How to find the Lost Dutchman mine...

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

hi loke, that means the Tayopa forums. ya nut. Incidentally I apologize for not stating precisely what I meant, the major problem with most of the data on the LDM.

DJdLM

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Peerless: you certainly will never make a successful career as a cottin pickin hoss thief, that is a burro alias oro. as for Las tigre, she is quite psychic and quickly realized that I was a one of a century catch. I fell into the trap. sniff..

just think, I coulda -->

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

Cactusjumper wrote

The lines between the tribes in the area of the Superstitions became quite blurred in that era. The Tonto and Yavapai did a great deal of intermarrying.

Actually seems more like a well considered reply, than unqualified. I had expected someone might post Pimas or Maricopas etc but no one ventured that as a guess. Can we add Hohokam to the mix, not concurrent with any Yavapai presence of course as they were long gone?

What about an Aztec presence? Opinions anyone? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

 

[Rawhide]

Aztec, did someone say Spanish and Aztec?

The Chaco Meridian comes to mind. Seems there is several cities in a line built to this standard. Its the only math I accept right now for figuring the sites. Also I believe the Jesuits used a different point a reference for their calculations, and why everyone's math is off. Jesuits reported to a different house/church.

I have not had enough time to read, and keep up with what is accepted. I am going off my own findings online, and in the field. A lot of treasure hunters give up clues and dont know it.

If those two items dont at least make you question who was in Northern Mexico and South Western United States, then we will just have to disagree. The proof is in the pudding, and I am finding way too much stuff that cant be explained.

 

[cactusjumper]

Cactusjumper wrote

The lines between the tribes in the area of the Superstitions became quite blurred in that era. The Tonto and Yavapai did a great deal of intermarrying.

Actually seems more like a well considered reply, than unqualified. I had expected someone might post Pimas or Maricopas etc but no one ventured that as a guess. Can we add Hohokam to the mix, not concurrent with any Yavapai presence of course as they were long gone?

What about an Aztec presence? Opinions anyone? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

Roy,

If you are going to add prehistoric peoples to the question, it broadens the field somewhat. As I have mentioned before, John Gregory Bourke mentioned a small Aztec temple that he found very close to the range. There are others who have mentioned finding Aztec artifacts and markings, but I don't believe anything has ever been authenticated.

"Actually seems more like a well considered reply, than unqualified."

It was "well considered" but I am no authority. I read a lot.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

I was not intending to derail the topic by mentioning Indian presence that predates our 'historic' period; but these earlier peoples left behind things which are sometimes mis-identified by modern Dutch-hunters as "Spanish" or "Jesuit". It is not wise to leap to conclusions when you find a strange marker, sometimes they are not even related to what a fellow is looking for - just my opinion though.
Roy

 

[cactusjumper]

Roy,

I don't find it derailing at all. I like the free flow of ideas and following a wide path of research. You can never tell where those paths may converge back on point. Sometimes you end up answering questions that should have been asked but never were. We can't always see where the thread is going, but now and again we find some important nuggets on the path less traveled.

In any case, I see no harm in letting the discussions seek their own rules of the road.......most of the time.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Rawhide]

I was not intending to derail the topic by mentioning Indian presence that predates our 'historic' period; but these earlier peoples left behind things which are sometimes mis-identified by modern Dutch-hunters as "Spanish" or "Jesuit". It is not wise to leap to conclusions when you find a strange marker, sometimes they are not even related to what a fellow is looking for - just my opinion though.
Roy

I agree. Took me a while to realize it. Most trails were formed by many. Finding anything in tact by a ancient civilization is gonna be rare. But make for some neat pictures.

 

[Old Dog]

I was not intending to derail the topic by mentioning Indian presence that predates our 'historic' period; but these earlier peoples left behind things which are sometimes mis-identified by modern Dutch-hunters as "Spanish" or "Jesuit". It is not wise to leap to conclusions when you find a strange marker, sometimes they are not even related to what a fellow is looking for - just my opinion though.
Roy

I agree Roy,
and have been preaching for years there was an ancient race here prior to many tribes.
The activity of this early race was known by the Spanish. Everywhere evidence of this race is found ... there is some trace of the Spanish to be found following it.
Everywhere I seem to look I find more evidence of quite an influx at one time of the Phoenician.
But all that is another thread.

Back to the subject.

 

[cactusjumper]

Hello Thom,

While I believe it's possible that the Phoenicians made it to the East Coast, it seems a bit of a stretch to imagine that they made it to the Superstitions. There have been many modern-day hoaxes carved/scratched into the range. I have been told of such things by eye witnesses, and some people have admitted that they themselves have created such "artifacts".

Take care,

Joe

 

[Nugget Hunter Smith]

The only true thing to come out of Ron Feldman and HEAT's "treasure trove" expedition was they proved that there was mining done within the Superstition Wilderness area prior to the 1850's. They never reached the chamber that supposedly held the cache because of cave-ins and time restrainants (lack of time spent on the project). Other than that they spent thousands of dollars and over 5 years to get the 30 day permits (renewed several times). No wealth was gained from this except Ron's two fact/fiction books. But he still claims he found the LDM but has no proof, no ore, nothing!

 

[Cubfan64]

The only true thing to come out of Ron Feldman and HEAT's "treasure trove" expedition was they proved that there was mining done within the Superstition Wilderness area prior to the 1850's. They never reached the chamber that supposedly held the cache because of cave-ins and time restrainants (lack of time spent on the project). Other than that they spent thousands of dollars and over 5 years to get the 30 day permits (renewed several times). No wealth was gained from this except Ron's two fact/fiction books. But he still claims he found the LDM but has no proof, no ore, nothing!

I'm a little confused NH Smith...

Mr. Feldman's permitted exploration was in search of a cache of bullion which is what you said above, however you also mentioned that he claims he found the LDM - are you saying his claim is that the mine shaft in which he was searching for bullion was ALSO the LDM? I was not under the impression that he had made that claim, however I don't live in the area and may very well be mistaken.

Thanks,

Paul

 

[cactusjumper]

Paul and N.H.,

It could be that Ron's "Dig" was a total success......in his eyes. It seems unlikely that they found any bullion but, IMHO, it's probable that he did find the LDM. The two are not necessarily in the same spot.

Just one man's opinion........Actually it's a number of people's opinion.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Cubfan64]

Paul and N.H.,

It could be that Ron's "Dig" was a total success......in his eyes. It seems unlikely that they found any bullion but, IMHO, it's probable that he did find the LDM. The two are not necessarily in the same spot.

Just one man's opinion........Actually it's a number of people's opinion.

Take care,

Joe

I understand that Joe - I was just curious as to what NH Smith's position was

 

[EE THr]

CJ---

Can you expand on "The two are not necessarily in the same spot"?

And, do you know where the HEAT mine is located?

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike,

I don't know if you followed this topic on the Feldman's LDM Forum, but it has some interesting posts in it:

http://www.thelostdutchmangoldmine....1&t=1122&sid=972734c5074ca709916f9faaecccb9c9

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

CJ---

Can you expand on "The two are not necessarily in the same spot"?

And, do you know where the HEAT mine is located?

EE,

The only Feldman dig of record is the Treasure Trove location that he received a permit for. That location is not the LDM.

Take care,

Joe

 

[EE THr]

CJ---

That's what I was referring to was the HEAT site. I suppose it is public knowledge?

 

[cactusjumper]

EE,

The location of the permit dig is public knowledge. I have the GPS coordinates if you would like them.

A number of years ago, when Ron first started advertising the dig, Thomas Glover asked me what I thought Ron had there. I told him I thought it was an old spring that had once been cleaned out by someone with a local need.

That kind of thing is common throughout the country, and very common in Arizona. Nothing came from that dig that has changed my mind. Ron Feldman is a very smart cookie, and I'm pretty sure that he always knew what was there.

Take care,

Joe

 

[EE THr]

CJ---

Thanks. From what was said, it seems to be a little over ten miles from Weaver's Needle, and a little bit north of east of it?