Odyssey Marine Article...

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Love the dog, we agree to disagree, the full story will come out!
Sam

 

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Thats the hypocracy of spains actions. There are currently 3 Spanish warships being salvaged in S. America, the Philippines, Bahamas and Florida, and soon, Cuba but Spain does not say one word about them!

Very good question scubasalvor, I wish I knew. Odyssey turning up on Spain's door step may have hit a nerve.
I wouldn't complain to much, if they decided to claim their war ships you would be out of a job.
what Odyssey did was under handed, who knows if Spain Win's this court battle they may go after all their ships that
are being sacked, you may then have to turn to salvaging your own US ships.
Ossy

 

[mariner]

Well, no doubt who won this PR battle ... Odyssey, and by a mile.

The crucial question, from a legal standpoint, is whether the ship was performing commercial as well as State duties. I suspect it was, but I also think that Odyssey could have avoided a lot of the problems and still ended up with the same result by bringing up the key artifacts that would have identified the wreck, and having the debate about who owns the salvaged cargo in court and in private.

I look forward to watching the ongoing debate. Meanwhile, that episode made great television viewing.

Mariner

 

[jeff k]

I do apologize if this offends someone.

Atrocities of the Spanish Conquistadors in the West Indies c. 1513


This account is from Bartolome de Las Casas. He was a missionary and conquistador. He took part in the conquest of Cuba. These accounts happened after this and one has to believe he was very troubled by what he witnessed. There is no doubt about it; the Spanish were cruel in the conquest for gold and land. Events like these listed below did nothing to help relations between the vastly different cultures. Instead it was a major reason why the Taino and Arawak peoples became extinct.

The Spaniards with their horses, their spears and lances, began to commit murders and other strange cruelties. They entered into towns and villages, sparing neither children nor old men and women. They ripped their bellies and cut them to pieces as if they had been slaughtering lambs in a field. They made bets with each other over who could thrust a sword into the middle of a man or who could cut off his head with one stroke. They took little ones by their heels and crushed their heads against the cliffs. Others they threw into the rivers laughing and mocking them as they tumbled into the water. They put everyone they met to the edge of the sword.

One time I saw four or five important native nobles roasted and broiled upon makeshift grills. The cried out pitifully. This thing troubled our Captain that he could not sleep. He commanded that they be strangled. The Sergeant (I know him and his friends from Seville) would not strangle them but put bullets into their mouths instead.

I have seen all these things and others infinite. Most tried to flee. They tried to hide in the mountains. They tried to flee from these men. Men who were empty of all pity, behaving like savage beasts. They are nothing more than slaughterers and enemies of mankind. These evil men had even taught their hounds, fierce dogs, to tear natives to pieces at first sight.

AND, when, although rare, the Indians put to death some Spaniards upon good right and law of justice; the Spaniards made an agreement that for every one Spaniard killed they had to slay one hundred Indians.

One time the Indians came to meet us and receive us with food and good cheer! Instead, the devil, which had put himself in the Spaniards, put them all to the edge of the sword in my presence, without any cause whatsoever, more than three thousand souls. I saw there such great cruelties, that never any man living either have or shall see the like.

In three or four months (myself being present) there died more than six thousand children, which the Spanish had sent into the Gold mines.

 

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Mr Kramer a little research for you !
http://www.lastoftheindependents.com/sandcreek.htm
and
http://www.populistamerica.com/atrocities_from_vietnam_to_gaza
the list is endless. " let he that is without sin cast the first stone"
Ossy

 

[mariner]

In Mexico at least the behaviour of Cortes was much better than that of Montezuma and his Aztecs. Cortes was fierce in battle, but mostly magnaminous in Victory. The Aztecs were extremely cruel to their surrounding nations, whom they kept as a ready supply of human sacrifices.

When Cortes arrived back after his expedition to Honduras, he was widely welcomed by the Mexican Indians, and his will will make enlightening reading for those who thought that the Spaniards were nothing but cruel.

There were excesses, and Pizarro and Gusman were extremely cruel, but as always it is a mistake to tar everybody with the same brush.

La Casas was not quite the independent observer he makes himself out to be, and the catholic Church had its own agenda of cruelty and oppression, with some exceptions.

And, as others have pointed out, the white treatment of the Native population of North America was not always something to be proud of.

Mariner

 

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Greg Stemm told me that when Odyssey was surveying near Gibraltar the Spanish Navy kept sending out bigger and bigger ships to try and scare them off. After it got to be too much, our State Dept. made a few calls and got the Brits to send a couple of harriers out to buzz the Spanish vessels, it did the trick that time anyway.

It will be interesting to see what happens when Spanish wrecks are located in other areas of the world now, will Spain send ships to try and grab treasure or just rely on lawyers?



Pirate Diver
Interesting story Pirate Diver, I have never heard of it? you think it would have been in the media.
Interesting the Spanish navy have the Aegis Weapon System made In good old USA. I wonder
who was more worried, Harriers are not that fast.
Ossy

 

[Philvis]

Well my wife and I watched the Black Swan episode last night that I taped on Thursday. She really could care a less about the whole treasure thing to be honest, but it was something to watch. After about 30 minutes she turned to me and said, "How is Spain claiming treasure they pillaged from us?" My wife is Peruvian by the way. She went on to say it was the Indians who were forced to mine the gold and silver to begin with, so Spain shouldn't have rights to something that went under 200 years ago since it came from Peru. Just about that time the narrator went on to say that Peru filed their claim as well. That was pretty classic.

I am not anti-Spanish or anything, but the political game they were "trying" to play was pretty bad. The best part of the whole thing was their initial reaction was because Odyssey they were certain Odyssey was in their territorial waters where the treasure was found and then it turned into the sovereign nation argument. I know some people say it was edited to look bad on Spain, but I am sorry, no amount of editing couldn't have made them look good short of cutting out mention of them. Having 19 reporters on the Odyssey Explorer was well played.

 

[diverlynn]

I have an interview tape that Paco did about his trip to Odyssey to identify the coins but it is a .bup file and I can not open it. If anyone can convert to a regular file please let me know. It is also in spanish.


Diverlynn

 

[Saturna]

I'm not sure if this will work for that type of file, but you could try this site...


http://media-convert.com/


Jay

 

[sabre15]

Yeah, after thursdays episode on the Black Swan I started thinking about Spains many claims. What will be next, will Spain want all of the horses back that were left in North America? The horses we have here in Florida, am I encroaching on Spanish property or Heritage by owning a horse?

 

[jeff k]

Tampa Tribune Article...

http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/apr/08/081145/tv-series-means-business-odyssey-marine/news-breaking

 

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" we're marine archaeologists and we're the best in the world at it"
yea right !

 

[Saturna]

Well, maybe they could say 'We're finders of long lost ships and we're the best in the world at it.'

More accurate ?








Jay

 

[Mudpie]

Re: Odyssey Explorer

The odyssey Explorer is registered in Bermuda, but has an American crew, so the US Navy can defend it, as it did with the Mersk Alabama.

BTW, Is the Odyssey Explorer in dry dock at Portland, England?

 

[JahMan2003]

Odyssey losing money?

Hey, just saw this: http://www.tampabay.com/news/business/article983200.ece

Sorry if it's been posted before, Just can't believe that the best deep water t-hunters in the world lost 24.8 mill last year? And I've seen on other sites that the director is still making over six figures despite these losses? Sounds very familiar in these times.

 

[Darren in NC]

Posting a loss isn't always a bad thing. Loss from being wasteful is (as are many companies today). But loss from investing (which would be typical of a treasure hunting company) isn't always bad. For instance, if you invest 28 mil to search for a 300 mil wreck and don't find it this year, then you post that as a loss. But then if you locate that 300 mil in January (or just after the fiscal year), then that "loss" was well worth it. Of course, I'm oversimplifying, but I trust you get the idea. I have no ties with Odyssey. I just hope it brings clarity to their scenario.

 

[Voldbjerg]

Re: Odyssey Explorer

The Mersk Alabama is a US registered vessel, thus the US Navy can defend it. The Explorer is registered in another country, so that is does not have to pay its fair share of taxes to the United States. It does not get the full benefit of the Maritime Security Program (MSP) as loyal American businesses. It is that old Flag of Convenience thing.

Actually The Alabama is owned by a Danish Corporation - Mærsk. So you could argue that it was actually operating under Convenience flag

/V

 

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http://www.salem-news.com/articles/april282009/treasure_hunter_4-28-09.php

 

[divewrecks]

Magnometer?