio rock which didn't "click" at the time, that the red heart stone was deliberately scored and then broken. That the two cracks form a long cross, like that held in the priest's hands, and both act as a pointer. As a separate piece, the broken lobe fits into another "omega" carving, where the "zig zag" then becomes another "instruction" or "pointer". It's all related to stuff out where I think the stones apply to though, so others are welcome to disagree with the way I see it.

There is another piece of broken stone, with a missing corner. A photo of which has already been posted.
Perhaps that stone was meant to be used in a similar way.

The glue may be "hoof glue" or "animal glue", which has been around for ages. In fact, you can still buy it or even make your own.
Since hoof glue is organic, it is easily dated.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_glue

Underground, in a dry climate and out of the sun, it could hold the two pieces together for a long time. But like any other glue, not necessarily forever.
There are plenty of examples of things "glued together" in museums, some of which are many centuries old.

Regards:Wayne