Odyssey Marine Article...

[jeff k]

Times Article - Greg Stemm Interview...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/men/article6328172.ece


Another Times Article...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6322407.ece

 

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[mariner]

Jeff,

Thanks for posting those articles.

Gregg Stemm certainly knows how to handle himself in the media, and its good that the idea that wrecks are preserved by leaving them on the ocean bed, which is the basis of the UNESCO convention, needs to be re-examined.

If Stemm continues like this, I will have to resume the good opinion I had of Odyssey prior to the time they looted the Mercedes.

Mariner

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Interesting Jeff. " Stemm said " Evidence suggest that she is probably the Mercedes. he admits !
" but we did not know to whom the coins belonged at the time " he makes you laugh.
The best part. " She could also be lying in Portuguese waters " so they could claim as well !The truth is coming
out ! Claudio was right all this time :
Portugal has made it quite clear, any Spanish ship wreck in it's waters belong to Spain !
I,m sure the judge will be very interested in Greg Stemm's comments.
Ossy

 

[jeff k]

Sorry to disappoint you, but here's what the "Portuguese" archaeologist Alexandre said about the location of the BS site. Read it and weep.

"Hi all, long time no see... I have been secluded away for the past week together with Portuguese and Spanish authorities brainstorming on our commom heritage.... I got one piece of information to share: this Black Swan site is 40 NM south of Cape Santa Maria, at c. 1320 meters deep.

Also, I would like to know any names and places of registration of ships engaged in deep water treasure hunting so that we can blacklist them in our national waters or, to say the very least, to keep a very wary eye on them on our surroundings."

www.treasurelore.com/charts/alexandre.jpg

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Jeff read Solomon comments. Which site ? as we know from reports at the time, the Forecastle floated away!
" Two Sites " very interesting, we are getting closer to the truth.
Cheers, Ossy

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

I finally got to see Treasure quest The Black swan, After reading some of the comments
made by some here, I expected to see guns to head and smashing of camera's,
ships being rammed, I was disappointed ! no such thing, only a very professional control boarding.
I noticed the first time a naval ship approached when they were looting the coins, they all looked
guilty as hell, and made comments off " Lets Get out of here " Hm mm and this filming was all
controlled by Odyssey.
What really sticks out was the comment " we haven't got time to bring up a cannon so we can
Identity the ship " you have a 4 million dollar ROV which can easily lift a small bronze cannon,
12 inch's from the cannon, but theirs no time
Lets hope the Judge isn't fooled by smoke and mirrors.
Ossy

 

[jeff k]

The Times article has been corrected.

"So why did he move the treasure so fast? “It’s complicated, legally,” Stemm says. “One hypothesis so far is that the cargo on the site could be from the Mercedes,” he admits, “but we did not know to whom the coins belonged at the time, and it is still not clear. In fact, a ship believed to be the Mercedes was found lying in Portuguese waters far from our find, so that seems to contradict the theory. Her legal fate is now in the hands of a judge; it’s the only way to safeguard the integrity of the site.”

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/men/article6328172.ece

 

[Philvis]

Come on Ossy, you cannot honestly say that the Spanish conducted a professional controlled boarding! haha!    Regardless of who the ship turns out to be, Spain acted recklessly and unprofessionally when it came to their "boardings" of Odyssey.  They did it on the "assumption" Oddysey was in their territorial waters which they were clearly not.  It didn't have skull bashings, but it easily could have.  I still believe Odyssey should have ignored the boarding attempt and waited for Spain to either ram them or fire upon them (now that would have made for good tv).  I think it is going to be pretty funny when the descendants of the Mercedes get a cut and Peru gets the lion's share of the coins.

 

[mariner]

I don't think that Peru has a real claim anyway. I think that it will end up with Spain and Odyssey sharing the coins, with Odyssey getting at least 80% of them. The Mercedes was not operating as a Sovereign Vessel and it is in international waters.

I didn't like the way Odyssey acted, but they seem to have cleaned up their act since, and the law is the law.

Mariner

 

[Amona]

Jahman

Don't post here a link like that one here in this topic, you're in Odyssey's territory with it's advocate.You can be in trouble

 

[mariner]

Jahman

Don't post here a link like that one here in this topic, you're in Odyssey's territory with it's advocate.You can be in trouble

Amona,

Did I miss something here? I didn't see anything that was out of place, and if you are referring to the link that Jeff K posted, I thought that it explained very well Stemm's supposed remark about Portuguese waters. Not a keen on what Odyssey did, but fair is fair.

Mariner

 

[hmmm]

Does any one know the dates on the coins.

 

[jeff k]

Does any one know the dates on the coins.

www.treasurelore.com/charts/Tedesco_Affidavit.pdf

 

[mariner]

So when did the Mercedes sink? The last date on the coins was 1803.

Mariner

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

So when did the Mercedes sink? The last date on the coins was 1803.

Mariner

1804, theirs no doubt the coins match the time line of the Mercedes, and no doubt that
OMR had planned and researched their target, well before they claimed their find of and unknown
shipwreck, they planned their escape from Gibraltar with military precision and even had their
sacrificial lambs hug out as bait.
Treasure quest gives a lot of insight of their planning, striping of the ships computers and equipment, any thing that would show location and proof of what ship it may be, were wiped
clean! OMR have said it was all legally done, Boy! they went to a massive amount of trouble and
cost to fly out not only the coins but all their sensitive equipment.
They were only feet from a bronze cannon that would identify the shipwreck but clearly chose
to ignore it ! the excuse of " we don't have enough time" how much time did they
take picking up small coins they didn't have a problem with a 42 pounder from the Victory
a small 8 pounder would have been a walk in the park for Zeus.
Cheers, Ossy

 

[Cablava]

Bob

I have been ignoring this board for a quite a while, but have been reading it the last few days. The same stuff still appears every time I read it.

Now the ship which was originally in International waters is possibly in Portuguese waters, and we should leave treasure on the bottom (except for the gold and silver that is, lets get that into a safe place somewhere only we know where it is) nothing has changed.

I would not be to quick to change your opinion. Selling second hand cars is still the same business (sometimes you have to polish out the scratches and fill the dents). And while OMEX are now showing some of the data they are not interested in to the rest of the world, (This is a good thing by the way) the basic facts have not changed. A change of tie does not make it right.

OMEX went about it the wrong way and should not be allowed to proceed with their claim but be made to go back to the site at their own cost and recover the rest of items to create an outstanding exhibition of whatever ship it turns out to be.( not to be owned by OMEX)

Spain should also have a better platform to base their claim from, and also should be told they have no claim either . They should then create a Spanish wreck preservation society which could use the services of companies such as OMEX and many other state of the art companies (there are plenty believe me) to find and excavate other Spanish wrecks.

The recovered treasure should be sold off and a foundation created to use the money for the good of the South American countries in the education and medical areas required there in.

By the way this will leave plenty of room for me to go and find anything I want without anybody bothering me all the time.

Smoke and mirrors work all the time

Not much changes

Mike

 

[mariner]

Hi Mike,

Good to hear from you, again. I hope you are well.

I have said repeatedly that I disapprove of the way Odyssey behaved in removing all of the coins from the so-called Black Swan site, but they have applied for a ruling from the Federal Court, who will decide how to apply the law in this case. The point I have made is that it appears to me that since that event, Odyssey may have seen the error of their ways, and gone back to proceding in a proper manner. They seem to have done that in the case of the Victory, for example, apparently having consulted the UK Government at an early stage, and worked with them in identifying the site and discussing the alternative way forwards.

It might well be that they have decided to do this for the practical reason that it is better for their image and better for their relations with owners of wrecks to do so, but that's OK, and better than the way they behaved with the Mercedes site. If somebody who is behaving in a bad way sees the light, and starts to reform their ways, it seems to me that they should be given credit for doing so, and then encouraged to continue their reform.

I do not know that Odyssey will ever repair their relationship with Spain, and they may have altered the way that Spain behaves towards future finders of Spanish wrecks, but the Federal court can decide how to treat the case of the Mercedes and the cache of coins. My belief is that Odyssey would have been awarded a substantial proportion of the Mercedes cargo, in any case, if they had recovered only a few of the coins and communicated properly with Spain. Without having studied the case in great detail, it appears to me that the Mercedes was not acting as a Sovereign Vessel on that particular voyage, and sank in International waters. If that is the case, then somebody finding her is entitled to an appropriate salvage award. If it turns out that the wreck is in Spanish waters, and the coins were recovered in Spanish waters, then that would be a different matter, as the US Court would not have jurisdiction.

I think that it would be an injustice, and against the interests of legitimate salvors to apply the law in a different and perverse way in this case, though I hope that the court stresses the that potential salvors should recover only sufficient artefacts to identify the wreck in the future, and I hope that that Odyssey learn their lesson. It is in the interests of the whole TR community that they do.

Best wishes,

Bob aka Mariner

 

[hmmm]

i have another question, the cions are from 1803, and came from south america , some where, does that mean they where minted in the americas, using silver mined in the americans, if that is so, what country is stamped on the coins.

 

[piratediver]

I believe most of the coins were minted in Peru. A friend of mine and Diverlynn, also an officer in the Peruvian Navy was sent to Tampa to inspect the coins and he verified this fact. He is considered one of the world's leading experts on their coinage and has written several books on the subject. His name is Francisco Yabar Acuna. Great guy!


Pirate diver

 

[diverlynn]

I have a copy of the interview but it is 14 minutes and I can't figure out how to shorten it so it is only 10 minutes and put it on youtube. It's too long for TN. I still do not know what was said (its in spanish). Maybe I can bring the copy on a disk to the cookout June 6 and someone can translate.

diverlynn