Wrecks from Aztec & Inca looting periods

[Tanneyhill]

There are a number of people who get caught up in treasure hunting who think that Atahualpa's room full of ransom gold is still waiting for someone to open the door. I am working on some Inca stuff but am not delusional about finding some laying alongside the road. Any finds inland will require a lot of time and high end electronics for detection. My finding a manuscript will allow me to find 5 tons of gold in South America and not behind a closed door!!!

Agree, which is why I am leaning more towards building the right next-gen technologies before getting out there in the field. But the allure and addiction to research keeps drawing me back before I have the technology developed 🤓.

But we know it is out there - grave sites, temples, lakes, caves, canyons, jungles, wrecks etc

Mixtec, Aztec, Tarascan, Huastec, Kuna, Tairona, Quimbaya, Muisca, Diquís, Coclé, Chorotega, Nahuange, Chavín, Moche, Nazca, Sicán, Inca, Mapuche, Chimú, Chibcha, Sinú etc etc

For instance, the Quimbaya treasure:

In late 1890 (exact date varies by source, but often pegged around October), treasure hunters—not professional archaeologists—stumbled upon a stash of gold artifacts in two tombs near the town of Filandia, in what’s now Quindío Department, Colombia. The Quimbaya region, nestled in the Cauca Valley between the Andes Mountains, was home to the Quimbaya people, who thrived from around 500 BC to 600 AD, with influence lingering later. These looters were likely locals chasing rumors of gold, a common activity in Colombia at the time due to its rich pre-Columbian heritage.

The find came during a period when Colombia’s government was strapped for cash and eager to showcase its cultural wealth. By 1891, the treasure—433 pieces in total—was sold off to the Colombian government for about 50,000 pesos, a hefty sum then. The government later gifted most of it (around 120–150 of the best items) to Spain in 1893 as a thank-you for helping settle a border dispute with Venezuela. Today, those pieces sit in the Museo de América in Madrid, while smaller batches are scattered in museums like Bogotá’s Museo del Oro and private collections.

Old Spanish reports from the 1500s hint the Quimbaya buried more gold to hide it from conquistadors. The 1890 tombs prove they stashed valuables in graves, and Colombia’s jungles and mountains could still hold similar hauls—pendants, poporos, statues—waiting to be found. No specific "lost Quimbaya treasure" has a name like El Dorado, but the idea persists that 1890 was just a taste.

 

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[ISmellGold]

Agree, which is why I am leaning more towards building the right next-gen technologies before getting out there in the field. But the allure and addiction to research keeps drawing me back before I have the technology developed 🤓.

But we know it is out there - grave sites, temples, lakes, caves, canyons, jungles, wrecks etc

Mixtec, Aztec, Tarascan, Huastec, Kuna, Tairona, Quimbaya, Muisca, Diquís, Coclé, Chorotega, Nahuange, Chavín, Moche, Nazca, Sicán, Inca, Mapuche, Chimú, Chibcha, Sinú etc etc

For instance, the Quimbaya treasure:

In late 1890 (exact date varies by source, but often pegged around October), treasure hunters—not professional archaeologists—stumbled upon a stash of gold artifacts in two tombs near the town of Filandia, in what’s now Quindío Department, Colombia. The Quimbaya region, nestled in the Cauca Valley between the Andes Mountains, was home to the Quimbaya people, who thrived from around 500 BC to 600 AD, with influence lingering later. These looters were likely locals chasing rumors of gold, a common activity in Colombia at the time due to its rich pre-Columbian heritage.

The find came during a period when Colombia’s government was strapped for cash and eager to showcase its cultural wealth. By 1891, the treasure—433 pieces in total—was sold off to the Colombian government for about 50,000 pesos, a hefty sum then. The government later gifted most of it (around 120–150 of the best items) to Spain in 1893 as a thank-you for helping settle a border dispute with Venezuela. Today, those pieces sit in the Museo de América in Madrid, while smaller batches are scattered in museums like Bogotá’s Museo del Oro and private collections.

Old Spanish reports from the 1500s hint the Quimbaya buried more gold to hide it from conquistadors. The 1890 tombs prove they stashed valuables in graves, and Colombia’s jungles and mountains could still hold similar hauls—pendants, poporos, statues—waiting to be found. No specific "lost Quimbaya treasure" has a name like El Dorado, but the idea persists that 1890 was just a taste.

Dunno, That LIDAR is pretty incredible. I am 100 percent sure if I had access to LIDAR Technology on a regular basis I could come up with some incredible finds.
Its almost like shooting fish in a Barrel.
Oh well, Pretty sure alot of stuff has been discovered and just not reported. Alot of times if an Archeoligical site doesn't fit into certain perameters, it just goes unreported.
Some of those Archies can be real a**holes. Especially when it comes to shipwrecks.

 

[JohnWhite]

I wonder IF any of the gold came from ZacatecasRumor has it they’ve discovered one heck of a world class deposit there…Who would have thunk

 

[ISmellGold]

I wonder IF any of the gold came from ZacatecasRumor has it they’ve discovered one heck of a world class deposit there…Who would have thunk

Meh, Pretty deep inland Empire. Doubtful. Probably most of the Gold came from the Tampico Area Possibly Veracruz area.
The Gemstones farther south.

 

[Colombiapictures]

Here is a link to an article about a pre-Columbian golden artifact, found in modern times.

THE MAZARUNI PECTORAL A golden artefact discovered in Guyana and the historical sources concerning native metallurgy in the Caribbean, Orinoco and northern Amazonia.

THE MAZARUNI PECTORAL A golden artefact discovered in Guyana and the historical sources concerning native metallurgy in the Caribbean, Orinoco and northern Amazonia.

www.academia.edu

 

[ISmellGold]

I wonder IF any of the gold came from ZacatecasRumor has it they’ve discovered one heck of a world class deposit there…Who would have thunk

Probably is, some Large Deposits in that area. I doubt there was active mining going on at the time in that area, though. You Are Talking Ancient Times? Right? Most likely all the Gold was probably gathered from Rivers and Streams, and eventually "migrated" to Coastal Cities over thousands of years.

 

[Blak bart]

Tumbaga bars are discussed here. This is most likley how most artifacts were handled. The fact that no native artifacts in gold silver and copper were ever found on the tumbaga wreck shows the normal procedure of quickly melting for shipment, and then later refined in spain....the royal tax was already being taken out !

 

[Tanneyhill]

Tumbaga bars are discussed here. This is most likley how most artifacts were handled. The fact that no native artifacts in gold silver and copper were ever found on the tumbaga wreck shows the normal procedure of quickly melting for shipment, and then later refined in spain....the royal tax was already being taken out !

Thanks for sharing, I guess a stamped seal of the King on a Tumbaga bar would still be quite the rare collectible find. So the video mentions these Tumbaga bars were found from another older wreck and not the Maravillas as the stamp was from the era of Carlos I of Spain (1516-1556), which is much earlier than the Maravillas and instead overlaps with the conquest periods. Did they ever figure out the name of the wreck where these Tumbaga bars came from?

 

[Blak bart]

Tumbaga 1528 Shipwreck "Hernan Cortes - Aztec Treasure" 8 lb Silver Bar

TUMBAGA 1528 SHIPWRECK "CORTES ~ AZTECS" Shipwreck Silver Bar 8+ lbs. around, lol. It's the perfect size to enjoy and share with friends and other collectors. This 1528 TUMBAGA SHIPWRECK "CORTES ~ AZTEC's" Silver BAR is weighs Over 8 lbs (8.07lbs) and m

www.pirategoldcoins.com

 

[Tanneyhill]

So we have evidence of a shipwreck carrying melted down bullion that is essentially screaming Mesoamerica—Aztec, Mixtec, Tarascan etc. However, we know from Cortes letters that immediately after the conquest they did ship intact pieces of adornments, jewelry and the sorts back to Spain and this was confirmed by chroniclers Castillo and Xerez as well as artist Albrecht Dürer who marveled at the pieces put on display in Brussels.

The melting down prior to shipping may have depended on multiple factors - route taken and year it was shipped. CP below provided literature that they already had infrastructure to melt in Panama so any ships Cortes sent from Acapulco to Panama would have used this infrastructure. Any ships traveling via Veracruz in the initial period after conquest may have carried raw pieces until a time at which point the melting down infrastructure had been put in place in Veracruz.

1521, the melting down of the gold war already organized. The intent was to pay the royal fifth out of the plunder, before it was shipped to Spain.

If a 1528 wreck exists with melted down bullion from Mesoamerica, which was accidentally found by Marex while searching for the Maravillas and which they didn't even know existed then it is very likely there are other wrecks from the early period after conquest that we won't be able to find in great detail in the archives because documentation was murky during the early years.

1) Possible wreck of Cortes personal treasures
2) 1523 - Nombre de Dios Wreck (named for its departure location in Panama) from Havana to Spain carrying treasures from Mexico (Aztec) sank in the Azores
3) 1527 - Tierra Firme Fleet - Convoy sank off Hispaniola (pre-dates Pizarro so gold would have been Tierra Firme but may also include Aztec via Acapulco as Cortes sometimes sent treasure ships to Panama via the Pacific)
4) 1535 - San Juan (?) traveling from Havana to Spain carrying treasures from Peru sank near the Bahamas in a hurricane
5) 1536 - Shipwreck near Panama (noted in Cieza de León’s accounts) on Pacific side lost part of a gold shipment

Interesting enough the same site has a tumbaga bar from an alleged 1526 wreck carrying Tarascan loot (Cristóbal de Olid conquers the Tarascan Empire 1522) from Cortes fleets back to Spain. No further information is provided about this wreck - where it was found and by whom and what was salvaged.

Tumbaga Silver Bar Tarascan 1526 Shipwreck 3.66 lbs

TARASCAN 1526 SHIPWRECK of Los Mimbres "CORTES ~ AZTECS" Shipwreck Silver Bar 3.66 lbs . It's the perfect size to enjoy and share with friends and other collectors. 32 This 1526 TUMBAGA SHIPWRECK "CORTES ~ AZTEC's" Silver BAR is weighs Over 3.66 lbs and

www.pirategoldcoins.com

Either way - stamped tumbaga bars or adornments the problem is without any specifics it is like finding a needle in an ocean, which is why vast majority of treasure hunters never find anything and why I think next-gen technology is key - the current methods are mostly 1980s with some advancements here and there unless you have deep pockets and even then procuring massive ships out to sea with crews aboard that are paid wages and need to be fed and looked out for is an expensive endeavor.

Bloomberg article: LORD OF THE DEEP

 

[Colombiapictures]

What has not been mentioned, is the contraband.
The melting down of the gold artifacts was done specifically to reduce the contraband of the gold. Each gold or silver or Tumbaga bar was taxed and duly stamped and registered. Of course, the smelter, the assayer, the registrar all had to be paid too.
It is now well known and proven numerous times on every single shipwreck of the time of conquest and colonies, that there was a considerable amount of contraband on board.
The proven amount of contraband sometimes reaches 100%, but it is quite safe to expect at least 25 to 35%.
Contraband means that the taxes have not been paid.
Not just the 20% of the royal fifth, also the taxes and cost of shipping as well as the ever necessary bribes.
Paying bribes was necessary on every single step.
The administration of the colonies was basically self financed through a complex system of tips, kickbacks, bribes and taxes. everybody had to pay.
To be nominated for a job one had to pay a substantial sum. I don't know yet how much Oviedo as responsible for the first foundry in 1521 paid for his nomination as assayer and tax collector, but it must have been a lot.
At about the same time, the first bishop paid 233 gold Ducats for his nomination. that was about 2 pounds of gold. Since he did not have this small fortune, he had to borrow it which means he had to pay a considerable amount of interest.
Smuggling the raw gold or artifacts avoided many but not all of these costs.

 

[Colombiapictures]

So we have evidence of a shipwreck carrying melted down bullion that is essentially screaming Mesoamerica—Aztec, Mixtec, Tarascan etc. However, we know from Cortes letters that immediately after the conquest they did ship intact pieces of adornments, jewelry and the sorts back to Spain and this was confirmed by chroniclers Castillo and Xerez as well as artist Albrecht Dürer who marveled at the pieces put on display in Brussels.

The melting down prior to shipping may have depended on multiple factors - route taken and year it was shipped. CP below provided literature that they already had infrastructure to melt in Panama so any ships Cortes sent from Acapulco to Panama would have used this infrastructure. Any ships traveling via Veracruz in the initial period after conquest may have carried raw pieces until a time at which point the melting down infrastructure had been put in place in Veracruz.



If a 1528 wreck exists with melted down bullion from Mesoamerica, which was accidentally found by Marex while searching for the Maravillas and which they didn't even know existed then it is very likely there are other wrecks from the early period after conquest that we won't be able to find in great detail in the archives because documentation was murky during the early years.



Interesting enough the same site has a tumbaga bar from an alleged 1526 wreck carrying Tarascan loot (Cristóbal de Olid conquers the Tarascan Empire 1522) from Cortes fleets back to Spain. No further information is provided about this wreck - where it was found and by whom and what was salvaged.

Tumbaga Silver Bar Tarascan 1526 Shipwreck 3.66 lbs

TARASCAN 1526 SHIPWRECK of Los Mimbres "CORTES ~ AZTECS" Shipwreck Silver Bar 3.66 lbs . It's the perfect size to enjoy and share with friends and other collectors. 32 This 1526 TUMBAGA SHIPWRECK "CORTES ~ AZTEC's" Silver BAR is weighs Over 3.66 lbs and

www.pirategoldcoins.com

Either way - stamped tumbaga bars or adornments the problem is without any specifics it is like finding a needle in an ocean, which is why vast majority of treasure hunters never find anything and why I think next-gen technology is key - the current methods are mostly 1980s with some advancements here and there unless you have deep pockets and even then procuring massive ships out to sea with crews aboard that are paid wages and need to be fed and looked out for is an expensive endeavor.

Bloomberg article: LORD OF THE DEEP

.... Here is some info related to the article LORD OF THE DEEP. what happens behind the scenes

 

[Physics guy]

China is definitely in the shipwreck salvage business. Just Google “china shipwreck salvage” and “the maritime executive china shipwreck salvage” and you’ll get a lot of hits. Here’s just one example:

Chinese Archaeologists Recover 900 Relics From Two Ming Dynasty Wrecks

China's archaeological authority announced Thursday that more than 900 valuable relics have been recovered from two wrecks in the South China Sea,...

maritime-executive.com

 

[Crow]

That's their front amigo. There is no money in porcelain anymore as the market is flooded.

The odd historic discovery or two is good PR for the CCP that hides their real intentions.

The money ticket for them is non Non-radiated steel, often sourced from pre-nuclear era shipwrecks, is valuable for its lack of radioactive contamination and is used in applications requiring high sensitivity to radiation, such as scientific instruments and Geiger counters. Steel produced before the widespread use of nuclear weapons (pre-1945) is considered "low-background" or "non-radiated" because it doesn't contain the radionuclides (radioactive isotopes) that are present in modern steel due to atmospheric fallout from nuclear testing. These radionuclides, like cobalt-60, can interfere with the sensitivity of radiation detection equipment. Part of nuclear armaments program as they prepare for war with the west.

Since China does not have steel pre 1945 navy they steal from Japanese Dutch, American British and Australia war graves. and various countries cargo ships sunk during the war pre 1945. The CCP does not do it directly but indirectly with Shadow fleet. These ships are privately own merchant ships yet the company that owns them are owned by CCP.

During World War II, an estimated about 400 ships from all sides sank in the shallow waters of the Strait of Malacca and the South China Sea alone.

Enough said and my apologies in advance if being political.

Crow

 

[Crow]

The problem I see with artifacts is that it would be contested more in the courts as cultural artifacts by governments with deeper pockets. Depending on your business model of course. gold bullion and Coins is much more disposable than artifacts that have a limited market that require Provence to be sell-able.

It would be travesty to see gold or silver artifacts melted down into bullion. But for gold bars and coinage they are common commodity regardless how much an archeologist will crap on about them being artifacts.

Crow