The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

[Oroblanco]

Mike,

There is no doubt that the point of the dagger is oriented to the north. On the other hand, It's obvious that the hilt is pointing towards the trail to the heart, which is to the east.

There are many people posting here, who have never been in the Superstitions, or if they have, never left the marked trails.....the one or two times they have taken a hike. Even so, they talk as if they have some kind of expertise or inside knowledge.

Those same people seem unable to read a simple topographic map. For instance, if you can read such a map, you would have no doubts that the Stone Maps are orientated with the start of the trail over the main mountain being at the bottom, which is south, and the point of the dagger is at the top, which is to the north.

You have explained the rule, many times, for the initial approach to reading the Stone Maps. Occam's Razor, or lex parsimoniae. Being a simple man, I slide into that mode rather easily. The answer is just too simple for some of the greater minds here. There just has to be a complicated code that points to ancient civilizations or the patterns of the stars, or a biblical code.....etc.

If my solution is correct, how can they demonstrate their superior intellect? They can't just agree with me, because I am a dumb.......burro, compared to just about anyone. I, of course, have no problem with that assessment, but the Stone Maps are what they are, no matter who tries to twist or turn them into something other than a simple map.

Now if there is some kind of code that pertains to the actual map,
I would like to see that forthcoming. However, that code has to be followed off of the maps, as I have laid them out. Work on that premise and you may just answer the real puzzle.

Just one man's opinion.

Take care,

Joe

A simple solution seems most probable; we are unable to wrap our tiny minds around the concept of the dagger point indicating north or read a topo map in your view, yet some cannot even ponder the idea that the arrow on the hilt may be what truly indicates north, in which case those rivers would be N-S oriented. Then the stone maps just won't fit the Superstitions at all, but does work elsewhere. It might even explain why the stone maps have failed to produce results (as in found treasures, mines) for SO many searchers in the Superstitions. Sometimes things can indeed be just too obvious.

Just one "armchair theorist" opinion,
Roy

 

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[Blindbowman]

what dose it feel like to wonder and not know ...?

 

[cactusjumper]

Mike,

There is no doubt that the point of the dagger is oriented to the north. On the other hand, It's obvious that the hilt is pointing towards the trail to the heart, which is to the east.

There are many people posting here, who have never been in the Superstitions, or if they have, never left the marked trails.....the one or two times they have taken a hike. Even so, they talk as if they have some kind of expertise or inside knowledge.

Those same people seem unable to read a simple topographic map. For instance, if you can read such a map, you would have no doubts that the Stone Maps are orientated with the start of the trail over the main mountain being at the bottom, which is south, and the point of the dagger is at the top, which is to the north.

You have explained the rule, many times, for the initial approach to reading the Stone Maps. Occam's Razor, or lex parsimoniae. Being a simple man, I slide into that mode rather easily. The answer is just too simple for some of the greater minds here. There just has to be a complicated code that points to ancient civilizations or the patterns of the stars, or a biblical code.....etc.

If my solution is correct, how can they demonstrate their superior intellect? They can't just agree with me, because I am a dumb.......burro, compared to just about anyone. I, of course, have no problem with that assessment, but the Stone Maps are what they are, no matter who tries to twist or turn them into something other than a simple map.

Now if there is some kind of code that pertains to the actual map,
I would like to see that forthcoming. However, that code has to be followed off of the maps, as I have laid them out. Work on that premise and you may just answer the real puzzle.

Just one man's opinion.

Take care,

Joe

A simple solution seems most probable; we are unable to wrap our tiny minds around the concept of the dagger point indicating north or read a topo map in your view, yet some cannot even ponder the idea that the arrow on the hilt may be what truly indicates north, in which case those rivers would be N-S oriented. Then the stone maps just won't fit the Superstitions at all, but does work elsewhere. It might even explain why the stone maps have failed to produce results (as in found treasures, mines) for SO many searchers in the Superstitions. Sometimes things can indeed be just too obvious.

Just one "armchair theorist" opinion,
Roy

Roy,

I am truly sorry that you took my post personally. I tried my best not to aim my comments at any particular member.

"It might even explain why the stone maps have failed to produce results (as in found treasures, mines) for SO many searchers in the Superstitions. Sometimes things can indeed be just too obvious."

What you write may very well be true. It might also be that there is no treasure to be found using the maps......other than the search.

Looking forward to meeting you and Beth at the Rendezvous.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Joe - I am not/was not offended, and am at the moment literally an armchair theorist. I have never used the stone maps to search for treasures, and likely never will. Just noticed the irony, that alternative ideas for other areas (eg Sonora, elsewhere in AZ, NM or even Utah) can not be considered by so many of us here - and not referring to YOU specifically when I say that.

Just an observation (from someone who does not use the stone maps to search) but the Sonora idea may warrant further investigation; for one thing, Kollenborn had found some mention of stone maps in a source dating to the late 1800's which seemed to be referring to that area rather than the Superstitions. If the stone maps are the very same stone maps mentioned in his source, then the area they actually apply to would be much closer to what Don Jose proposed.

Ditto, we both are looking forward to meeting you, and hopefully others of our group from here and/or other internet forums. It would be nice to be able to put a face with some of the 'voices' (written) we have been talking with now for years.

Now if I only had an actual armchair, instead of this bench, I could really say I am an armchair theorist 100%! <Thinking of those recliners you have at home Joe! >
Roy

 

[Blindbowman]

hidden in the shadows .. where only the cave eyes see ..you can find the wall of dreams , be sure to look for me
i am the lizard boy as green as green can be .. look apone the wall of dreams for dreams are always free ...

 

[Infosponge]

hidden in the shadows .. where only the cave eyes see ..you can find the wall of dreams , be sure to look for me
i am the lizard boy as green as green can be .. look apone the wall of dreams for dreams are always free ...

Sounds like you're up in smoke!

 

[gollum]

Roy,

For something to mean anything on a map, there has to be an indication on the map somewhere attesting to that fact. Like the letter "R" or the word "RIO" sometimes (not always) mean to look at the map in a mirror. It depends on who made the map, but if ANYTHING on a map is going to have a meaning different than the accepted meaning, there HAS to be something on the map that tells you so.

A dagger or knife TYPICALLY means the tip is pointed to the North. If, on this map, that is not the case, then something on this map will tell you so.

THAT is assuming the dagger/knife is original to the other carvings. Remember, the picture of the trail stones sitting on the bumper? It takes a good eye, Photoshop, and some imagination to see the dagger/knife.

IF (and it is a big if), the dagger/knife is not original to the maps, then ANY direction COULD be North. But for that to be true I would HAVE to see a better picture taken the same time the one we have was taken.

See Roy, for some reason you seem to think that I can't imagine any of yours and Jose's possibilities. You are both mistaken. I can and have many times while looking at the stones and the pictures I have of them. I have just come to the conclusion that the MOST LIKELY meaning is that which I have stated. For me to put any time into a different and more remote possibility, I would need to see something solid to give me an indication that theory may hold some water. Show me SOME kind of evidence that backs up yours and Jose's ideas other than imaginations? If you could tell me that "I believe the arrow on the hilt of the dagger/knife is actually delineates North/South because ...................................................... " Then I would be more inclined to give it some merit.

Best-Mike

 

[cactusjumper]

Gentlemen,

Finding the orientation of the map is fairly simple, if you know the topography of the Superstitions. I was able to draw, from memory, a map of most of the western end of the range as a teenager. If you place the dagger tip on Parker Pass, using a topo, you should be able to draw the rest of the Stone Maps from there. If you can't, see me at the Rendezvous. I am only talking about the trail maps.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Hola Joe, of the Oirish stew pot. One must never be content with what may be the correct interpretation of data, always go over it, and over it.

While I have no doubt that you can fit the stone map to the Superstitions, and quite probably are correct, but, from past experience, it can be made to fit many other locations also. In fact even the cardinal direction hasn't been positively established so far. 'Likely' leaves too broad an opening for mistakes.

I am not particularly picking on you, as much as Gully, and in both cases more in fun than seriousness, but it does remind me of a giant 1000 piece puzzle of a famous picture. Many pieces can fit the spot that you are working on, some almost 100% in the printed section, others the cutout section, but ultimately only one is correct for both. Do you - collectively - have it? Or are you like that little girl that I saw making one fit by pounding on it with her soft drink glass? Honest !

I personally, will never actually look for the LDM, probably will never even be in the area again after that flight over it, except maybe with the help of the Lord to be at the junta. I have too much to handle in my, or my associates lifetimes now. But it keeps me on my toes working with you - collectively - on the puzzle, yes, with you , not against .. This requires not blindly accepting what you may have presented and believe because of deductions, or points that you may, or cannot show in a public media. I personally am in that situation also, so I do understand it.

I will now proceed to see if I can use my coffee cup to fit it into the Ocampo or Tayopa area

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Cubfan64]

Joe, do you have any photographs (panorama or otherwise) taken from the exact spot you believe the stone map (trail maps) were "drawn" from?

I just have too much trouble from a topo map trying to "connect the dots" on the trail maps. There's just too many features that could fit the lines on the map - canyons? trails? mountain ridges or passes? washes? etc...

If I could see a number of photographs and put myself in the "artists shoes" so to speak as I sit and hand draw what's in front of me and it ends up looking exactly like the trail maps, I could be convinced.

By the way - have you ever spoken to Tom about your theory and compared it with where he places the stone map artist?

 

[cactusjumper]

Don Jose,

I have no problem with you or anyone else questioning my conclusions. It's a habit that I myself excercise on a regular basis.....always have.

Before anyone can offer up another location that fits the Stone Maps better than mine, they should at least take a good look at my maps, with the Stone Maps right beside them, first.

I have looked at many, many theories of where the Stone Maps will lead, over the years. Each year, at least one or two people run those conclusions by me.
Some are by people I consider friends, others are by complete strangers who have been reading my posts for awhile.

It's true that I no longer question my own maps. After this many years of walking the terrain, examining the evidence and listening to hundreds of people explain why I was all wrong, I am confident in my conclusions.

So you see I have both sides of the argument. That's why I'm still unchanged after forty or so years.

Even though you still want to hear what the doubters have to say about your Tayopa location, you won't be moved easily. Same story for me.

I have always maintained that the Stone Maps could be modern-day creations. Over time, I have seen enough to convince me that is probably the case.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Blindbowman]

Don Jose,

I have no problem with you or anyone else questioning my conclusions. It's a habit that I myself excercise on a regular basis.....always have.

Before anyone can offer up another location that fits the Stone Maps better than mine, they should at least take a good look at my maps, with the Stone Maps right beside them, first.

I have looked at many, many theories of where the Stone Maps will lead, over the years. Each year, at least one or two people run those conclusions by me.
Some are by people I consider friends, others are by complete strangers who have been reading my posts for awhile.

It's true that I no longer question my own maps. After this many years of walking the terrain, examining the evidence and listening to hundreds of people explain why I was all wrong, I am confident in my conclusions.

So you see I have both sides of the argument. That's why I'm still unchanged after forty or so years.

Even though you still want to hear what the doubters have to say about your Tayopa location, you won't be moved easily. Same story for me.

I have always maintained that the Stone Maps could be modern-day creations. Over time, I have seen enough to convince me that is probably the case.

Take care,

Joe

i would rather just set back and watch you make a fool of your self ...lol

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

BB: yer a CHEEKIN, just like Joe's avatar.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

BB, as a matter of fact, I kinda prefer goils also.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Blindbowman]

BB, as a matter of fact, I kinda prefer goils also.

Don Jose de La Mancha

i like my own girl friend ,i have known her from the age of 9 and as she puts it ,we tolerate each other ...lol

you guys dont know what disgree means ...lol trying to tell her she is wrong about something is like having a dagger fight...

 

[Ellie Baba]

Hi All,

Attached are a couple of pics related to proving that the Stone Maps (the Trail Map) are in fact genuine. The placement of the symbol depicted in the IR evaluation is located within the defined depository area as indicated by following the instructions found on the Horse Tablet. There are other stone map symbols that match up to other symbols found in the IR Interpretation. I will share them with the group when I can find the time. These symbols should help to convince the skeptics to rethink the validity of the Stone Maps.

Later,

Ellie B

 

[Loke]

I'm sorry for pouring cold water on your enthusiasm, bu all _I_ can see is 1) picture of part of one of the stones and 2) some similar 'wiggles' on another background.
Maybe I'm a bit dense - but how the heck does this prove anything at all?

 

[Cubfan64]

I'm sorry for pouring cold water on your enthusiasm, bu all _I_ can see is 1) picture of part of one of the stones and 2) some similar 'wiggles' on another background.
Maybe I'm a bit dense - but how the heck does this prove anything at all?

If you're dense Loke, put me in the same category cause I didn't understand the connection either.

 

[Springfield]

I'm sorry for pouring cold water on your enthusiasm, bu all _I_ can see is 1) picture of part of one of the stones and 2) some similar 'wiggles' on another background.
Maybe I'm a bit dense - but how the heck does this prove anything at all?

If you're dense Loke, put me in the same category cause I didn't understand the connection either.

Interesting concept, yes. However, despite the similar pattern, it's frankly not the same. Seems like confirmation of additional patterns would be needed to further evaluate the phenomenum.

 

[Ellie Baba]

Hi All,

Well... I suppose that I should have included the complete Infrared Sat. page; sorry about that. Symbol can be located near bottom of page left of center.

Ellie B