The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

[Javaone]

The Latin heart (numeric side) becomes a record/an accounting of their research of the surrounding area - other diggings, possibe caches, landmarks, areas of high/low interest, survey points... and so on. Just a thought.

Jerry

 

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[Ellie Baba]

Why would you not include the Latin heart stone as a part of the Peralta stones? The question is to anyone who cares to reply, and thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

The Latin Heart comes into play after the map has been solved/the heart pinpointed. In my opinion.

Jerry

In my opinion its like trying to use a mule to impregnate your mare! The Latin Heart is useless as far as the Stone Maps are concerned. The stone maps as a whole present someone who is neither a good stone mason and some what uneducated. Once you start to decode them you realize the genius that was used to create these stone masterpieces. The Latin Heart was used to make someone rich by piggy backing off of the Stone Maps. There are some well known cons that have been weaved into the historical account starting with Julia's fake maps that led to nowhere. You will always have a con artist at work when there are suckers on every corner. Imagine if we were allowed to sell maps to lost gold mines on this site; watch out P T Barnum!

Later,

Ellie B

 

[cactusjumper]

Ellie,

"The Latin Heart was used to make someone rich by piggy backing off of the Stone Maps."

IMHO, you have that exactly right. Same opinion on the Stone Crosses. None of these (original) artifacts are available for examination and, as far as I know, never have been. Claims to the contrary, that they were examined, have been offered by various proponents of their authenticity, but it would be nice to see some real documentation, as opposed to second hand stories.

Jim Hatt is the "expert" on these artifacts and a firm believer in their not being hoax's. You can find his opinions on DUSA. All of my posts on this subject were deleated by Jim, as were my Stone Map posts.

I did see that a few of my posts about Montezuma's Treasure, traded with Randy Bradford, were left on the site. Only my first post to him was deleated.
If you should read the topic, you will see how the author, Bradford, felt about my oposing opinion being deleated.

The fact that the Latin Heart was found laying on top of the ground, in the vicinity of where the Stone Maps were found, by an anonymous person, creates some suspicion in my mind. No one willing to claim they found the heart?

I have not really spent any time on the Latin Heart, although one sits in my office, but I have done considerable research into the Stone Crosses. Interesting history, but other than that, IMHO, a total waste of time.

On the other hand, I doubt anyone got rich off those particular artifacts. It was not, however, from lack of trying.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Blindbowman]

Michael Glenn Lawton .......1961 - 2010

 

[Oroblanco]

Thank you for your replies and explanations of why you (each) do not count the Latin heart as a part of the Peralta Stones. However this raises still more questions, as Ellie B and Joe R put it, the person most associated with the Latin heart is something of a shyster, (Michael Bilbrey) and this casts a shadow on the Latin heart and stone crosses for you; by this standard, why then are the Peralta stones viewed so positively? Are Tumlinson and Clarence Mitchell men of such high caliber as to encourage trust in anything they might be associated with? Or are they not also, at the least questionable as to their character? I don't understand this line of logic, by which one set of stones is not to be trusted because of the un-trustworthy people associated with them, but another set of stones IS to be trusted, when the people associated with them are likewise not 100% trustworthy.

I don't hold that we ought to judge any of those stones by the people associated with them alone - for it is quite possible for a person of very low character to come into possession of a very good object, and for a person of very good character to come into possession of a fraudulent object. Other factors ought to be major points to consider, like the style of the engraving, letters, expert opinions, just for starters. If anyone can explain to me why we should view Clarence Mitchell as absolutely trustworthy, thus making the Peralta stones likewise trustworthy, while Bilbrey being utterly untrustworthy makes his set of stones likewise un-trustworthy, I would appreciate it. It is one of the major puzzles in this whole subject, for me.

Got to run, just wanted to see what replies there were and catch up. I hope you all are having a great day and thank you again for the replies.
Roy ~ Oroblanco

PS Blindbowman wrote

Michael Glenn Lawton .......1961 - 2010

I am very sorry to hear that amigo, we can take heart knowing that you will be with him again some day, and that he has found treasures far greater than anything on Earth. At least his suffering has ended. You take it easy buddy, if you need to talk you have my email.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

BB,

I'm really sorry about your brother - I hope you are ok, and that you know that his fight is over, and is now at peace.

Beth

 

[Cubfan64]

Sorry to hear about your brother BB

 

[cactusjumper]

Bob,

It is sad to hear that your brother has passed. Even when we know it's coming, it is never easy. I know and understand the pain you are feeling.

This Native American prayer has always given me comfort in such bad times:

I give you this one thought to keep--I am with you still-- I do not sleep.

I am a thousand winds that blow.

I am the diamond glints on snow.

I am the gentle Autumn rain.

When you awaken in the morning's hush, I am the swift, uplifting rush.

Of quiet birds in circled flight, I am the soft stars that shine at night.

Do not think of me as gone--I am with you still--in each new dawn.

Always remember that Michael is "with you still".

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike,

[There is also the story of Ben Edwards, who was raised by his grandfather, who was in the US Cavalry. In 1865, his patrol happened upon the massacre grounds, and found a trail of at least 25 skeletons leading back to Upper LaBarge Canyon. At first, they thought they were the remains of Pima Indians killed by Apache. Problem was, one of the skulls had a gold tooth. Indians didn't get dental work. Then, under a bush, hidden from easy view, was the only dressed skeleton. Bens mother was an Apache, and chose to live on the San Carlos Reservation when her husband died. After his grandfather's death, he went to live with his mom at San carlos, and got a job there. Long story short, in about 1910, an old Indian (his uncle) told him the story of the massacre. The book includes all the names of the chiefs, and every detail of the fight (even down to the fact that they kept the horses and ate the mules). Over the years, ben looked all over the massacre grounds, and found evidence of Spanish Miners (see the picture of the Spanish Saddle and pack below). He also found pry bars and wedges used to split rock.]

Can you tell us who the source is for this story? Who actually gave the artifacts to the museum?

Thanks,

Joe

 

[Springfield]

Michael Glenn Lawton .......1961 - 2010

My condolences. Our human relationships outweigh all else.

 

[Twisted Fork]

Personally, I don't go much for any of that romantic pagan hogwash. Ever wonder why their spirits are still wandering the earth. Gee I heard they were supposed to turn into a toad of something. The only cruelty going on with all of this is the self imposed confusion that goes with those who aimlessly try to approach something that belongs to God. If God doesn't know who you are, your in for it buddy. This entire experience has brought numerous folks across my path and knowledge of these legends has more or less destroyed nearly every one of them. I find it quite entertaining to see people tell me that Mexicans or whoever back in the day, were just dumb animals or worse. The tablets are purely a work of coded art; I think they work just perfect.

 

[Springfield]

Personally, I don't go much for any of that romantic pagan hogwash. Ever wonder why their spirits are still wandering the earth. Gee I heard they were supposed to turn into a toad of something. The only cruelty going on with all of this is the self imposed confusion that goes with those who aimlessly try to approach something that belongs to God. If God doesn't know who you are, your in for it buddy. This entire experience has brought numerous folks across my path and knowledge of these legends has more or less destroyed nearly every one of them. I find it quite entertaining to see people tell me that Mexicans or whoever back in the day, were just dumb animals or worse. The tablets are purely a work of coded art; I think they work just perfect.

If you'd quit posting inanities and say something halfway intelligible, maybe you'd get a response or two. Reminds me of the days of old, when brilliant conclusions discussed around the hash pipe were completely forgotten the next day. Write a book.

 

[coazon de oro]

Michael Glenn Lawton .......1961 - 2010

Mis condolencias Don Lawton, y que Dios le de consuelo, esos son mis deseos. Homar

 

[somehiker]

Michael Glenn Lawton .......1961 - 2010

Our thoughts are with you during these difficult days Robert.

Regards:SH.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Posted on: Today at 06:07:54 PMPosted by: Twisted Fork
Personally, I don't go much for any of that romantic pagan hogwash. Ever wonder why their spirits are still wandering the earth. Gee I heard they were supposed to turn into a toad of something. The only cruelty going on with all of this is the self imposed confusion that goes with those who aimlessly try to approach something that belongs to God. If God doesn't know who you are, your in for it buddy. This entire experience has brought numerous folks across my path and knowledge of these legends has more or less destroyed nearly every one of them. I find it quite entertaining to see people tell me that Mexicans or whoever back in the day, were just dumb animals or worse. The tablets are purely a work of coded art; I think they work just perfect.


Forgive me - what the heck are you talking about

Beth

 

[Ellie Baba]

The Lord has called your Brother home BB,

I pray these words may comfort you my Friend.

My sister Sherry passed a couple years ago due to MS (multiple sclerosis).

My Father passed in 1995, his ashes have been scattered on what we called "The Finger of God".

1 Corinthians 15:55-57

"Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?"
But thank God! He gives us victory over sin and death through our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 2:19,

After all, what gives us hope and joy, and what will be our proud reward and crown as we stand before our Lord Jesus when he returns? It is you!

When my Father passed he wanted us to sing the following hymn at his service (notice the date).

Up from the Grave He Arose (Low in the Grave He Lay)
Text: Robert Lowry, 1826-1899
Music: Robert Lowry, 1826-1899
Tune: CHRIST AROSE, Meter: 65.64 with Refrain
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. Low in the grave he lay, Jesus my Savior,
waiting the coming day, Jesus my Lord!
Refrain:
Up from the grave he arose;
with a mighty triumph o'er his foes;
he arose a victor from the dark domain,
and he lives forever, with his saints to reign.
He arose! He arose! Hallelujah! Christ arose!

2. Vainly they watch his bed, Jesus my Savior,
vainly they seal the dead, Jesus my Lord!
(Refrain)

3. Death cannot keep its prey, Jesus my Savior;
he tore the bars away, Jesus my Lord!
(Refrain)

The Spirit lives eternal and your Brother's love for you will exist forever BB.

The shortest verse in the Bible is; Jesus wept. There is a season, a time to mourn ones loss.

We are here for you and await your return.

Ellie Baba

 

[Twisted Fork]

Personally, I don't go much for any of that romantic pagan hogwash. Ever wonder why their spirits are still wandering the earth. Gee I heard they were supposed to turn into a toad of something. The only cruelty going on with all of this is the self imposed confusion that goes with those who aimlessly try to approach something that belongs to God. If God doesn't know who you are, your in for it buddy. This entire experience has brought numerous folks across my path and knowledge of these legends has more or less destroyed nearly every one of them. I find it quite entertaining to see people tell me that Mexicans or whoever back in the day, were just dumb animals or worse. The tablets are purely a work of coded art; I think they work just perfect.

If you'd quit posting inanities and say something halfway intelligible, maybe you'd get a response or two. Reminds me of the days of old, when brilliant conclusions discussed around the hash pipe were completely forgotten the next day. Write a book.

The idea is to first work with and continue to work with a process of elimination. Once you realize where the mine isn't, the remaining conclusions become more or less obvious. These Monks and the Peralta boys, all loved to play charades; that is exactly how the tablets speak to one in symbols. Entertainment a must for the hard working miner.

 

[Blindbowman]

this was a priest setting in a church at Tayopa ,, keeping records of the mining and toll paid to the church ,, he was not working anything other then the balance of who got what ...lol

think about it he has a lot of time on his hands ,, he makes the stones to protect the rich mines from being lost .. yet they stones are not finished when he send them to the church ,, whats that tell you ..he knows he can not finish them with the risk at hand ... and he sends them anyway .... this was a matter of sending them right then , no matter how long he had been working on them ..the fact the stones are in this complex code tells us something else ,, there were coded to protect the sites but who could have read this code ?

no one is my guess .. if they had the treasure would have been found and the same goes for the mines ...

that's not the case ...

so the fact is simple the stones never left the church ,if they were to be sent somewhere they never made it there ...


if we are under stand the writings of Kino never found these sites ether ...i think the Jesuits sent Kino to relocate the mines and he could not find them ...if Kino had found the stones at the church maybe he would have found them
if that church was still standing at the time kino got there ...

i think thats why kino was sent there , to clean up the problem but he never found the mines ,, thats why he was talking to the indain tribes in the area ...it dose make good logic that if they knew there was a risk they would wait tell that risk was gone and then send someone to find the mines again ...

if kino could not find them and he never saw the stones then he never would have found them on his own IMHO

 

[Blindbowman]

thank you all for the kind words .. this has been a very hard day in my life and there is a few more of these day still to take place this week ..

i am a creationist .. my brother will pass into the beyond and he will go where his beings wills it self to be .. he is free and without the pain of the sickness that took him from us ..now we must help his kids and those left here to remember him ..for who he was and the things he did in his life time..

we all do things on earth yet we take very little with us when we go from this world into the next ...

this only makes the richest mines in the world fail to shine as bright as god made them too ...

i plain to place a piece of Dutchman ore on my brothers grave before winter sets in ..god test us all ...and his test are great before me for i am the Blindbowman and only i an he know the reasons why ...

my brother's childern will go up playing with Lost dutchman ore and never know know how much there father's death played a roll on finding the lost mines .. and how i set aside a mt of god to morn his death ....

i am sorry i am still hurting and i must go ...

 

[Ellie Baba]

BB you stated,

if we are understand the writings of Kino never found these sites ether ...i think the Jesuits sent Kino to relocate the mines and he could not find them ...if Kino had found the stones at the church maybe he would have found them.

Remember when I posted this document back on 01 Jul. 2010 @ 12:00 38 PM? The important part is shown below:

COMMENTARY ON MARK OF NICE, 1 539- 481

Fray Marcos crossed the Rios Mayo and Yaqui,
and about the middle of April was at a place called Vacapa or
Bacapa. This is specially to be noted; for the name has been
confounded with a certain San Luis Beltran de Bacapa, in
northwestern Sonora near the Arizona line, and thus Fray Mar-
cos has been sent by various writers promenading in a country
he never even approached, to the dire confusion of his whole
route. But Bacapa was an Indian village on the headwaters
of the Rio Matapa, about lat. 29", and was at or near the modern
town of Matape, in central Sonora, where the Jesuit mission of
San Jose de Matapa was founded in 1629. It was this miserable
malidentification of Bacapa, traceable back at least to Mange,
Mar. 12, 1702, which threw Friar Marcos' route out, altogether
too far to the northwest, at the hands of many historians or
commentators, who fetched him up low down on the Gila (where he should have been), made

'At this date, when Mange was with Kino at San Luis de Bacapa, he
indulged in the bit of historical and geographical mythology;

"And it seems that the army of Francisco Vazquez passed through (here) in the year 1540 when they went to discover the 7 cities on the plains of Zibola which is the same name that the chronicler Antonio de Herrera gives in each of the 4 ( 4 what?) discovering (discovered) this trip and it distances 40 leagues from the sea, and that is the same distance that we found it to be," etc. Bacapa! One day's journey from Sonoita! Oh Coronado, (here are 3 different possibilities)

1.- "when anyone speaks of you, it is of fabulous things (riches) (?)
2.- ..................speaks fabulous things of you
3.- when anyone speaks of you, fabulous (rich) things are mentioned

Fray Marcos de Niza was a Franciscan Friar and he was aware of the treasures and the Seven Cities of Cibola. The Jesuits did not want Fray Marcos or Coronado to find the treasures. The map that was given to Fray Marcos was designed with a fatal flaw; Bacapa!

Father Kino as commanded by the Jesuit General was sent to check out the treasures and he had a copy of the correct map, which could have been derived from or later became the stone maps. The Jesuits would never allow Marcos or Coronado to actually locate the treasures. In other words the flawed map that was given to Fray Marcos led himself and Coronado on a wild goose chase.

Father Kino knew exactly where the treasures were hidden and he served his God and the Jesuit Father’s instructions. For now the treasure was safe.

How did he know this to be true? Kino was actually there, on the site where the treasures were hidden! Know the history and you will find the truth.
Later BB, you are on the right train of thought, just don’t get de-railed.

Ellie Baba