Where are the new machines????

[b3y0nd3r]

Well here we are with spring right around the corner. So where are the new machines? ML with some gold machine, and Tesoro with another box machine(I guess these can't fail when you build on top of proven platforms) I say BIG DEAL! Where is the real innovation? Where is the machine that makes us go, "WOW"? If they are planning a march release, then I guess they haven't learned from other companies, which released machines in the spring time. I say it time and time again, release in September. And what about the Deus? My father's theory was they were waiting to see what is coming out. Disappointments all around.

 

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[Carl-NC]

Actually it's a bumblebee that shouldn't be able to fly, not a honeybee.

I'm disappointed we haven't reached the climatic "science is soooo stoopid" moral of the story.

 

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[Deft Tones]

If you really want to know why things are they way they are, maybe try an approach where you ask questions and engage in a real conversation instead of jumping to conclusions. I suggest starting a new thread for that. And I'll be more than happy to respond with an insider's view.

Sorry to interrupt.

Do you have a blog or something where you keep your thoughts and musings?

I'd be interested in reading whatever metal detecting technology you want to write about... seeing your thoughts, ideas, suggestions, experience, knowledge all in one place would be something I would read.

I know you're probably busy with other things, but I am sure I would not be alone in this interest. Please consider it if you haven't already.

Thankyou.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

..... Do you have a blog or something where you keep your thoughts and musings?....

Not sure if it's ok to put the link-info here, but .... Carl and several other deep-technology type engineer minded guys are on the Dankowski forum. The conversations there can go way beyond most people's pay-grades. A mix of normal md'ing topics (show & tell , etc...) mixed with technology aspects. Tech talk that goes deeper than most forums, as a few scientist/engineering types tend to chime in there.

 

[Carl-NC]

Sorry to interrupt.

Do you have a blog or something where you keep your thoughts and musings?

I'd be interested in reading whatever metal detecting technology you want to write about... seeing your thoughts, ideas, suggestions, experience, knowledge all in one place would be something I would read.

I know you're probably busy with other things, but I am sure I would not be alone in this interest. Please consider it if you haven't already.

Thankyou.

Better than that, I run the Geotech forums, where technology is pretty much all we talk about. Been running that for 17 years, so there's a lot of stuff piled up there to read. At the risk of inviting the censor's axe, I'll even post a link: http://www.geotech1.com/forums. Geotech allows linking to other forums and I often steer people to TNet for help, and since there is almost zero overlap between the two the link can hopefully stay put.

I also co-wrote a book, Inside the Metal Detector, which details how metal detectors work. Unfortunately, it doesn't cover future technology directions, but the next edition likely will.

 

[Deft Tones]

That is better than I hoped.

I will pick up a book.

OMG....so much reading. Thank you!

 

[jadocs]

Impressive Carl-NC!

 

[b3y0nd3r]

"B, the reason I got annoyed is that you started out the conversation by calling detector companies cheap & lazy, and suppressing new technology. There are real people behind the detector companies, I'm one of them, and your comments are personally insulting."

So the correct thing to do was to insult back? Two wrongs make a right? I don't know what company you work for, so how do you know I was speaking about your company?

"Nevertheless, I put that aside when you previously started this in another forum, and I offered you real feedback and real alternatives. Apparently you weren't interested in that kind of conversation, so you went elsewhere and posted the same insults."

Well, no. Again, I was trying to get as many viewpoints as possible.

"If you really want to know why things are they way they are, maybe try an approach where you ask questions and engage in a real conversation instead of jumping to conclusions. I suggest starting a new thread for that. And I'll be more than happy to respond with an insider's view."

I did ask questions in this thread. I asked you a few and you still haven't answered. But at this point, this thread is done IMO and starting a new one will get the same results. I do apologize to you AND the detector companies for using the terms "cheap and lazy". Have a good day!

 

[Driftwoood]

Tablet/phone integration? Way over my head. I could be wrong, but being a dinosaur as I am, it seems as though a younger generation wants instant results without much effort. Entry level machines, such as a Garrett Ace 150 or 250, are as good as machines costing $600.00 years ago. There are many really good detectors of all brands available, and I don't think there is any "Best" machine out there. Pick something you like and are comfortable with and learn IT. It IS tempting to want a newer bigger better (bad ass) detector, and the brands and models I've never owned? I read about some of the finds other members have found and with what machines they have found them with and wonder---perhaps THAT is a detector I should try. But then I'd most likely end up with 20+ different detectors, knowing alittle of each, and master of none. There will never be a detector that can read the date of a coin before you dig it (I'd like that), most of it depends on the operator and luck. Point is I guess, enjoy the hobby just for the sake of it. I could go on, but I'm beginning to feel all the hot air I may be putting out.

I agree completely. I have said this here in the past, but will say it again... I used an Ace 250 for quite a while when I started out detecting. My first really good site was that of a very early 1800's church... never been detected. Excellent site. I found a crap-load of coins, buttons, relics, etc. I scoured that site for a long time until the signals ran out. It was an area where there were lots of nails and old junk, so I figured when I was able, I'd get a better detector that might help get through the nails, get better depth, etc. So, I got an AT Pro and an additional small coil. I was super excited to go and pull out all kinds of new stuff. Nope. After many more days going over the same ground, I maybe found an additional few buttons, a cuff link and a few other small bits and bobs. It turns out that I had pretty well cleaned it out with the Ace 250. Now, I'm sure that I could work on extracting the nails and find some items that are being masked, but the detector was not the solution I was hoping for. In any case, I do like the AT Pro much better, but that's a different story.

I figure that a detector, capable of all kinds of gee-whiz stuff is a detector that will more likely fail when you need it most... like power windows in my car. Give me a good basic machine that can take a good beating and keep on rocking, then it will jibe with my treasure hunting style and give me good service. Blue tooth can suck it.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... Excellent site. I found a crap-load of coins, buttons, relics, etc. ...

Good post Driftwoood. While I would not recommend the ACE 250 for someone wishing to be hardcore, yet .... you're right that LOCATION is a big part of the recipe of success . When I think back on some of my favorite and best finds (gold coins, reales, busts, etc...) I realize that probably most all of them could've been found with a cheap machine. Ie.: not necessarily deep, etc..... But more a factor of site research, and being in the right place at the right time.

However: Would I trade my expensive bells & whistles machine for a cheap machine ? Absolutely not

 

[Driftwoood]

Good post Driftwoood. While I would not recommend the ACE 250 for someone wishing to be hardcore, yet .... you're right that LOCATION is a big part of the recipe of success . When I think back on some of my favorite and best finds (gold coins, reales, busts, etc...) I realize that probably most all of them could've been found with a cheap machine. Ie.: not necessarily deep, etc..... But more a factor of site research, and being in the right place at the right time.

However: Would I trade my expensive bells & whistles machine for a cheap machine ? Absolutely not

Yeah, I guess it all depends on what you need vs. what is 'fluff'... All I want is something that identifies metal a good 10-12" underground, can discriminate between types of metal, is fairly rugged, waterproof and doesn't weigh a ton. Those things are all 'must-haves'... if I can get a little extra without sacrificing any of the above stuff, then bring it on! Oh, yeah, a good detector can't make really annoying noises (Deus).

 

[☠ Cipher]

My feature wishlist would be:
1. PI/VLF switch
2. Single or multifrequency switch
3. Bluetooth headphone and cell integration
4. GPS with historical marker pop up alerts
5. Backlight and search light
6. Touch screen
7. Waterproof
8. True automatic ground balance
9. Wireless discriminating pinpointer with Bluetooth connectivity to machine and cell.
10. Better predictive algorithms that take into account VDI falloff to depth ratio. For example, we know from experience with our machines that a deep coin sized target reading as a penny is often a quarter. Why doesn't the machine know that. Maybe if we could program in that the find was at 10" and was a quarter it could learn or we could "teach" it.

It would be nice to someday see the cell phone replace or annex the control box and brands and programs would become apps. I don't know how practical this would be, considering cell phones can be disruptive to metal detecting, but I have to imagine that with all the progress we've seen in the cell phone, computer, and tablet sectors of technology and the relatively sluggish pace of metal detector progress that the problem is not that we've reached a plateau of any sort. So many more improvements and novel ideas are possible. It's just not yet a large enough hobby to attract the sort of people who could revolutionize the way we detect. The talent goes where the money is. The big money is not in making metal detectors or designing tech for them. It is in computers, tablets, and cell phones. And I'm sure I'm going to get jumped if I don't qualify my statements here. We do have remarkably talented engineers. In tech as with everything else, a jack of all trades is often master of none. We have masters at what they do and where their focus has been. But we need masters of other sectors to come in and implement the kind of features and improvements we want to see. Personally, I think there has been this kind of forward thinking paradigm shift at First Texas, and many people may scoff at this, but I think their future looks brightest of the major companies here.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

cipher, as to your 1 to 9 on your list: None of these would be new abilities. That is: Everything there is something we can already avail ourselves of now. Combining them would be nice, but it would just amount to whistles and bells. Not a new ability that we don't already have.

As for #10: I'd be skeptical of any machine that would try to correctly call a quarter , and compensate for depth on the TID, etc.... Because the minute we start to allow the machine to make these 'calls', is the minute it's going to start making some assumptions (ie.: "dumbing down"), and start to lump stuff. If all coin-target signals were the same, then perhaps the skews could be "learned". But they're not. The minute you start factoring in close-by targets, tilt of targets, ground minerals, etc.... is the minute all bets are off. So it is better that the user let his ears do the choosing.

As you already say yourself in #10, that we "... know from experience...." (that a target is a probable quarter, not a penny). So ... if you already "know" (given a particular hunt environment), then what are we adding, to ask the machine to do it ? I would continue to rely on what "you already know". Rather than put more things into the decision of the machine. Only because, as you say, we "already know". If it were something we can't deduce, then sure, by all means, a new mousetrap would be interesting.

 

[☠ Cipher]

cipher, as to your 1 to 9 on your list: None of these would be new abilities. That is: Everything there is something we can already avail ourselves of now. Combining them would be nice, but it would just amount to whistles and bells. Not a new ability that we don't already have.

As for #10: I'd be skeptical of any machine that would try to correctly call a quarter , and compensate for depth on the TID, etc.... Because the minute we start to allow the machine to make these 'calls', is the minute it's going to start making some assumptions (ie.: "dumbing down"), and start to lump stuff. If all coin-target signals were the same, then perhaps the skews could be "learned". But they're not. The minute you start factoring in close-by targets, tilt of targets, ground minerals, etc.... is the minute all bets are off. So it is better that the user let his ears do the choosing.

As you already say yourself in #10, that we "... know from experience...." (that a target is a probable quarter, not a penny). So ... if you already "know" (given a particular hunt environment), then what are we adding, to ask the machine to do it ? I would continue to rely on what "you already know". Rather than put more things into the decision of the machine. Only because, as you say, we "already know". If it were something we can't deduce, then sure, by all means, a new mousetrap would be interesting.

You're really splitting hairs here, and If we were to follow your line of logic, or illogic, machines would never advance. I understand there are some things you'd like to discern for yourself. No further information would prohibit you from doing that. Doesn't mean nobody else should want it. If you'd not like a machine like I described, or you think having these abilities on separate machine equals combining them into one, all I can say is well, ok then. Some of those items we have yes. It outlines a machine as far as what I'd like to see one include. You've worked hard to knock this down for no apparent reason and without a lot of reflection it seems. It's kinda silly.

 

[Jason in Enid]

You're really splitting hairs here, and If we were to follow your line of logic, or illogic, machines would never advance. I understand there are some things you'd like to discern for yourself. No further information would prohibit you from doing that. Doesn't mean nobody else should want it. If you'd not like a machine like I described, or you think having these abilities on separate machine equals combining them into one, all I can say is well, ok then. Some of those items we have yes. It outlines a machine as far as what I'd like to see one include. You've worked hard to knock this down for no apparent reason and without a lot of reflection it seems. It's kinda silly.

chill out man, its a forum about detecting, not life and death. someone had a different point of view than you, so what? Why are you getting upset and defensive?

 

[adamBomb]

My ideal machine would be the CTX. I am honesly not sure I want something deeper. Maybe more waterproof though...And if the GPS linked to a phone app that would be super helpful instead of their current software.

 

[SteveOrygun]

I'll buy the beer if you girls bring your purse's and promise to load them with scrap iron for the swing fest!!

Yea, Im the guy changing out your waterheater while you tell how frigging smart you are!!

 

[George (MN)]

Here's a problem: If a new detector comes out that is likely great, it can't be mentioned on a site where they don't pay to advertise.

I'm thinking of a detector that is $779 and can get a full volume, unbroken, 100% repeatable high tone on a freshly buried coin at 13", using a 9" coil. If that isn't deep enough, they offer a 13" coil. Because the USA distributor has no dealers and isn't paying to be on any site, I have no rights to tell anyone what it is.

I'm not really mad at treasurenet or any other site that won't mention it, as they all need to make money or at least recover expenses, But it is a little frustrating that I can't help people this way. I guess I should write the distributor and try to persuade them to pay to advertise. Best wishes, all!

 

[Jason in Enid]

Here's a problem: If a new detector comes out that is likely great, it can't be mentioned on a site where they don't pay to advertise.

I'm thinking of a detector that is $779 and can get a full volume, unbroken, 100% repeatable high tone on a freshly buried coin at 13", using a 9" coil. If that isn't deep enough, they offer a 13" coil. Because the USA distributor has no dealers and isn't paying to be on any site, I have no rights to tell anyone what it is.

I'm not really mad at treasurenet or any other site that won't mention it, as they all need to make money or at least recover expenses, But it is a little frustrating that I can't help people this way. I guess I should write the distributor and try to persuade them to pay to advertise. Best wishes, all!

That make no sense. Who told you that you can't discuss a brand? There are no manufacturers here, only retailers. We could talk about Garrett or Whites, or anything we want. We talked about DEUS a lot before they ever had any US outlets. You just can't say that Jerry-Joe-Bob's detector sales will give excellent deals on a detector is Jerry-Joe-Bob didn't pay for advertising.

 

[bc5391]

I am 65 and I can remember what the world was like before technology. I could hand write the customers receipt, count back the correct change and thank them for shopping with me. I could go on and on with this. I now drive a school bus and my wife is a monitor on this bus. Some of the questions these students ask us are unbelievable. The other morning a student ask my wife why there were two suns. He did not know the difference between the sun and the moon. You can think technology for this.

I can relate to that, I had some real genius's when I was teaching, thank the lord they let me retire without being fired.

 

[George (MN)]

OK Jason, mfr can list a new detector but dealer can't. A distributor is in between a mfr & dealer so I'll try to post here & if it gets deleted, I'll contact the distributor & tell them they must pay to advertise.

The detector is the Detech Chaser, which comes with the 9"Ultimate coil for $779 shipped. It gave a loud high-pitched tone on a freshly buried coin 13" deep, If one wants to go even deeper, they offer the 13" Ultimate coil for $179.95.

This is the 14 kHz model. They have this detector at 20 kHz & a low frequency for Europe. They also get more coil choices.

DetechUSA.com is begging for dealers, will any sponsors here be contacting them? Best wishes, all! George (MN)