Odyssey Marine Article...

trinidad, you make some great points, and I understand you perfectly.
I asked Claudio a while ago to show some proof of the Mercedes site he had found in Portuguese waters, But said all his
documents and photos had been taken by the Spanish police. ??
Claudio, how do you know the site you found in Portuguese waters was the Mercedes, What did you find to verify this.
Ossy
 

Better yet, ask him who sent the police after him...

and exactly, why is there no doubt on the location?

While Odyssey claims to have found the site in deep waters, the photomosaic that Odyssey provided includes an image of shallow water fish...
 

MORE AND BEYOND OSSY said:
Garneo rubioss, Red Gurnard lives at depths of 200 meters small juveniles perfer shallow waters and are often
caught in shallow harbours.
Ocean floor photos from black swan.
 

Jeff K said:
As I recall, Alvear wrote the account of the battle some 30 years after the fact, so his memory may not be accurate. (Panfilo may be able to verify when he wrote the account.) Odyssey found the coins outside of the Portuguese contiguous zone, and there is no doubt about that. Spain may have sent a ship out to the site in 2007 to verify this, according to the Portuguese article that Alexandre posted. I'm not sure if they did, but they have the exact location where the coins were found. An inspection of the site will show this, because there are many more artifacts still there.

There are more documents written by Spanish naval officers. Were written a few days after the battle, the same as the Alvear own logbook, a copy of the original I own, and was donated by the family to me.
VV
 

Well, so we have here a strange case of ubiquity. Shipwrecks that can be at two places at the same time. And it sounds strange too that the Ministry of Culture were negotiating with the Vox´s team for the research and recovery of one of La Mercedes "materialization" and the same Ministry were so closed to an agreement with OME to do the same over "the other" La Mercedes. It reminds me that quote of a politician that said "well, he may be a S.O.B., but he's our S.O.B...". You just have to substitute S.O.B. for looter (or underwater recovery company), as you prefer, and one start to understand a lot of things. Oh my god, what a lot of crap in the name of cheap patriotism!
 

Speaking of crap, just exactly what is a 'looter'?
 

Friends,
there is only one "undeniable" fact. The actions (whatever they are) of Odyssey with Sussex, Mercedes, etc. have destroyed the industry of so-called "treasure hunters". Maybe he is out the true intention: to finish with them!
Cheers VV
 

trinidad said:
Well, so we have here a strange case of ubiquity. Shipwrecks that can be at two places at the same time. And it sounds strange too that the Ministry of Culture were negotiating with the Vox´s team for the research and recovery of one of La Mercedes "materialization" and the same Ministry were so closed to an agreement with OME to do the same over "the other" La Mercedes. It reminds me that quote of a politician that said "well, he may be a S.O.B., but he's our S.O.B...". You just have to substitute S.O.B. for looter (or underwater recovery company), as you prefer, and one start to understand a lot of things. Oh my god, what a lot of crap in the name of cheap patriotism!

Trinidad,
in everything related Odyssey (Gibraltar, Mercedes, ghost treasure, etc.) there was strange facts. Fortunately there were those who have stored, with patience and perseverance, many conflicting data that demonstrate these facts.
It has come to the "judicial malfeasance" to favor "some" against each other.
Cheers VV
 

Vox, I was waiting for an evasive answer from you but this last one...Gosh! It's almost maquiavelic. OME against the whole "treasurehunter" community. Not that your team (glorious team that goes from one ridiculous situation to another ¡¡Remember Rande this last summer!!) expends its energy mining OME jobs, using ministerial friends to eliminate competence (¿exchanging what?) and planning how to get the situation of being the only commercial underwater recovery company in Spain. It's this what you're talking about when you talk about "strange facts and malfeasance to favor "some" against each other? No, no, I almost forget that you all are patriots and it's patriotism what moves you and your "team". Well, I think I finally found the real crap and the real looters. All this said respectfully, of course.
But we almost forgot what we were talking about: where La Mercedes lies? Who is lying here, you or the Ministry of Culture, or the specialist in numismatic sent by Spain? Does James Goold knows your 2005 recovery plan of La Mercedes in shallow waters in Portugal with the support of the spanish Ministry of Culture? Simples questions, simples answers. Y/N.
 

trinidad said:
Vox, I was waiting for an evasive answer from you but this last one...Gosh! It's almost maquiavelic. OME against the whole "treasurehunter" community. Not that your team (glorious team that goes from one ridiculous situation to another ¡¡Remember Rande this last summer!!) expends its energy mining OME jobs, using ministerial friends to eliminate competence (¿exchanging what?) and planning how to get the situation of being the only commercial underwater recovery company in Spain. It's this what you're talking about when you talk about "strange facts and malfeasance to favor "some" against each other? No, no, I almost forget that you all are patriots and it's patriotism what moves you and your "team". Well, I think I finally found the real crap and the real looters. All this said respectfully, of course.
But we almost forgot what we were talking about: where La Mercedes lies? Who is lying here, you or the Ministry of Culture, or the specialist in numismatic sent by Spain? Does James Goold knows your 2005 recovery plan of La Mercedes in shallow waters in Portugal with the support of the spanish Ministry of Culture? Simples questions, simples answers. Y/N.

Trinidad,
I have the habit of speaking with knowledge of the facts.
Apparently you have read the documents of the preliminary inquiries "Bahia 2".
Very well, but I've only read the part that interested or better. one side of the coin. I repeat: everything is connected. Time will tell. Be patient.
VV
 

Courtesy of PirateDiver.
 

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trinidad said:
Vox, I was waiting for an evasive answer from you but this last one...Gosh! It's almost maquiavelic. OME against the whole "treasurehunter" community. Not that your team (glorious team that goes from one ridiculous situation to another ¡¡Remember Rande this last summer!!) expends its energy mining OME jobs, using ministerial friends to eliminate competence (¿exchanging what?) and planning how to get the situation of being the only commercial underwater recovery company in Spain. It's this what you're talking about when you talk about "strange facts and malfeasance to favor "some" against each other? No, no, I almost forget that you all are patriots and it's patriotism what moves you and your "team". Well, I think I finally found the real crap and the real looters. All this said respectfully, of course.
But we almost forgot what we were talking about: where La Mercedes lies? Who is lying here, you or the Ministry of Culture, or the specialist in numismatic sent by Spain? Does James Goold knows your 2005 recovery plan of La Mercedes in shallow waters in Portugal with the support of the spanish Ministry of Culture? Simples questions, simples answers. Y/N.


And what remains to be ......

http://translate.google.com/transla...egia/EE/UU/elpepuesp/20101208elpepunac_13/Tes
 

Legal problem

Undoubtedly there is a legal problem. Someone has declared a finding under Spanish cultural law. Time will tell!
 

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Well, as cables and things go, nothing is to clear on this story. And the paper you show, Vox, the Find Communication, it's like a joke. No position, no claim. In Strait of Gibraltar area, two hundreds meters could mean to be over a shipwreck or another completely different. And if your friend didn't give the exact position before OME worked over, your friend only have a tricky paper. Plus: remember what happens to Ballard with the find of Titanic?
 

trinidad said:
Well, as cables and things go, nothing is to clear on this story. And the paper you show, Vox, the Find Communication, it's like a joke. No position, no claim. In Strait of Gibraltar area, two hundreds meters could mean to be over a shipwreck or another completely different. And if your friend didn't give the exact position before OME worked over, your friend only have a tricky paper. Plus: remember what happens to Ballard with the find of Titanic?

The document clearly states that positions are available to the authorities ...... know perfectly very well those positions.
Most importantly, who first declared. It's the same story as the discovery of America: the clerk testified the discovery. Spain took possession of new lands.
On this statement (2003) there was silence from the administration. So?
If necessary, would be released each position of the Strait of Gibraltar as others.
Odyssey released all targets in the Strait of Gibraltar to Spain?

Cheers VV
 

Well, that paper only states that your friend says that he has the positions. It doesn't mean he really has them but, anyway, with that paper your friend just has the possibility of going to a long, long trial. No guarantee of winning. But with a good lawyer, you can fight.
On the other side we have OME. OME was in the area from 1999. Worked over a very few positions on the Strait of Gibraltar. With authorisation from Spain (for works) and England (for the shipwreck). Every little step OME made, was communicated to England. Plus, in the beginning, even a couple of guys the spanish Navy sail with OME. OME communicated always to the Guardia Civil the area they will work over. And now, with a paper of 2003, five years after OME started its research in the Strait of Gibraltar, with its positions previously communicated to the authorities and local "warriors" sailing besides the boat of OME, getting its exact GPS position of work, you come here with that paper? In fact, when somebody sailing close to the Ocean Explorer gives you the position of work, TWO KILOMETERS away from one of the positions your friend declared to have the Finder Right, your friend says that Ocean Alert is in an area that BELONG to him because 2000 meters is not too far. In sea, 2000 meters, talking about shipwreck recovery, is the Milky Way. And you, and your friend, want to convince us that you have a right over anything that lies on the botton of the Strait of Gibraltar? You both better look for a very good lawyer to convince a judge.
I attache something that has to do with all this we are talking about (sorry, in spanish, from the Diary of the National Congress. It talks about authorisations and positions control of OME works):

BOCG. Congreso de los Diputados, serie D, núm. 629, de 31/10/2007
(184) Pregunta escrita Congreso

AUTOR: Rodríguez-Salmones Cabeza, Beatriz (GP).


Respuesta:

El Ministerio de Asuntos Exteriores y de Cooperación envió la Nota Verbal n.º 241/18, de 28 de julio, a la Embajada de los Estados Unidos en Madrid para responder a la Nota Verbal n.º 118, de 2 de marzo del mismo año, por la que dicha Embajada solicitaba que España autorizara la continuación de los trabajos que la empresa "Odyssey Marine Exploration" estaba llevando a cabo con autorización española desde 1999.


En la Nota Verbal 241/18, el Ministerio de Asuntos Exteriores y de Cooperación autorizaba a la empresa "Odyssey Marine Exploration" a realizar operaciones de identificación del pecio del "HMS Sussex", sujeto a una serie de condiciones y exigencias determinadas por la Junta de Andalucía y el Ministerio de Cultura.


Madrid, 10 de octubre de 2007.-El Secretario de Estado de Relaciones con las Cortes.

(184) Pregunta escrita Congreso

AUTOR: Rodríguez-Salmones Cabeza, Beatriz (GP).


Respuesta:

Durante el mes de marzo del año en curso, por patrulleras del Servicio Marítimo de la Comandancia de Algeciras, se controló esporádicamente la permanencia, dentro de los límites marcados en cada momento, de los barcos de la empresa "Odissey Marine Exploration Inc.".


Las zonas marcadas en cada ocasión se hallaban situadas entre Zona Económica Exclusiva, Alta mar y Mar territorial.


Dichos barcos se encontraban fuera de los medios del Sistema Integral de Vigilancia Exterior (SIVE).


Madrid, 16 de octubre de 2007.-El Secretario de Estado de Relaciones con las Cortes.
 

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