Odyssey Marine Article...

Hi Lynn, good to see you back and in good health. If you need help with the translation more than happy to help.
Cheers, Ossy
 

hmmm said:
i have another question, the coins are from 1803, and came from south America , some where, does that mean they where minted in the Americas, using silver mined in the Americans, :read2: if that is so, what country is stamped on the coins.
Spanish Colonial Coins ' Bust' or Portrait type, what Odyssey have shown us so far, they are minted in Lima ( Peru )
check their web site, they are selling replicas.
Ossy
 

:coffee2:
THE replica coins are from 1779 .
:read2:
 

Judge Pizzo has recommended the following:

RECOMMENDED:

1. Spain’s motion to dismiss (Doc. 131) and motion to vacate the arrest warrant (Doc. 132) be granted.

2. Odyssey’s amended complaint (Doc. 25) be dismissed and the warrant of arrest (Doc. 5) be vacated.

3. All claims against the res be denied without prejudice.

4. Odyssey, as the substitute custodian, be directed to return the res to Spain within ten
days or as mutually agreed.

Judge Merryday will make the final ruling.

Here's Odyssey's response.

Odyssey Will Object to Magistrate's Recommendation to Dismiss "Black Swan" Case
On Wednesday June 3, 2009, 7:57 pm EDT

TAMPA, Fla.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Odyssey Marine Exploration, Inc. (Nasdaq:OMEX - News), pioneers in the field of deep-ocean shipwreck exploration has announced plans to file a written objection to the U.S. Federal Court Magistrate’s recommendation that Spain’s Motion to Dismiss the “Black Swan” case be granted and that the property recovered be returned to Spain. The recommendation which was filed June 3, 2009 concludes that the court lacks jurisdiction to hear the case.

Odyssey brought the “Black Swan” case to federal court in the spring of 2007 after discovering a site in the Atlantic Ocean with over 500,000 gold and silver coins. Spain filed a claim in the case asserting that the cargo came from the Nuestra Senora de las Mercedes, a Spanish vessel which exploded in 1804. Despite the absence of a vessel at the site, the District Court Magistrate has indicated that he believes that there is sufficient evidence to confirm that the site is that of the Mercedes and that the vessel and its cargo are subject to sovereign immunity.

“We will object to the Magistrate’s recommendation,” said Melinda MacConnel, Odyssey’s Vice President and General Counsel. “This is clearly a case where there are many relevant issues of fact that have been disputed, including the issue of whether the Mercedes was on a commercial mission and whether the property recovered belonged to Spain. I presume that the claimants in the case who assert ownership rights by virtue of the fact that their ancestors owned a portion of the cargo will join us in objecting.”

“I’m very surprised,” said Odyssey’s CEO, Greg Stemm. “Odyssey has done everything by the book. For the Court to find that enough evidence exists to conclusively identify the site as the Mercedes and that neither Odyssey nor the claimants who owned the property have any legal interest is just wrong. I’m confident that ultimately the judge or the appellate court will see the legal and evidentiary flaws in Spain’s claim, and we’ll be back to argue the merits of the case.”

Odyssey will file its objection and will continue to vigorously defend its rights to what it has legally recovered and submitted to the jurisdiction of the court.
 

Thanks Jeff for the post of this decision.

Well it's the correct decision for this law suit. (fly by night and suffer the consequences, if they had done the right thing they would have been victorious a year and a half ago and the stock would have been a great investment)

But I do not think that Spain should get the proceeds either, so I hope that the next episode in this now ridiculous saga the judge donates the proceeds to charity (I have a very good one if they are stuck for options).

On another note I wonder if Doc will now counter sue OMEX? could be just as big as the treasure case

Of course it is not over yet, many hundreds of thousands of $ to be paid to the lawyers still.
 

Big news Jeff, I know most here won't be happy, but the evidence was their, The Mercedes is
more important to Spain than the coins, its the tragedy and the deaths of its people who perished
after the unprovoked attack by the English, As we say down here " Less We forget "
I do hope Spain compensates Odyssey for recovery costs and conservation costs. It will be interesting to see what happens next.
Ossy
 

MORE AND BEYOND OSSY said:
Mariner it has been proved by Spain's documentation which Odyssey did not expect that the commercial goods and royal
goods, where under protection by the crown under orders from navel command, England knew that Spain was being
drawn into the conflict with France and was using Navel war ships to protect its money.
Admission to this by English reports of allowing Spanish merchant ships to pass with no harm.
It's hard to argue it's commercial goods only when Spain have shown documentation to the contrary, odyssey did not
expect this with the Mercedes. I will give it to Spain they keep good documentation.
Odyssey better do their research a little more carefully if they are going after Spanish wrecks.
Cheers :Ossy

Ossy,

I have to hand it to you for calling this correctly several months ago. Personally, I thought it was going to go the other way, although I did not approve of the way Odyssey went about things. However, the fat lady might not have sung yet. I am sure that Odyssey will appeal, but I doubt that the Court of Appeals will even hear he case, let alone overturn it. I don't think there is an automatic right of appeal. I think there has to be a legally acceptable basis. I remember that in the old SeaHunt case, which was in the Court of Appeals, David Horan had prepared an appeal to the Supreme Court, but they refused to hear it.

Incidentally, I don't think that the Court can arbitrarily give the coins to a third party. If it continues to be declared a Sovereign Vessel, then Spain will get the loot.

Mariner
 

Hillary Clinton is the Secretary of State. Spain's lawyer in this case is a lawyer for Hillary as well. Appeal for about 42 months and then the Court will see things differently. When the decision is reversed, disperse the goods. End of story. Silver and gold will not raise the dead... but it will raise your taxes.
 

Odyssey Provides Additional Update on "Black Swan" Case
Thursday June 4, 2009, 3:38 pm EDT

TAMPA, Fla.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Since the announcement of the Magistrate’s recommendation in the “Black Swan” case, intense international media coverage has led to many questions that Odyssey Marine Exploration, Inc. (NASDAQ:OMEX - News) would like to address.

What was this recent court filing by the Magistrate?

This was not a ruling in the case. The recent filing was a recommendation by U.S. Federal Court Magistrate Mark A. Pizzo that Spain’s Motion to Dismiss the “Black Swan” case be granted. The recommendation which was filed June 3, 2009, opines that the Court lacks jurisdiction to hear the case. Odyssey and any other interested parties may file written objections to the recommendation before any ruling is issued, and Odyssey intends to file an objection.

How do you feel about the recommendation?

While we respect the Magistrate’s experience, judges are not infallible, as evidenced by the multitude of verdicts that are overturned each year in appellate court. We believe key pieces of evidence were ignored or discounted that show the Mercedes WAS clearly on a commercial mission when she sank and that the majority of cargo (coins) aboard the ship was owned by PRIVATE individuals, not the government. “Returning” the coins to the Spanish Government when they never owned them defies logic and reason. We also disagree with the Magistrate’s apparent assumption that a vessel was found at the site. Furthermore, the Magistrate accepted facts as presented by Spain without giving Odyssey an opportunity to cross examine witnesses at a trial.

Do you plan to appeal if the Magistrate’s recommendations are followed by the Judge when he makes his ruling?

Yes. This recommendation is far from the end of the “Black Swan” case. We believe that the judge or the appellate court will see the legal and evidentiary flaws in Spain’s claim, and we’ll be back to argue the merits of the case. We will continue to vigorously defend our rights to what we have legally recovered and submitted to the jurisdiction of the Court.

Does this mean the case will drag on even longer?

This does not have a significant impact on our timelines or legal plans. We fully expected Spain to file an appeal if their Motion to Dismiss was denied, and so we have been planning and budgeting for an appeal in the case.

Are the other claimants in the case planning to object as well?

While we presume that the claimants in the case who assert ownership rights by virtue of the fact that their ancestors owned a portion of the cargo will join us in objecting, we cannot comment for them or for Peru.

Does this affect your current operations?

No, our shipwreck operations continue to be focused in the “Atlas” search area with both of our ships working in the English Channel. We also have been planning additional operations for 2009 in other areas of the world.

Does this affect your plans for an HMS Victory agreement?

No. We are continuing to work cooperatively with the UK Government toward a negotiated agreement as stated in the filing by their attorneys. As demonstrated by our partnering agreement on the shipwreck of HMS Sussex, a sovereign immune British warship, we have a history of working cooperatively with the UK Government. An overview of this agreement is available at www.shipwreck.net/pam.

How does this affect your balance sheet?

It does not have any effect on our balance sheet. The “Black Swan” coins were never treated as assets on our balance sheet.

Does this recommendation mean you will be changing your business model?

No. This particular situation is unique and our portfolio of potential shipwreck targets includes many merchant wrecks more like the SS Republic where there are no government ownership issues. In the case of the SS Republic, we obtained title to the shipwreck and its cargo less than eight months after the discovery of the shipwreck site.

There are also other governments who are open to cooperating with Odyssey, and who are enthusiastic about our potential partnership proposals. Our model is especially attractive in today’s economic climate, because we use no taxpayer money and fund recovery, archaeology, conservation and education.

What other shipwreck projects are you working on?

We currently have two ships working in the “Atlas” search area utilizing new technology integrated into the ZEUS platform which are expected to enhance search and inspection capabilities. Operations aboard Odyssey Explorer are currently being filmed for the Discovery Channel series “Treasure Quest.”

The “Atlas” search area contains at least five high value targets, one of which, HMS Victory, was located last year by Odyssey. We are continuing to search for the other high value targets and we are conducting additional operations intended to help identify a site already located.

We plan to resume work on the North Carolina project later this year. Shipwreck exploration firm and Odyssey partner, Intersal, Inc. has received a renewal of its exploration permit from the North Carolina Department of Cultural Resources for a site off the coast of North Carolina and additional surrounding areas, some of which correlate with Odyssey's “Firefly” shipwreck project. Odyssey has an agreement with Intersal, Inc. to pursue operations under this permit and to share in substantial research and data acquired by Intersal over the years relating to the target shipwreck and the work completed to date in the permit area.

The area covered by this permit and arrest is located near Odyssey's current “Firefly” project, which was acquired by Odyssey from BDJ Discovery Group in 2007 and includes one arrested site that has already produced a small number of gold and silver artifacts. The Intersal site and permit area may also be related to the high-value, Colonial-era merchant vessel believed to be located in the area. The agreements with BDJ and Intersal are similar but separate and the areas do not overlap.

In addition we have several other shipwreck projects in development which may lead to operations in 2009.
 

The next hearing will be interesting. I still believe it should be finders keepers for obviously abandoned ships. When I say abandoned, I mean the country of origin of the ship has not made any attempts to salvage, make it a national historic site, etc.

If Odyssey is not given the lions share in the end, I think that Peru and the descendants of the money should get it. The gold came from Peru, more than likely as a result of the toil of the natives there. If Spain can claim something over 200 years old, Peru should have the better claim being the gold came from there. Since Spain wants to bring technicalities and sovereign rights arguments, there is no better argument than the gold originating from your country through labor of people in your country and on top of that, minted in your country.

Otherwise, if the ruling is in favor of Spain in the end after the objections are heard, I would promptly go back to the spot I found the coins and dump it. Spain argues that Odyssey took their heritage and robbed a grave site etc., so return it. We then can wait to see how goes the integrity of the Spanish government. If they go and salvage, they are hypcrocrites. If they do not, then we can at least say their hearts were in the right place.
 

If odyssey doesnt get to keep their find....then I agree it should go back to Peru where it belongs. In fact, why not pressure the Spanish Govt to return the rest of the treasures that it took. If we believe in restitution for war crimes from WW2 and returning treasures of cultural heritage then why shouldnt the decendants of Peru receive that justice. If there is no statute of limitations for abandonmet of shipwrecks or soveign immunity then why should there be one against war crimes and cultural pillaging against Peru. The arguement "We conquered them" just doesnt do it, The Nazis conquered half of Europe.
Sorry about the soap box, and I understand some people in Spain thinking they are being robbed, but those who were truly done wrong were the natives of Peru. I dont even have a dog in this fight and I believe if we have to go down this road then we owe it to defend those to whom the treasure really belongs...... Once again, If we have to go down this road...and it shoulnt be rewarded to the third set of owners "Odyssey", then it should go back to the original owner.....Peru
 

I guess we would have to wouldnt we? Not that I would want to, but in my eyes pandoras box has been opened. I see you fully understand my point. Anything less would make us hipocrites. Just like Three kids arguing over a baseball card there is only one true owner. To me the two possibilities are that odyssey get the baseball card or the original owner(peru) gets the baseball card. If the american judicial system believes that the original owner should get back the goods, then we should give our land back to the native americans.

SWR said:
4theMoney said:
If odyssey doesnt get to keep their find....then I agree it should go back to Peru where it belongs. In fact, why not pressure the Spanish Govt to return the rest of the treasures that it took. If we believe in restitution for war crimes from WW2 and returning treasures of cultural heritage then why shouldnt the decendants of Peru receive that justice. If there is no statute of limitations for abandonmet of shipwrecks or soveign immunity then why should there be one against war crimes and cultural pillaging against Peru. The arguement "We conquered them" just doesnt do it, The Nazis conquered half of Europe.
Sorry about the soap box, and I understand some people in Spain thinking they are being robbed, but those who were truly done wrong were the natives of Peru. I dont even have a dog in this fight and I believe if we have to go down this road then we owe it to defend those to whom the treasure really belongs...... Once again, If we have to go down this road...and it shoulnt be rewarded to the third set of owners "Odyssey", then it should go back to the original owner.....Peru

Nice soapbox...but, when do we start giving America back to the Indians? Selective conquering is highly overrated :P
 

SWR said: Nice soapbox...but, when do we start giving America back to the Indians? Selective conquering is highly overrated

You are right on with this.

Deepsix
 

This isn't about right and wrong.
 

I STILL THINK THERE IS SOMETHING FISHY ABOUT THIS WHOLE THING. :icon_scratch:
"pirate treasure"
 

Hi Ossy!
I am just saying that when we become purist, then we cant pick and choose or become hipocrites. If we want to make the issue about the true owners then we cant walk both ways on a one way street. If the treasure isnt abandoned or belongs to a soveign nation then it belongs to Peru.
I personally dont care about odyssey, but if everybody wants to make this a right or wrong issue then PERU is entitled to get their treasure back. All of it including what Spain has hidden away or in a museum. Its either one way or the other. And I believe that it is an issue of right or wrong because that is what we have made out of this issue.
 

Hi 4theMoney, I can't understain your train of thought " If Odyssey doesn't get to keep the loot,
then it should go back to Peru :icon_scratch: How does Odyssey absolve themselves from not returning the loot to Peru? If you feel they are the rightfull owners.
Stolen goods if that's what you feel they are ARE STOLEN GOODS ! Look we found them and we
are not Spanish so we can keep them ??? You can't have it both ways my friend.
You forget the Spanish had been there for over 200 years for good or bad, many never returned
to Spain and had made their home in Peru.
The decision has been made, Flogging this dead horse isn't going to change things.
Ossy
 

You are absolutly right Ossy....If the treasure is considered and deemed to be "STOLEN GOODS" then it should go back to its rightful owner...... PERU
I think all of the treasure Spain looted should be returned.
 

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