Odyssey Marine Article...

And one more thing: If we have to believe what Valero said, the crew of the Louisa were looting the Bay of Cadiz. He denounced it before the Administration. Didn't he? I don't know what will be the judicial truth but the Louisa's crew was doing everything but looking for oil, gas methane or soil contamination. And there is no precedents for using a magnetometer (and the rest of the stuff catched aboard) in that kind of works. But now you put a doubt in my mind. If you insinuates that a magnetometer can be used for that, are you insinuating at the same time that Valero was lying when he alerts about the looting?
 

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trinidad said:
And one more thing: If we have to believe what Valero said, the crew of the Louisa were looting the Bay of Cadiz. He denounced it before the Administration. Didn't he? I don't know what will be the judicial truth but the Louisa's crew was doing everything but looking for oil, gas methane or soil contamination. And there is no precedents for using a magnetometer (and the rest of the stuff catched aboard) in that kind of works. But now you put a doubt in my mind. If you insinuates that a magnetometer can be used for that, are you insinuating at the same time that Valero was lying when he alerts about the looting?
Click to expand...

Trini
let the goddess of justice follow its course.
VV
 

Another wise proverb: "If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck."


[/quote]

Can be a goose, but who is looking to be so blind not to know !
 

Panfilo said:
On the other hand spez401, in Vox's particular case he (or anybody else for that matter, your clients, etc.) can be found not guilty and be innocent at the same time as it is not mutually exclusive. The fact that a judge or jury are not able to convict a person for lack of proof does not imply that that person is guilty, its a system designed to protect the innocent that are falsely accused.
Panfilo
Click to expand...

Panfilo,
I agree.. the two are not mutually exclusive. If you are "innocent", you are in fact not guilty. If you are found "not guilty"... it doesn't mean you are innocent. It may be a somantic argument, but in fact it is an important distinction. The terms "guilty" and "innocent" have been thrown around a lot regarding the Spain/Odyssey incident. We must remember however, that both are criminal terms... not civil. The case between Odyssey and Spain is CIVIL in nature. The article that was referenced was specifically regarding CRIMINAL charges (bribery if I recall, without going back and reading it - and there were no charges brought).

My original point was the naivety of stating that just because someone, especially in politics, was found not guilty clearly means that they had done nothing wrong and were innocent.

Now, with all the wikileaks docs coming to light, and all of the other issues... I am still very interested in how this is all going to turn out.
 

Panfilo,
I agree.. the two are not mutually exclusive. If you are "innocent", you are in fact not guilty. If you are found "not guilty"... it doesn't mean you are innocent. It may be a somantic argument, but in fact it is an important distinction. The terms "guilty" and "innocent" have been thrown around a lot regarding the Spain/Odyssey incident. We must remember however, that both are criminal terms... not civil. The case between Odyssey and Spain is CIVIL in nature. The article that was referenced was specifically regarding CRIMINAL charges (bribery if I recall, without going back and reading it - and there were no charges brought).

My original point was the naivety of stating that just because someone, especially in politics, was found not guilty clearly means that they had done nothing wrong and were innocent.

Now, with all the wikileaks docs coming to light, and all of the other issues... I am still very interested in how this is all going to turn out. [/quote]

Spez,
addition to the Sicilian "mafia" there is also: the galleons "mafia".
Everything is bought: judges, prosecutors, jurors, false witnesses, political, etc. etc.
Economic interests prevail over individual rights. I learned this from history. Everything moves to the sound of money. Do not be naive and do not talk about laws (please).
All the best VV
 

vox
I agree with you that money and economic interests tend to prevail over individual rights. In the political realm, many people and things are bought and paid for through lobbying, lobbyists, "favors" and outright bribery. What you say only reinforces what I originally stated, that it is naive to say/believe that just because someone was not charged means that they are innocent, especially in the political context.

I have no intention of going into the laws for this particular incident. First, while I do have some knowledge of Admiralty Law, I have never had any real involvement in Salvage, nor in the hundreds of years of common-law, and international rules, regulations and "conventions" that govern the incident at hand. Second, there is far too much emotion laced throughout the last 15 pages of this post alone for me to do so. The Spain/Odyssey argument can be boiled down into any other polarizing argument - two sides with completely opposing views. Neither side is going to change their mind, regardless of any information presented. Those who think Odyssey is right will say Spain is the oppressive government, who raped and killed millions, took their gold, and now is doing the same thing to "treasure hunters". Those who side with Spain will say that Odyssey (and all treasure hunters) are nothing more than theives and grave robbers who break laws, defile graves, and will do anything in their power to deprive the rightful owners of their property, while hiding behind "salvage" laws. It is an unwinnable argument, just like abortion, gun control, and free speech. The issue will eventually be decided in court. Hopefully the deciding authority will actually follow the law, and not political pressure... but we won't know until it is resolved.

As for being naive, I am far from it.
 

It's funny readind Vox complaining about lobbying, false witnesses, and rare judicial movements. If I didn't know what Vox were talking about I could believe he was talking about his own (and friends) situation. We have saw all this things here in Spain about Odyssey since the very beginning:
1.- A high official from the spanish Ministry of Culture very close friend of L.V, that made movements in favor of his friend and against Odyssey.
2.- A couple of journalist that said what L.V and Vox want from them to say.
3.- A local "warrior" (and with access to the media) that doesn't mind to lie and lie just for the hell of having the reason and put Odyssey in a very delicate position.
4.- A trial opened in La Linea court just with some headlines from papers and the accusation of a few that talk about things they ignore and, of course, they cant prove.
5.- a public opinion manipulation as we never saw before.

Don't play with us Vox, it's a new year, lets keep it in pace.
 

trinidad said:
It's funny readind Vox complaining about lobbying, false witnesses, and rare judicial movements. If I didn't know what Vox were talking about I could believe he was talking about his own (and friends) situation. We have saw all this things here in Spain about Odyssey since the very beginning:
1.- A high official from the spanish Ministry of Culture very close friend of L.V, that made movements in favor of his friend and against Odyssey.
2.- A couple of journalist that said what L.V and Vox want from them to say.
3.- A local "warrior" (and with access to the media) that doesn't mind to lie and lie just for the hell of having the reason and put Odyssey in a very delicate position.
4.- A trial opened in La Linea court just with some headlines from papers and the accusation of a few that talk about things they ignore and, of course, they cant prove.
5.- a public opinion manipulation as we never saw before.

Don't play with us Vox, it's a new year, lets keep it in pace.
Click to expand...

Trini,
yours are pure words and more words. I'll show you things with facts. Be patient.
You are still anonymous. For some reason it will be hidden.
Cheers VV
 

Stemm gets no answer... imagine that.
It riles them to believe that we perceive the deadly web they weave -- Moody Blues (?)
 

Government corruption and piracy plain and simple. So blatant and they have no fear of repercussions. If the governments, (Spain and the U.S.) lose this case, it will be monumental! What in the world is our government doing siding with Spain in the first place. I thought our government was supposed to be on our side? Treason, pure and simple. Hang 'em.
Aquanut
 

Odyssey Executes Contract With Clients of Robert Fraser & Partners


TAMPA, Fla., Jan. 7, 2011 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Odyssey Marine Exploration, Inc. (Nasdaq:OMEX), pioneers in the field of deep-ocean shipwreck exploration, and its subsidiary OVH, Inc. have executed agreements to provide marine archaeological excavation and related services on an existing project to certain client companies of Robert Fraser & Partners LLP (RFP). The work will be conducted on a shipwreck site that Odyssey discovered and inspected during a recently completed survey carried out under contract with the RFP client companies.

Odyssey is providing the research vessel, equipment, technical and archaeological crew to conduct the operation. The contract provides for cash payments totaling approximately U.S. $2.3 million to Odyssey and OVH, Inc., plus additional payments based upon revenue derived from the project. After the repayment of all recovery costs, Odyssey and OVH, Inc. will receive at least 50% of net revenue until an additional £1.9 Million (approximately U.S. $3.0 million) has been received and then will receive a minimum of 50% of further net revenue in accordance with the search contracts.

Subject to the verification of the shipwreck's identity, the condition of the cargo and confirmation of jurisdiction for administering legal rights and title to the shipwreck and its cargo, Odyssey expects to enter into additional agreements for the complete archaeological excavation of the site and for the conservation and documentation of any artifacts recovered.

"Our client companies are very excited by the results of this search and Odyssey's efficiency and performance on this project," commented Colin Emson of Robert Fraser & Partners. "In the coming months, we look forward to our clients completing further contracts with Odyssey."

About Robert Fraser & Partners LLP

Robert Fraser & Partners LLP is part of the London-based Robert Fraser Asset Management Group, which has operated since its formation in 1934 in the fields of merchant banking, corporate finance and structuring, marine & property finance. The group's core areas of expertise include venture capital, project syndication, corporate finance, mergers and acquisition structure, project development, new venture and global business structuring. Robert Fraser Marine Ltd. is a part of the group which specializes in assembling projects directed at shipwreck exploration and the development of deep ocean resources.
 

Jeff, do you have any idea of what this new project is? Whats the name of the wreck? Where is it?
 

Salvor6 said:
Jeff, do you have any idea of what this new project is? Whats the name of the wreck? Where is it?
Click to expand...

It could be one of two projects, the Shantaram & Enigma. The first is off Lands End, and the second is off Lebanon. They surveyed both areas for Fraser.
 

Another article from the spanish journal ABC. In this case it´s not the great Calero but the correponsal at New York, Anna Grau, with her peculiar point of view.
The translation is from Google but I left the web page if you want to read it in spanish.

http://www.abc.es/20110107/cultura/abcm-odyssey-tira-wikileaks-para-201101071752.html


TRANSLATION

The company was forced by U.S. courts to return the treasure from La Mercedes.

Odyssey Marine Exploration, the company's Tampa, Florida, forced by the courts of the United States to return to Spain the treasure of the Spanish galleon "Nuestra Senora de las Mercedes" of which he had appropriated, is now trying to reverse that ruling cables holding the secrets of Wikileaks. Particularly those who report that the State Department spoke to the Spanish Ministry of Culture of both this case and the request back to a California family of a painting by Camille Pissarro looted by Nazis, and is now owned by the Museum Thyssen.
The Odyssey has enough time to catch the wrong end of the paper and conclude, not that the U.S. government tried to keep relations friendly cultural exchange between the two countries but would be "sacrificed" the interests of the Florida pirate Californians descendants of those dispossessed by the Nazis. So have gone to court to see to challenge the ruling in against him, presenting it as a management of the White House.
Indeed, the Justice Department ruled in favor of returning the treasure to Spain. But even if that were the result of a barter-that none of this is clear from a literal reading of the cables, says the New York lawyer William Barron, defender of the Spanish position in the dispute, "the last word had the government not but the judge. Was this who in exercising its discretion whether likened what happened to the Spanish galleon with an attack on the sovereignty of a country-Spain-, warning that if American authorities had already endorsed him, were exposed to suffering the same with their own heritage cultural.
Odyssey, which has among its shareholders with several influential congressmen, and saw its shares plummet as a result of judicial fiasco, is now back on track. To do lobbying and pressure, and reported an otherwise very credible contingency from Washington to the national interest Spanish: "I am troubled by the actions of the Departments of State and Justice, suggesting that the U.S. government is ceding sovereignty to governments foreigners, "said Gus Bilirakis, Florida Republican Congressman.
 

Yes! That's my great Calero! I'm sure that He's thinking about writing a book with all kind of plots and modern pirates. And now, softly, he puts a shadow of doubt over the spanish newspaper El Pais, one of the very few that didn't dive in trash journalism about the Black Swan issue. Embarrassing. I'm sure some day, an association of octogenarians will give a prize to this guy. He writes for them, people with their senses limited and with a weak memory. But as a proverb says here in Spain, lies has its feet too short and doesn't walk too far too long. As Vox use to say, time will tell.
PS: I wish some day Calero writes about Luis Lafuente and Luis Angel Valero. It will be interesting his point of view about this two honorable guys.
 

trinidad said:
Yes! That's my great Calero! I'm sure that He's thinking about writing a book with all kind of plots and modern pirates. And now, softly, he puts a shadow of doubt over the spanish newspaper El Pais, one of the very few that didn't dive in trash journalism about the Black Swan issue. Embarrassing. I'm sure some day, an association of octogenarians will give a prize to this guy. He writes for them, people with their senses limited and with a weak memory. But as a proverb says here in Spain, lies has its feet too short and doesn't walk too far too long. As Vox use to say, time will tell.
PS: I wish some day Calero writes about Luis Lafuente and Luis Angel Valero. It will be interesting his point of view about this two honorable guys.
Click to expand...

Trini,
yours are just words and more words. Facts, written documents, hard evidence, no words ...... and anonymity !!
Cheers VV
 

Vox: words against words. It seems a good plan to me. I understand you don't ask for facts, written documents and hard evidences from yours, let say, defendants but don't ask me what you don't ask them. The friends (or former friends) of your has a ton of lies on their backs, since a fake picture of a coin in a hand (in the very beginning of all this issue) till the today malicious insinuation of a link beetween El Pais and Odyssey. The rest, facts, hard evidences are in some trial papers.

PS: Why are you so uneasy about my identity?
 

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