The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

[the blindbowman]

i got to say i have never seen a 1 yard by 1 yard stone block over the doorway in any building that i know of ....

to me it dose not make sense , why build this building in that spot ,it would not be a logical place to build anything ...the other rock house is solid stone slap they look hand cut ,much like inca stone work .. but one slap is 15ft by 15ft and solid stone, i didnt look to see how thick the stone was . i was in shock thinking how much it must weigh and how did they stand it up right ...no who ever build that rock house knew stone work ..the triangal was 10ft high by a base of 15 wide how could they pick that up and put it on top of the wall after the wall was standing . this took a lot of man power and know how ...the shocking part is the slaps fit so tight you could not slid a tooth pic between them ..

in the rock houses case where it is i would have to say is near unbeleaveable . i dont know how they build it there ...no way to left the heavy stones and no way to move them to that site ,, unless they cut them from the mt it self ...on location ...

its the locations that looks out of place . why build them there . there is no clear path to them and little way to get to them directly .. there must have been a logical reason to select those sites ...no one well evey find the rock house its to hiden ...it can only be seen from a 2-3 degree angle, that means from the other 357 degree you can not see it ....
i used the peralta stones and ruths map or i would never have found it in the frist place ...other than knowing the right location from my sighting you would not beleave anything could be build in this area ..

i well add that the rock house is dirrectly across from the tunnle area and all 3 the pit the tunnle and the trock house are in line like the ruth map shows they are ,, so dose the the witch stone if you under stand its translation ...
i am 100 % sure i am at the right location ..

i beleave i can go to the rock house and cover the area and find the hiden camp and than the 3 graves somewhere around it ...i wish you could all be with me when i look for the large cache at the hiden camp ...

i know why he put it there ,i can see a path of logic and he had some reasons to put the large cache at that site ...think back before the parking lot was there in the latter 1880's he was getting old and could not cover the distance he could when he was younger ...how far could he go with a mule in one day ..even if he knew where he was going ...?

i beleave he went to the hiden camp stayed over night and than climbed the next morning to the pit and stayed the night there and than back down the next day ..and than stayed the night at the hiden camp again . thats 5 day each trip ...7 -8 days for a full trip in and out of the mt range i beleave this is a logical reason he could never carrie more than about 50 bls of ore at any one time ...it may also be a reason the ore was high graded . because he knew he could only take so much with him ..

now add the weight of the pack mules load and you got your hands full ...

if he left his supplies at the hiden camp than he could take the mule up with out a pack load .. letting him take more water and food , stay as long as the water and food last and than head down to the hiden camp again with the pack of ore ..the hiden camp has water near by year round ...giveing him and the mule a place to rest each time they camped there ...

i can not say that about the pit area it is out in the open and other than being in the pit there is not place to get out of the weather or hide a mule .. he could not have been there for any long trem stay ...


ya what others thaught didnt mean anything in fact have a logical reasoning behind them .



thats one of the reasons i made the statement about the nephew site .if they could not stay at the pit over night than they would have been near the hiden camp in the morning thus the nephew site was within 100 yards of the hiden camp ...its all logic .we just dont see how the fact fit togather unless we are in the path of logic it self ... wake up and get started to the pit talking and the nephew tells the dutchman off and the dutchman shots him in the morning , cant take the body up the mt .so he dose not want it to close to the hiden camp and places it near by so he can pack him out the next day . than desides someone may come by and find the body so he desides to barrie him in that area . thats where i found the nephew site ... cause and effect .. all bassed on logic ..if they were working the mine togather , thats how the large cache was collected at the camp ..four hands are better than two ..i can beleave he made the boy carrie the water and save the mule from a heavy laod ,if it was me i would have done the same thing . yet the boy would not under stand that . and would get weaker and weaker over a few days ...i can guess this added to the boys reply to the dutchman ...lol
remember what the dutchman said was just as importain as what he dose'nt say . " dragged him under a shelving rock " he dragged him . not very far . and on mostly flat ground , as soon as he came to a rough area he could not drag him threw he looked for a place to barrie him .. thats how i found the site ...have you ever tryed to pick up a dead body and put it on a mule .? think about what he said , i put a chain around his neck , i dont think he dragged the body anywhere him self , the mule did ....? if it was just the dutchman why put the chain around the neck ...and why would you take a chain out into the desert ... what would you use it for ?

i can tell you a possable logical reason where and how he got the chain .. it came from the iron doors in the tunnle , i can logical beleave the dutchman never told the nephew about the tunnle . the boy would not have wanted to work the pit if he knew the tunnle was so close by ...and had treasure and ;lots of it ! . if the chain was on the doors it would most likely only be a few ft long say 3 or 4ft long to smal to use as a deer drag would be , but not to small if you were going to tie the mules tail to it .. like the old wagon trains did.. to guide the mules , thus a peice of chain to rap around the next yet still able to be used to drag the body ..i beleave the old man could left the dead weight ....i guess i could prove these theroies by finding the chain around the neck of the nephew or the dutchman could have put it back from where it had came from ..why not just use a rope you ask because he didnt have one at the time this took place and he knew about the chain ...and it was close by ..thats why i said i beleave the walking stick i found was from the man in 1959, why because the dutchman could have shot the boy there yet he could not have move the body from there to where the nephew site is now ...fact ...but this dose tell me the area the shot took place in , with in reason the guide lines of the logical path that is takeing place at the time this event happens ...i can see the dutchman reacting to shoting the boy and needing to hide the body fast ... he could have taken the boys body to the hiden camp but it was to far and to rough to get to from where the boy was shot ...make it logical to barrie the body in that area ..if he returned with the heavy ore laod maybe someone would note the boy being missing ...no i think i would have left the large cache there and head back to phoenix ...that way if anyone had seen him moveing the body or herd the shot he would find out about it in town...

its funny what a man sees as faith , the dutchman could not bring him self to steal from the chruch treasure trove in the tunnle , yet i beleave he did know it was there ...what would the indains think of him if they saw him stealing from his own faith ? know if this logical path is true than the dutchman did find and open the iron doors ...the ore was more than he needed and was easy to sell and few would ask questions ...

think about it . if he shot him in the morning say a half hour after leaveing camp . it would be say 10 clock and soon the desert would be to hot for a mule and a old man and a dead body , no he barried him as fast as he could and got the hell out of there headed back to phoenix , thats funny thats what he said he did.... to explan a change of direction & events that took place for only a logic the dutchman knew of .....

yes, i foundd these sites ...no one well ever find these sites with out me ...i know that for a fact ...i made sure of it !

 

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[cactusjumper]

Bowman,

Very nice post. Don't know why you felt the need to edit it.

"have you ever tryed to pick up a dead body and put it on a mule .?"

Are you kidding? We are all outdoorsman here......with a smattering of outdoorswomen.
I have no doubt that everyone on this forum has done that dozens of times......well, except for the women, as that's man's work.

Hard to get the mule to stand still for that kind of load, especially if the body hasn't had a bath for a few months. Mules got delicate noses you know.

Anyway, you have set the hook in a lot of folks now. I imagine you will have a mob beating down your door and begging to go along.

Good luck and good hunting,

Joe

 

[the blindbowman]

i am a reclusive creative artistic savant what do i need wealth for? i dont care about the value of the wealth of these finds . i care about the history and the spirits of those lost ...

the witch of lost arrows /Lost sorrows ,some may have herd of this witch called the witch of lost souls ! a place of death a holly place , where the sorrow of those lost has yet to be faced ...

how many would really want to go on expedition 3 ?

 

[cactusjumper]

Bowman,

"how many would really want to go on expedition 3 ?"

That's really a pretty good question. I would suggest you not consider placing a sign-up sheet at the local Walmart, as the numbers might become a little unwieldy. Best to keep it, like a small wedding, just friends and family.

Have you considered a caterer? I have long been available for weddings, barmitzvahs and other small social functions. That also saves me from having to carry the larger magnums, as a .38 Special will suffice for most of those functions......assuming they are not Italian.

Looking forward to pictures or "film at 11:00.

Joe

 

[the blindbowman]

a 32 ss with a 4 5/8, fast ,yet sweet .... less chance of a recasha and shoting your self like ruth lol ...


one day with 4 or 5 people would do it ..

i think its dum to go way out in the mts and say thats a cave and not check it out !

its not what i am telling you, its what you dont know !

 

[cactusjumper]

Bowman,

"its not what i am telling you, its what you dont know !"

Wow!!! Is that the understatement of the year, or what?

"less chance of a recasha and shoting your self like ruth"

Ruth's gun was unfired. Does that fact make any difference in your theory, or are you just winging it?

"a 32 ss with a 4 5/8, fast ,yet sweet..."

Bit of a mouse-gun, but to each his own. No reason for that long of a barrel on a peashooter, just gets in the way of....."fast". A 2" barrel and DAO in a .38 Special is much better for close encounters, which is the only thing a mouse-gun is good for, thus the favorite caliber for assassins is a .22 Up close and personal.

Joe

 

[the blindbowman]

no i knew ruth's gun had not been fired but if they can tell us it was natral causes, i can say he can fire the gun with out useing a shell ... lol ...


its not alot of knock down power but it makes a nice clear whole right where i want it everytime .....no shake or flinch. just dead .and the tec 9 ....helps

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

a 4" barrel is a nice compromise between speed and accuracy. A longer barrel tends to allow one to maintain the sight picture better which is why most Oylimpic models are around 4 ".

A large calibre is best for close in work, but for the Superstitions where the range may run to 5 -6oo meters, a well adjusted hi-vel load of at least 156 grains in a .357at 1450 fps is quite adequate.

For the same weight in a larger cal. , you can carry a few more rounds of the .357..

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[the blindbowman]

high grain in a cave , not me and the biger the bore the loader the shot a cave can echo and and the loader sound could start a land slid ... no i like the 32 , but a 44 ,45 or 357 has the knock down power and range ,..300 winmag is nice when you need the range...

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

=the blindbowman
but a 44 ,45 or 357 has the knock down power and range ,..300 winmag is nice when you need the range...
***********
A .375 H&H is even better, but carying it and a ammo?

Don Jose de La Mancha alias Till Eulenspeigle alias Tropical Tramp

 

[the blindbowman]

the 45 cal. is good but heavy . after 75ft it drops like a rock ...i know a guy that has a nice 45 nic in 4 inch and he says its a great size alround i was thinking it was a little heavy but he says you get use to it ...i like the 14 shot berreta too

 

[cactusjumper]

T.T.,

"A .375 H&H is even better, but carying it and a ammo?"

I just traded in my scoped .454 Cassul, which I had carried into the Supes a number of times, because of the weight and torture of practicing with it. I could hit a pie plate at 300 yards with it, so it was a plus over toting a rifle.

Traded it for the commemorative Iwo Jima M-1 Garand. Good trade.....

Joe

 

[Zephyr]

BB wrote: "to me it dose not make sense , why build this building in that spot ,it would not be a logical place to build anything ...the other rock house is solid stone slap they look hand cut ,much like inca stone work .. but one slap is 15ft by 15ft and solid stone, i didnt look to see how thick the stone was . i was in shock thinking how much it must weigh and how did they stand it up right ...no who ever build that rock house knew stone work ..the triangal was 10ft high by a base of 15 wide how could they pick that up and put it on top of the wall after the wall was standing . this took a lot of man power and know how ...the shocking part is the slaps fit so tight you could not slid a tooth pic between them ..

in the rock houses case where it is i would have to say is near unbeleaveable . i dont know how they build it there ...no way to left the heavy stones and no way to move them to that site ,, unless they cut them from the mt it self ...on location ...

its the locations that looks out of place . why build them there . there is no clear path to them and little way to get to them directly .. there must have been a logical reason to select those sites ..."

The entrance to the lost Aztec treasure tunnel is hidden behind the massive rock slab... <tease tease>

(Is it April 1st yet...?

 

[cactusjumper]

There are a few questions that it would interesting to see answered: Is there a rock wall around the building? What is the shape of the doorway? Is there a teocalli in the center of the building? What direction does the entrance of the building face?

Joe

 

[the blindbowman]

i got a rock hammer ..lol


no in fact i have been doing prove reading and corrective writeing ....some ploting and dirrectional formatting ...i just corrected the Dick holmes acount to the way it should have read ...unbeleaveable word for word walks you right to the mine it self ...the dutchman was very smart for a old desert rat ...lol

one word out of place and you could end up miles away ...traslate it just right and find me working the mine lol ....or playing in the treasure trove with a bottle of 151 ...if this gets any better i'll by my book ! lol

did you know that some of the trails were not there in 1910 ...


figer that one out !

 

[the blindbowman]

There are a few questions that it would interesting to see answered: Is there a rock wall around the building? What is the shape of the doorway? Is there a teocalli in the center of the building? What direction does the entrance of the building face?

Joe

No, i could not tell ether way ,part of the door way is gone . no there is not a teocalli but the site is already on a mond ....about 285 degrees north west

 

[Oroblanco]

Cactusjumper, thanks for the tip. I find it hard to believe that Aztecs were doing anything in the Superstitions, or if they were there, they were passing through while on trading missions, but will leave the door open a crack to new evidence. LOVE your Garand! 8) I sold the only one I ever owned, and now regret it, as they have not exactly gone down in price - replacing it is going to cost me plenty.

Blindbowman, I can't say that I ever loaded a dead man onto a mule, but have loaded dead large animals onto horses (cover the horses' eyes in some cases as the blood does upset some) so it can be done. I don't think that you can find the chain that is alleged to have been wrapped around the neck of the un-named "nephew" of Waltz, since Holmes brought in the head and chain after Waltz's death. I don't see a good reason to believe this set of human remains (which today would be headless) must therefore be a nephew of Jacob Waltz, it is just as likely to be any of a number of possibilities - so what you should find is a set of human remains with no head, and probably no chain. A chain is highly suggestive of a captive or slave, and we know that Apaches did take captives and have slaves, so if I were to find such a set of human remains I would sooner conclude that this was an unfortunate slave or captive of the Apaches, having been captured or bought from many possible origins including Mexico, the southwest USA, and numerous other Amerindian tribes with whom the Apaches were perennially at war. Ask yourself this question...why would Jacob Waltz put a chain around the neck of his nephew, dead or alive? Chains were a relatively expensive and highly useful item to simply bury it, and if he felt any kind of regret over killing his own nephew, it seems unlikely he would have left the body there with a chain wrapped around the neck.

I hope you will return and tell us what you find in expedition 3, good luck and good hunting to you, hope you find the treasure that you seek.

Oroblanco

 

[the blindbowman]

i agree ore ,

expediton 3 will be researching 4 .....50 by 50 yard sites . the rest of the supersitition have vanished as far as i am concerned ...

 

[cactusjumper]

Bowman,

"i got to say i have never seen a 1 yard by 1 yard stone block over the doorway in any building that i know of ...."

That's a pretty big rock alright. Must be a pretty big house.

Four separate 150' X 150' Aztec sites, that have never been recorded in the Superstitions is quite a find.

The size of the stone would not be a problem, if it were quarried on site. For most locations in the Superstitions, including one that would stay hidden for so many years, it would not be of a size that would need to be moved any distance.

Most "doorways" constructed in the prehistory Southwest were distinctive in size and design. It would be interesting to see, perhaps I missed it, a complete description or even have you post pictures of the building(s).

The problematic part of your "stone", is that it is completely unnecessary (size wise) for it's location. The more likely design of such a doorway in the Superstitions would be something like the Pueblo Bonito doorway, pictured below. A large stonework, like the "Gateway to the Sun" (A single piece of andesite), has another purpose altogether, which required monumental size.

Population at the site would be another factor in what is being built, and the type of architecture used.

Your "discovery" could, of course, change all of that. That's the reason you can seldom get a definitive answer from an archaeologist. The next turn of a spade could change history as we accept it today, and no one wants to look like a fool.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

While the Aztec presence in Arizona may seem telling for Bowman's story, it is not likely that the Aztec's came out of Mexico in any great numbers, rather that a few traders made the trip......Kokopelli, for instance.

There is other evidence that points to why there may be "Aztec" type structures and indications of a presence in Arizona. It would take you back much farther than the era Bowman suggests. It is unlikely Aztec pictographs would exist in such a time. If they did exist, I can assure you that John Gregory Bourke would have reported such things in his diaries. He missed very little.

Joe