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Odyssey Marine Article...

Trinidad,
now I ask you a question: apparently know the texts and documents of the preliminary investigation of the case "Bahia 2" (B2), because that's understood by your previous messages. Is the Grupo de Patrimonio Histórico (Heritage Group) of the Unidad Central Operativa (Central Operational Unit) of the Guardia Civil (Civil Guard) serious professional? Your opinion will be very grateful.
Cheers VV
 

For those who are not familiar with "Bahia 2."
----------------------------------------------------

A band dedicated to expolio of sunk boats falls

The actions lowered thanks to the prisoners

By, FERNANDO PEREZ AVILA

Seville. “1561. Ship Santo Antonio. Seville. Shipwreck in the Guadalquivir”. Fast, nervous, red handwriting blue on a small card of archivist who becomes yellowish with the passage of the years. He is one of 3,000 documents on shipwrecks that the historian had in his power Claudius Bonifacio, Italian settled down in Seville and now stopped by the Civil Guard like presumed member of a band of delinquents dedicated to expolio of submarine archaeological rest. They are the seven members of this organization that have been arrested in this second phase of the operation Bay.

Bonifacio had managed to complete an enormous collection of sunk boats worldwide. For it it used almost 30 years of work, most of them between the File of Indians and the Protocol of Notary's offices. The historian got to say publicly that no longer some needed file to know where they could be left rest of boats. He counted on a series of navigation charts, among them one of the coast of the end San Vicente marked by done crossings ball-point pen. Each cross marks the more or less approximate point where it sank a boat, reconstructed through letters, newspapers, stories of survivors…

An excellent work of historian with illicit aims. The Civil Guard surprised Bonifacio sleepy in his house of Triana and there same she found him, in addition to the documentation, a GPS, a detector of metals very falsified, a measurer of resistance of the subsoil, prisms binocular with incorporated light, cartography, a notebook with annotations and some pieces of archaeological rest. The technological equipment was inside a knapsack that the agents got to baptize like kit of the expoliador.

In his three files of green color they appeared, divided according to the zone in which still they remain the rest, Spanish, English, French and Dutch ships that take centuries resting in waters of the Straits of Gibraltar, next to the Cabo of San Vicente, in the Caribbean, the Pacific and until in India and the Philippines. Of some there are bibliographical references, in almost all they appear the name of the captain and the load that took. Of others one only knows to the name of the boat and the year in which one sank.

The historian was an indispensable piece, the man who provided the key information so that the rest of the band could locate the treasures that soon sold. The pieces had their buyers. In this case one was North American companies, among them the Odissey company, announced in its day its intention to recover the treasures of the HSM Sussex, 1694 in the Straits of Gibraltar with a gold shipment silver and that the ship sunk - the experts think that he took ten tons of gold and one hundred of silver, that could be valued in 4.000 million euros.

The prisoners are the heirs of the pirates of the Louisa, the boat that already was catched at the beginning of year by the Civil Guard as a result of the sale of ten Spanish tubes and from that expolio on great scale in the Straits was organized. Some of the prisoners, among them Claudius Bonifacio and the ringleader of the band in Madrid, Jose Valero, appeared in mass media in several occasions, to the thread of that first stage of the operation Bay. Simply they were rival of that band that fell and tried to eliminate the competition assuring that the business of the cazatesoros had entered decay.

Four people have been arrested and more imputed in Madrid, where a bullet of tube of century XVII has been confiscated, rest of amphoras, a sonar of lateral sweeping, daily navigation charts and of work. In Algeciras a professional submariner and with him fell a robot of submarine shooting to remote control with capacity to work to a depth of 500 meters. Another people have been imputed more in Cabo de Palos (Murcia), where the Civil Guard found a trap, plates and recipientos coming from shipments of ships and necks of amphoras Roman. Also there was a halting in Real City. The Sevillian historian completes the list, perhaps the man who knows more in the world on sunk boats.

5/8/06
 

The following was posted on the Yahoo forum.
------------------------------------------------------

From the Guardian:

"The [Spanish] museum has refused to hand over the [Pissaro] artwork, claiming that it was bought in good faith."

Oh, I see, "good faith."

Interesting. The museum's (which is owned by a Foundation run by the Spanish government), "good faith" overrides the established history of the painting being stolen by the Nazis from a private citizen in return for their being able to escape with their life.

"Good faith" sure is an interesting argument considering that from day one Spanish authorities accused Odyssey of bad faith at every turn while repeatedly refusing the company's numerous attempt over a period of years to share in information about the Sussex and Black Swan projects (even BEFORE the latter was discovered).

"Good faith" is also an interesting argument when, despite Odyssey's many efforts to resolve the illegal entrapment of their ships in Gibraltar ended up having the Spanish Navy seize them anyway, mistreating the crews and throwing the captain in jail, also illegally, as later determined by a Spanish court.

Was Spain acting in "good faith" when James Goold went on TV shortly after the discovery of the Black Swan and accused Odyssey of "looting war graves" and daring to compare it to looting ships at Pearl Harbor? Or how about his constant references to the company's supposed "illegality"?

Was it "good faith" when Spain asked the U.S. government for confidential documents to give it an unfair advantage in its trial against Odyssey in U.S. courts?

"Good faith," indeed.

The depth of hypocrisy of their hypocrisy, and especially their American attorney, is absolutely staggering.
 

Vox:
I appreciate very much the work of Grupo de Patrimonio Histórico of the Unidad Central Operativa of the Guardia Civil and they use to do their job as best as they can. Said this, I'm sure that they not always do their job as they wish but following orders from "above". This is what explain that at least three big recent operations (I'm using my memory, not Google), with hundreds people arrested and thousands of pieces confiscated ended with a judge saying that all was done wrongly. In one of this operations, the main accused, an old and wealthy man, at the end of his trial asked firmly the Consejera de Cultura of Andalusia to be seated by him and admit publicly, before a lot of press, the great contribution of this man to the culture of Andalusia. That was a woman in red, believe me. You, Vox, are still in time of being favoured for this kind of circumstances.
 

Jeff K said:
For those who are not familiar with "Bahia 2."
----------------------------------------------------
Click to expand...

Hey Jeff,
this is what pretended the Odyssey Spanish friends, so they had to sweep all those who were telling the truth. Put another way, close our mouth: you don't remember when Odyssey was saying they were (sweating) working in the middle of the Strait of Gibraltar and a journalist took a picture of Odyssey Explorer on dock with a newspaper of Gibraltar (and the date) showing that they were lying? And yet, when they said everything was OK with the Junta de Andalucia and there was a PR from the Junta denying? If you want I can hang all this lies in this forum. And some more ....
Cheers VV
 

Jeff K said:
The following was posted on the Yahoo forum.
------------------------------------------------------

From the Guardian:

"The [Spanish] museum has refused to hand over the [Pissaro] artwork, claiming that it was bought in good faith."

Oh, I see, "good faith."

Interesting. The museum's (which is owned by a Foundation run by the Spanish government), "good faith" overrides the established history of the painting being stolen by the Nazis from a private citizen in return for their being able to escape with their life.

"Good faith" sure is an interesting argument considering that from day one Spanish authorities accused Odyssey of bad faith at every turn while repeatedly refusing the company's numerous attempt over a period of years to share in information about the Sussex and Black Swan projects (even BEFORE the latter was discovered).

"Good faith" is also an interesting argument when, despite Odyssey's many efforts to resolve the illegal entrapment of their ships in Gibraltar ended up having the Spanish Navy seize them anyway, mistreating the crews and throwing the captain in jail, also illegally, as later determined by a Spanish court.

Was Spain acting in "good faith" when James Goold went on TV shortly after the discovery of the Black Swan and accused Odyssey of "looting war graves" and daring to compare it to looting ships at Pearl Harbor? Or how about his constant references to the company's supposed "illegality"?

Was it "good faith" when Spain asked the U.S. government for confidential documents to give it an unfair advantage in its trial against Odyssey in U.S. courts?

"Good faith," indeed.

The depth of hypocrisy of their hypocrisy, and especially their American attorney, is absolutely staggering.
Click to expand...
You make me laugh Jeff :laughing7: That's why Odyssey striped every thing off the ship before it left Gibraltar,
Good faith, Yer right !
Unfair advantage in its trail, If they didn't lie, what were they hiding ?? Hypocrisy all right !
Ossy
 

They took everything off because they knew that they couldn't trust the Spanish, and they were right to do so. The Guardia Civil confiscated all the ships papers, and NEVER returned them. In a way you can't blame the Spanish for thinking everybody is a looter. Their Visigoth ancestors were experts in looting. They looted Rome, before arriving in Spain. Of course, the Romans did the same thing for centuries. :D
 

Jeff K said:
They took everything off because they knew that they couldn't trust the Spanish, and they were right to do so. The Guardia Civil confiscated all the ships papers, and NEVER returned them. In a way you can't blame the Spanish for thinking everybody is a looter. Their Visigoth ancestors were experts in looting. They looted Rome, before arriving in Spain. Of course, the Romans did the same thing for centuries. :D
Click to expand...
They couldn't trust the Spanish finding all the proof they needed :laughing7: You forget Treasure quest showed them
striping the ship clean, and only left want they wanted the the Spanish to find.
You have Italian blood or Looter DNA :laughing7: :laughing7:
We are so predictable Jeff, Should come down and visit Australia.
Ossy
 

Ossy... Not true. Odyssey only salvaged about have the artifacts, and were going to go back to the site to finish the work. The Spanish put a stop to that when they embargoed their ships in Gibraltar.

From the link above your post.

"Nasser also indicated that should the Ministry of
Culture be receptive to compromise, Odyssey representatives
would offer to sail their vessels into Spanish waters to
allow a search while avoiding an international dispute over
the waters around Gibraltar. Nasser said that Odyssey was
also prepared to invite GoS along on its next salvaging trip
to the Black Swan site. However, Nasser caveated, these
offers would only be given if the Spanish guarantee that they
will not detain Odyssey ships."
 

Jeff K said:
They took everything off because they knew that they couldn't trust the Spanish, and they were right to do so. The Guardia Civil confiscated all the ships papers, and NEVER returned them. In a way you can't blame the Spanish for thinking everybody is a looter. Their Visigoth ancestors were experts in looting. They looted Rome, before arriving in Spain. Of course, the Romans did the same thing for centuries. :D
Click to expand...

That's History. One day a nomad looking at a walled city with hunger and hate, the next generation a barbaric conqueror. Then, repeat mode.

Europe, Christianity and Western Civilization have ended, hello China, India and Brazil...
 

Well, incredible but this "information" of Calero is good to OME. At last, we know that OME has not only one permission to research but two. Now, Vox will say that they were wrong permissions, from the spanish Foreign Office, not the Culture Ministry but Calero clarifies this and he mentions the strength of the position of OME counting on the international law. So, there were permissions and all were done under the umbrella of the international law. And the former Ministry of Culture, Calvo, shows her ignorance about this issue when she talks about the obligation of having two divers from the Junta of Andalusia to go ¡¡ 900 METERS DEEP !! to closely watch what the divers (?) of OME could do on the bottom of the Strait of Gibraltar.
 

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