Odyssey Marine Article...

[jeff k]

New Odyssey Papers - Blue China Wreck

http://shipwreck.net/pdf/OMEPapers19-FinalX.pdf

http://shipwreck.net/pdf/OMEPapers20-FinalX.pdf

 

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[jeff k]

10-K...

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/798528/000119312511049873/d10k.htm

 

[jeff k]

10-K...

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/798528/000119312511049873/d10k.htm

Excerpts...

During Odyssey’s first 100 days of exploration under charter to Dorado, seafloor mapping of approximately 5% of Dorado’s tenements was completed; numerous rock samples, including sulfide samples, were recovered; and new mineral deposits were discovered in the waters surrounding the Solomon Islands and Vanuatu.

Mineral discovery highlights reported by Dorado’s on their first 100 days of exploration included:

• assay results on samples recovered from multiple locations include high grades of gold, silver, zinc and lead;

• one of several Seafloor Massive Sulphide (SMS) discoveries on this tour has assay results averaging 10.9 grams/tonne of gold, 550 grams/tonne of silver, and 15% zinc and lead (combined);

• another target yielded zinc in excess of 43% and Silver at 395 grams/metric tonne;

• nine prospects have been advanced as discoveries or high priority targets and 24 additional prospects recently visited remain of significant interest; and

• exploration of an Epithermal Gold Deposit with previously sampled average grades of 24.7 grams/tonne of gold.

During February 2011, we expanded our deep-ocean mineral exploration client base by entering into a charter agreement with Neptune Minerals PLC (a UK Company) and Neptune Minerals, Inc. (a Nevada Corp.) and Neptune Resources Ltd. (a New Zealand Company). Under the charter, the Dorado Discovery will supply geological exploration services to Neptune Minerals to explore their tenements in the waters surrounding New Zealand during the first half of 2011. This agreement provides for 75% of the charter rate to be paid in cash to Odyssey and 25% to be paid in equity of Neptune Minerals, Inc. John Morris is a principal in Neptune Minerals, Inc. and is also the cofounder and former CEO of Odyssey and continues to be a consultant to Odyssey.

After completion of the Neptune project, it is anticipated that Odyssey will continue exploration activities using the Dorado Discovery in the South Pacific for Dorado Ocean Resources and other clients.

-----------------------------------------------------

We filed our notice of appeal with the Federal District Court for the Middle District of Florida and Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals on January 15, 2010, and filed the Initial Brief on appeal with the Eleventh Circuit on May 11, 2010. Spain issued its Response to our appeal on July 19, 2010, and Odyssey’s Reply to Spain’s Response was filed on August 19, 2010. The case was scheduled for oral argument in Atlanta, Georgia on March 4, 2011 but has since been changed to the week of May 23, 2011.

In its Initial Brief, Odyssey argued that the district court erroneously dismissed the case by using flawed legal analysis and by failing to acknowledge or understand several major aspects of the case, including the issue of sovereign immunity. The opening brief also points out several erroneous factual findings and legal conclusions made by the district court including the following:

• Not having the benefit of Aqua Log, Inc. vs. State of Georgia, 594 F.3d 1330 (11th Cir. 2010) which was decided by the Eleventh Circuit three weeks after the district court’s dismissal of the Black Swan case, the district court incorrectly held that under the Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act (FSIA), a sovereign (Spain) was not required to have possession of property to claim sovereign immunity. In Aqualog, the Eleventh Circuit held that in in rem admiralty proceedings, a sovereign is indeed required to have possession. Although the Aqualog case was an Eleventh Amendment case regarding the immunity of the state of Georgia, the Court addressed immunity for all sovereigns in such cases, including foreign countries like Spain.

• The district court did not conduct an evidentiary hearing on the disputed issues of fact, unquestioningly accepting testimony presented by Spain. This was a violation of due process for all of the claimants as well as Odyssey.

• The district court erred in failing to recognize that the Defendant in the case (an in rem proceeding) was NOT Spain or a vessel owned by Spain. The actual Defendant in the case was the group of coins and artifacts (the res in this case) discovered and recovered by Odyssey.

• Descendant claimants have alleged to have ownership rights to the property recovered, claiming their ancestors placed it aboard the Mercedes (the vessel alleged by Spain to have been carrying the subject cargo) for shipment. The district court completely misunderstood their relationship to the property, referring to them as “descendants of those aboard the Mercedes,” rather than the descendants of property owners.

• Despite undisputed evidence to the contrary, the district court erroneously found that the Mercedes was not engaged in commercial activity. The majority of coins aboard the Mercedes were privately owned and commercially shipped, and the gun decks of the Mercedes had been reconfigured to accommodate paying passengers and cargo. In fact, in the aftermath of the sinking of the Mercedes, Spain went on diplomatic record to protest to the British government that the Mercedes was carrying private cargo and passengers, and therefore the British attack was an unwarranted provocation. Longstanding law, as codified in the FSIA and the SMCA (Sunken Military Craft Act) provides that a vessel is NOT entitled to foreign sovereign immunity if it was engaged in commercial acts.

• The district court also failed to recognize that under well-established admiralty law, cargo may be separated from a vessel, and the cargo may be subdivided to determine competing claims of ownership and salvage.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

10-K...

http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/798528/000119312511049873/d10k.htm

Interesting reading Jeff, Odyssey and now clinging to the Commercial content for their case, I see Greg no longer mention's
the coins being thrown over board.
With the HMS Sussex, It is interesting to see they don't think it was on a commercial mission ( transporting money for payment ) sound familiar
Both Flagged Navel vessels, carrying money for payment. One sunk in a battle ( Mercedes ) The Sussex sunk in a storm, under no threat.
Is it because Odyssey have a deal with the British, that it then becomes Sovereign, So they can go into Spanish waters
The Spanish should lay claim, it's in their waters. Just like the Atocha, Royal flagged military escort, carrying money for the king, sunk in a storm
and claimed by Mel fisher (USA )
Food for through
Ossy

 

[jeff k]

Ossy... The Mercedes was carrying commercial cargo and money. The Sussex was not carrying commercial cargo. That's the difference between the two ships. Apples & Oranges.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Ossy... The Mercedes was carrying commercial cargo and money. The Sussex was not carrying commercial cargo. That's the difference between the two ships. Apples & Oranges.

Jeff, what did Odyssey salvage ( Money, Silver , gold ) What was the Sussex carrying, ( Money, silver, gold )
they look like Apples to me. What is commerce, trading of goods and services for money !
Ossy

 

[jeff k]

The Sussex was carrying money that belonged to the British government, and the Mercedes was carrying money that belonged to merchants. You can spin it all you want, but it's still apples & oranges.

 

[mariner]

Ossy,

I think that Spain has adopted a policy not to try to recover ownership of any ships where a Court has already awarded salvage rights. If another ship like the Atocha were to be found tomorrow, there is no doubt that Spain would claim it.

As for the Sussex, there is no doubt in my mind that it was a Sovereign Vessel, as the Gold was being transported to the Duke of Parma on behalf of the British Crown, in order to secure his political allegiance.

As you know, I don't approve of Odyssey's action in removing all the coins, but I do believe that the Mercedes was not entitled to protection as a Sovereign Vessel, as it was not on purely non-commercial activities. therefore, I think that Odyssey is entitled to claim salvage rights.

Mariner

 

[Vox veritas]

Ossy... The Mercedes was carrying commercial cargo and money. The Sussex was not carrying commercial cargo. That's the difference between the two ships. Apples & Oranges.

Please conclusive evidence about the Mission of Sussex (non commercial)
I mean, documents at sight?? Where? When? Why?

 

[Vox veritas]

Ossy... The Mercedes was carrying commercial cargo and money. The Sussex was not carrying commercial cargo. That's the difference between the two ships. Apples & Oranges.

Please conclusive evidence about the Mission of Sussex (non commercial)
I mean, documents at sight?? Where? When? Why?

What's happen Jeff? No evidence?
VV

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Ossy... The Mercedes was carrying commercial cargo and money. The Sussex was not carrying commercial cargo. That's the difference between the two ships. Apples & Oranges.

Please conclusive evidence about the Mission of Sussex (non commercial)
I mean, documents at sight?? Where? When? Why?

What's happen Jeff? No evidence?
VV

Claudio, You would think something of that importance would be documented somewhere.
Odyssey may have used this as a front to look for Spanish wrecks in the straights.
And as we found out later they raided the Mercedes.
Ossy

 

[Daedalus]

This comes down to one thing , Money, Spain needs money and someone found a lot of it, and they do not even know what ship it came off of . But they are going to try to do anything to get at that Silver and Gold . Even though it was lost 200 years ago ! I look at it this way , if they wanted that ship and it's cargo so bad why did they now go and find it ? In stead they wait in till some one else does and then try to take it.

This, well it was ours 2 , 3 hundred years ago does not cut it anymore . What next is some Country going to use to get at what ?
Is Spain going to say , Hey the U.S is ours because we found it first ? Or is it the Vikings that found it first , do they have a legal claim to anything that was found here ? No .

And if Spain wants what was found then ok , let them pay for the full recovery cost and the Value of the Items found . Then they can have it to do what they want.
I am tired of seeing my Country being told what we can do with our holdings , and I am tired of seeing other First world nations being told what they can do with there holdings .
And I agree with what the one lawyer said, I think a lawyer . Hold Spain guilty for the theft of the Gold and Silver from the Inca's and make Spain pay back the company that found it and give the gold back to who it came from .

Just a money grab as I see it. And this is just going to get worse as time goes on , and the economy gets worse .

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

This comes down to one thing , Money, Spain needs money and someone found a lot of it, and they do not even know what ship it came off of . But they are going to try to do anything to get at that Silver and Gold . Even though it was lost 200 years ago ! I look at it this way , if they wanted that ship and it's cargo so bad why did they now go and find it ? In stead they wait in till some one else does and then try to take it.

This, well it was ours 2 , 3 hundred years ago does not cut it anymore . What next is some Country going to use to get at what ?
Is Spain going to say , Hey the U.S is ours because we found it first ? Or is it the Vikings that found it first , do they have a legal claim to anything that was found here ? No .

And if Spain wants what was found then ok , let them pay for the full recovery cost and the Value of the Items found . Then they can have it to do what they want.
I am tired of seeing my Country being told what we can do with our holdings , and I am tired of seeing other First world nations being told what they can do with there holdings .
And I agree with what the one lawyer said, I think a lawyer . Hold Spain guilty for the theft of the Gold and Silver from the Inca's and make Spain pay back the company that found it and give the gold back to who it came from .

Just a money grab as I see it. And this is just going to get worse as time goes on , and the economy gets worse .

I gather you must be a Native Indian to the America's, Or it's like the kettle calling the pot black !!!!

 

[Vox veritas]

[/quote] Claudio, You would think something of that importance would be documented somewhere.
Odyssey may have used this as a front to look for Spanish wrecks in the straights.
And as we found out later they raided the Mercedes.
Ossy

[/quote]

A sum of money as announced by Odyssey transported in Sussex has to appear reflected in the account books of England as a transaction. Even as a "secret" transaction must appear in the accounts. Part of the treasure carried in the Mercedes was aimed at Bonaparte's France, but is reflected in the accounts of Spain, though a secret operation.
Odyssey never shown publicly any official "original" document of the treasure of Sussex. Or not?

 

[mariner]

Vox,

I have spent extensive time over the past 30 years doing historic research in the main repositories in Britain, and there are lots of actions and activities that are not documented, particularly when the British Sovereign wanted something to be kept secret. Britain wasn't, and isn't, a decomocracy, it's a Monarchy.

Mariner

 

[Vox veritas]

Vox,

I have spent extensive time over the past 30 years doing historic research in the main repositories in Britain, and there are lots of actions and activities that are not documented, particularly when the British Sovereign wanted something to be kept secret. Britain wasn't, and isn't, a decomocracy, it's a Monarchy.

Mariner

Mariner,
Spain was and is a monarchy too, but we can find records. All this does not change the fact that Odyssey never publicly disclosed where are the "secret" documents that attest the shipment of treasure aboard the HMS Sussex.
VV

 

[mariner]

Vox,

I have been involved for ten years with a project concerning two 16th century Spanish ships, and can state with certainty that some of the Spanish documents associated with them were falsified, and that some are almost certainly missing from the Spanish archives, so it is not just a problem with British records.

Nevertheless, it appears from what you say that Odyssey claim to have "secret" papers that they have chosen not to make public. Presumably they think that the adverse effects of doing so outweigh the benefits.

Mariner

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Hi mariner, You must admit, it would make for good excuse to scan around the straights and accidentally find some Spanish treasure galleons.
Do you know what evidence was presented to the admiralty by Odyssey so they could enter into a deal.
Ossy

 

[mariner]

Ossy,

No, I don't know any details about Odyssey's arrangement with the UK about the Sussex. I do know that I was with members of Britain's Heritage department, discussing another project, on the day that Odyssey announced their removal of the 500,000 coins from what is probably the remains of the Mercedes, and how shocked and disappointed they were with this action. Being British, they naturally did not discuss the Sussex project.

Mariner

 

[Vox veritas]

Vox,

I have been involved for ten years with a project concerning two 16th century Spanish ships, and can state with certainty that some of the Spanish documents associated with them were falsified, and that some are almost certainly missing from the Spanish archives, so it is not just a problem with British records.

Nevertheless, it appears from what you say that Odyssey claim to have "secret" papers that they have chosen not to make public. Presumably they think that the adverse effects of doing so outweigh the benefits.

Mariner

Mariner
in all Spanish archives there is a system to legalized photocopies of documents. Attest the archive name, section and bundle.
About Odyssey, as public company should have many interests to make public and visible (with evidence) a cargo document.
But never happened.
VV