The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

Do you think the Peralta stone maps are genuine, or fake?

  • They are genuine maps to the Lost Dutchman mine

    Votes: 12 9.9%

  • They are genuine maps to some lost mine, not necessarily the Dutchman

    Votes: 49 40.5%

  • They are fakes, created with the intention to fool

    Votes: 60 49.6%
  • Total voters
    121
CJ wrote:
Oro,

Are you saying that many "Spanish Treasure Signs" may simply be American Indian Petroglyph's? Who woulda thunk it? :o :o
Click to expand...

Nonsense, I was just "testing" you folks; why we know that any type of rock carving, painted symbol or even a huge boulder that if you squint yer eyes ju-u-u-ust right, you can make it into an elephant or bison or eagle or fish or bird or anything at all, why that HAS to be absolute proof of the Spanish and Jesuits, working hand in hand to carve/engrave/paint so many zillions of treasure symbols all over the western US, Mexico and Canada! ;D :D ;) Them thar Indians never, ever made ANY kind of rock carvings, paintings or signs of ANY type, since they had smoke signals they had no need of them. Jeepers, don't ever-body know that? :D ;)

For those who can't tell, just kidding! Having dug a couple of DEEP holes because of "Spanish symbols" that were really Amerindian, I simply thought to save some sweat and headache for others, but on second thought why should I do that? Dig fellows dig, every symbol or shape you find, has to be a treasure marker, it is just a matter of digging deep enough! ;D :D ;) If you don't find any treasures, that only means that Cactusjumper, Real De Tayopa, Djui5, Gollum or Blindbowman or possibly Mrs Oro [she has a mean streak like that] already found it and took it, and neglected to erase the markers! ;D :D Not ME though, I always erase the markers when I remove those Jesuit/Spanish treasures.

Oroblanco ;D :D ;) ::)
 

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You're crazy! Them ain't Injun nor Spanish carvings! Them be Knights Templar markings, with masonic undertones! Although it could be the waybill to Ophir!

Oh well, enough fun for now. I'm off to electroshock treatment! ;D ;D ;D

Best,

Mike
 

Shucks! I clean forgot about the Knights Templar, but what about the KGC! Some of the signs have got to be their work too! ;D

Just a word to the newbie Treasure Hunters out there, if you find some rock carvings or painted symbols or carved tree etc it pays to get hold of some good books on American Indian signs as well as books on Treasure signs, to know what the sign really IS before you start raising blisters on your hands. Wait, what am I saying? Dig man dig, you can find out LATER whether it was really a treasure sign or Amerindian! Digging is great exercise, and there is nothing like having to fill in an empty hole that you dug for NOTHING to get you to learn about signs!

Electro-shock therapy? Sounds kinky! ;D :D ;) Is a pretty nurse involved? ;D :D

Oroblanco
 

A great number of carvings are Ameridian and have nothing to do with treasure-they were left by whomever for whatever purpose. The Martineau book is the best I've seen on their interpretations. Most of the Archies' dogma on the subject is rubbish. Even today's Native Americans have very little knowledge of their meanings.

Many, many carvings/monuments are Anglo/Mexican and have nothing to do with treasure-they were left by whomever for whatever purpose, mostly prosaic. Trail markers, surveyors' control points, section/quarter corners, mining claim markers, property boundaries, ranch brands, grafitti, hoaxes for TH-ers (Peralta stones e.g.), hunters' signs, etc. - the list of possibilities is long. Many a treasure hunter has been fooled by these 'Spanish Markers'. Hoo boy....

Faces/animals? If you look closely and squint, you can find a hundred of them within 5 miles of your house, I'm sure. Some of them are strikingly lifelike. Nearly all of them are natural and some of these have been included in genuine treasure cache sign patterns. A few have been created/augmented by man as trail markers for one reason or another. People made these not to leave a subtle message, but to leave a throbbing unmistakable landmark that couldn't be missed. There aren't many of these around.

Treasure carvings/signs? Let's cut to the chase. If we're talking about the genuine large caches put down by the Spanish/Jesuit/Templar/KGC/NWO group (whoever the he[[ they are), the first thing you need to realize is that these caches are not lost-they are still owned. There are genuine markings to be found. Interpreting the cache locations from them without proprietary knowledge is not possible. Some of the most brilliant code breakers alive are still working for wages (or writing books)-does that tell you something?

All 'treasure sign' books available are worthless. Good reading? Yes. Provocative food for thought? Yes. Look good in the bookcase? Yes. Valuable information to lead you to treasure? You figure it out. The meanings of genuine treasure signs are known only to their creators.
 

i agree 100% even if the data helps under stand signs it dose not get ar done ! . you got to get out there and put in the time and hard work those that often work hard forget they have a brain and for the most part i have never seen anyone hide anything of value with out under standing where they were puting it in some kind of logical navagational trems .. maybe only they would under stand . us seeing 20 diffrent maps and stones rates right inthere as here say .. what dose matter is a frist hand sighting ,,,i started with that idea in mind and i well finish by finding what i saw ... treasure and gold is for fools . history and wisdom are far more valueable ...and they are not worth more than your life ...

note when i found a great pictorgaph i coverd it back over as i had found it ,, whats that tell you ?

i dont care what anyone says . no human on earth dose things for no logical reason . even if they are the only ones that under stand their reasoning . and thats a fact !

if long ago say these pima and papago had a holly place . they would not have left it with out a fit ... and if they did they knew there was very very little chance of anyone finding it .. or in the most likely event . they were unknowing of the trun of events that made the lost of this holly place . weather ,war , sickness ,, it could have been any of the above ....

the fact as i see them is the holly place dose show evidence of it being real . where it is , is now a matter of solving the puzzle of how and where and why it was lost !


we you lose your car keys . what is the frist thing you do to find them ?

look where you had them last ?

the most common site they were used at !

than you check all the sites they could be hiden at in that aera ..

and a few things to remember . the more eyes the better ..the longer you look you may find them by chance ..

and what is the most common sense place they could be .. or could someone or something have taken them ...


IMHO all of the other data flow . spainish , jesuits . monks . frogs . is of little value in recovering the lost item ... now look at the facts . as i see them ... who out right saw any treasure in these legends . the dutchman , dr thorne, the man in 1959 , and me...

i know what i saw ..

the dutchman gave some very misleeding data yet some holds a truth of logical reasoning why he did that .

dr thorne had no reason to lie at all .. and the clues he gives are very stright forward ...

the man in 1959 had no reason to lie and gave his acount yet like the dutchman death is final.... these 3 storys hold weight with me ...

the dutchman gave 3 people clues . it was a game . what was of value and what was not ...

yet to under stand all of this and know what i saw fits like a missing peice of a puzzle . can only fill a space that is made for it ...


what are the fats as of now ...


some of us beleave there was a dutchman
some of us beleave he did have a mine ...

some of us beleave the clues he gave were for the most part true

could he have had a mine and is there any facts to subport that idea ,,, yes


there is miles and miles of sand and rock out there .. the idea that you could locate a 9 or 10 tunnle opening is near crazy . yet , the navagator with 159 ports behind him can find his place in the ocean within 250 ft in 3600 nm with no land marks other than the stars . last time i looked up over AZ there were still stars ...lol ...

we are talking about logic . reasoning . and history . dose the history of the aera subport the idea of these event ...yes . not to say they are real just that they could be ...


dose the aera subport the idea and the history ,, Yes

what are the odds of the mine or tunnle being real .. 99% chance IMHO that the legend is true . the piont i was makeing is how far dose this legend go back and what, where, when, why and how and by who ...

why dose what isaw have anything to do with this legend ..

for one good reason that at this piont in time can only be seen as fiting the known data of these legends . i could not find anything that could prove i had not found it , and you see how hard i am trying to find anything that can prove i have found it or disprove it ...

"i found something " . what it is will take time to define and relocate ...to clam is beyond that ...

this legend is not going to be a walk in the park to solve ... i beleave ron fledman was right about that ...

there is only two ways to find something lost .

retrack your steps of how it got lost or search everything in the aera .. . the conditions of this location you can rule the last idea out ...

if you can not retrack the past . the only other logical way to find something lost is to wait for some one to find it ...or have a sighting of it .....


last known sighting 1979 june 15th , name the blindbowman !

what was seen , a large funnle shape high up in the mts shineing a reflective gold glow upward .. thats what i saw , thats what i will find when this is all over ! is it the dutchman . thats what the research is going to find out ! i will relocate this site by the end of 2007...

could this sighting be the LDM ...?

with all i know about it so far , YES ..

the site is within 5 miles of weavers needle .. it fits the maps and the stones and all know data and clues with in reason and logical formats

it fits the area , it fits the history ,it fits the legends...

do i have enough data to relocate this site . YES ...
 

Springfield said:
All 'treasure sign' books available are worthless. Good reading? Yes. Provocative food for thought? Yes. Look good in the bookcase? Yes. Valuable information to lead you to treasure? You figure it out. The meanings of genuine treasure signs are known only to their creators.
Click to expand...

I disagree with this statement strongly! Several Spanish/Mexican/American Caches have been found with the aid of markings/monuments. I know of quite a few. Not too many publishable, though.

I don't know how much time you have actually spent in the mountains and desert hunting such things, but I would guess not much from the way you denigrate such books and monuments. You go ahead and live in blissful ignorance of the truth.

I DO agree with you in a certain aspect. I have seen a lot of people post pictures of easily identifiable NATURAL rock formations, who claim them to be Spanish/Jesuit/Templar/etc. I have even seen people use trees and bushes as treasure signs (even though they weren't there 200-300 years ago).

Best,

Mike
 

not drawings , cut into the rock .. no trees or brush lol

it has little to do with the maps stones and clues . it has more to do with logical traslation of them vs history and posablity and the conditons within the given aera ..

if you can not relate the data to the aera your wasteing your time ...

it all come back to one word " found "

what is the closest to found with out haveing it in hand , "sighting "

fact vs beleaveablity , i am not here to prove what i saw .

i am here to do research about what i saw ...


when someone is lost or missing what do they do , send people out to look for any signs ..

when a body is found who finds it and why . its most often found by accident ...

i was not looking for the LDM or legends or anything when i had my accidental sighting ...

i was just smart enough to know what i saw was not a normal sighting or event ...it has almost nothing to do with pictorgraphs or legends or treasure or mines ...

its just a accidental sighting of a very odd effect in a given location that dose not look to be the norm for the area it was at ...

i speet years looking threw feild glasses and studying land marks and things of this nature . yet i have never seen anything close to what i saw that day ...this was not a junk pile or a old glass bottle or a kid holding up a mirror ...you would have had to been there at the time to under stand what i am saying .. i would say i was no more than 1200 ft away i had been trained to spot ships at 22-25 miles , my eye sight was 20/15 , i could id a stop sign at 1/2 of a mile with my right eye ...1200 ft is not a 1/4 mile to some you would think its imposable .. thats total bs ...

navagation is a skilled trade ..


i have no dout what so ever as to what i saw that day . the rest of this is all going threw the red tepe ...get me proff . get me photos . they got to be to scale and i want this and that .

i think the LDM could stay right where it is .. lol
 

mrs.oroblanco said:
BB,

I know we have had lots of discussions on the LDM here, and I understand most of what you are saying (don't necessarily agree with it all, but DO understand what you are saying and why).

The part I just cannot seem to put together is - what do you think you saw from the plane? What would have been the "thing" that stood out from there? I mean, certainly not rocks, or any geological "signs". What do you think the "golden glow" was? And why do you think it was what you think it is? (before you hit the ground running, I mean - BEFORE you started the search)? In addition, why haven't you just gone back over the spot, by plane, with a GPS and have the exact coordinates?

B
Click to expand...
i did and i do !
 

Cj when this is all over your not going to question the logic at all ... if i were you i would go back and take a second look at your tracing . your going to feel like a total fool ...
 

Bowman,

"Cj when this is all over your not going to question the logic at all ... if i were you i would go back and take a second look at your tracing . your going to feel like a total fool ..."


Actually, I already do but it has nothing to do with the truth or falsity of the "evidence" you have presented here, or my inability to follow your reasoning. It has everything to do with getting involved in the conversation, at all.

After months of posting about your "find", you suddenly come up with Aztec pictographs to back up a story so full of "historical" holes that it makes the Titanic look sound. I have no doubt that you look back at your posts and feel I am being unfair, and everything you write makes perfect sense.

You could be right but reading the same posts, I have a different opinion. I could very well be wrong, and it may be that all my dogs may not be barking. If that's so, I will gladly take the heat and look forward to someone pointing out how any of your posts make sense.

Please post the pictures you took of the "Aztec pictographs". You have told us what they mean, so showing the pictures will give away nothing. I am looking forward to seeing proof that the Aztecs were in the Superstitions. At that point.......I will probably feel foolish. ;)

Joe
 

how about we skip the kissing and get right to the good stuff ,,.... you want me to prove i can translate the tracing ? yes or no
 

Springfield said:
All 'treasure sign' books available are worthless. Good reading? Yes. Provocative food for thought? Yes. Look good in the bookcase? Yes. Valuable information to lead you to treasure? You figure it out. The meanings of genuine treasure signs are known only to their creators.
Click to expand...

I disagree with this statement strongly! Several Spanish/Mexican/American Caches have been found with the aid of markings/monuments. I know of quite a few. Not too many publishable, though.

Mike, I'll stand by my original statement. Let me ask you something - if you were to cache $100,000 US face value in gold coins and decided to leave rock carvings to help ID their location, would you consult the many published treasure sign books for your symbols? Another question - if you truly found a valuable cache, no matter how you located it, why would anyone else hear about it?

I don't know how much time you have actually spent in the mountains and desert hunting such things, but I would guess not much from the way you denigrate such books and monuments. You go ahead and live in blissful ignorance of the truth.

For the record, you've guessed quite poorly indeed, but then you don't know me. However, you have grasped an important concept - creating an ignorance of the truth is the name of the game in secreting caches. And conversely, stubbornly following invalid clues searching for hidden loot will only chew up your boots. It's terrific exercise, and you may live longer as a result, but you won't get rich doing it. Don't get me wrong, trying to figure this stuff out is the most fun you can have with your clothes on, but unless you've been given inside information, you've got a better chance to make money at the casinos.
 

Springfield,

I have been saying the same thing for years.....with the same effect. Jesuit hidden treasures with maps and symbols using the "King's Code". :) :) ::)

Logic is useless. The claims of found treasure using these "signs" are many. No doubt there is one such case that has been verified. And it is......?

Joe
 

Bowman,

The simple thing to do here, is post your pictures of the Aztec pictographs. That will make me, and anyone else who has voiced doubts about your claims....look like fools. You would not be giving up any secrets, because the pictographs are well known.

When someone makes fantastic claims it's only natural that there will be doubters. Some think I have made fantastic claims, when I said I had figured out the Stone Map Trail, over thirty years ago. For that, I have taken enough abuse to bury me ten times over....but I am still here.

Other than the team I had working with me, I have done everything short of taking the doubters by the hand and walking the trail with them. I doubt that many of those folks have even taken the time to compare the Stone Maps to a topographic map, using the landmarks I have given.

I have been ridiculed, called every name...cept a white man and laughed at. I know what I know, so the last laugh may be mine. On the other hand, I could be completely wrong.

The difference is, I have presented evidence. While you can still say I am wrong, no one can show where the Stone Map Trail leaves my conclusions behind. No one can say I made up one statement out of whole cloth.

Public exposure of your ideas, means public scrutiny. As the "blindbowman" you should have been ready for the slings and arrows :) of your detractors. If you leave, it will be the results of your stories and nothing else.

Joe Ribaudo
 

Cactusjumper, you "white man" you! (Now you can even add that name to the list! ;D :D ;))

Blindbowman, I hope you will change your mind and continue to discuss the matter; if you would prefer that I keep my trap shut I can do that (I hate being Mr Skeptic anyway) and where better to bounce ideas/theories/mysteries than among your fellow treasure hunters? We all get a dose of doubt and contrariness from fellow treasure hunters, most of whom might well have been born in the Show-Me-State (Missouri) because they will NOT believe what people claim until they see it for themselves. I am sure Cactusjumper can attest to this fact as well as Real deTayopa, Gollum, Djui5 and most all members of T-net. Heck sometimes I swear, if I said the sky was blue, our pals here would insist that I provide clear, un-doctored photos to prove it! ;D

Either way, if you should decide you would rather not discuss such controversial subjects with a bunch of 'skeptics' like us, I will understand, but hope that you will one day write a book of your ideas and findings - I will sure be happy to buy that book! Good luck and good hunting to you, I hope you (and everyone here) finds that treasure that you seek!

Oroblanco ~ Roy A. Decker
 

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