The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

[gollum]

Hey Zephyr,

What are you talking about? The heart stone WAS found at the same time as the rest of the stones.

Here it is (front):

And Back:

Best,

Mike

 

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[gollum]

I also need to add something here:

There is an aspect of the stone maps story that I had never heard of until recently. More information to completely confuse the matter! You're welcome!

Travis Tumlinson had told a few people in Apache Junction where he had found the stones (Charlie Miller was the first). Sometime after the stone maps were found, a few people had gone to the spot to see if anything else could be found. One of them searched a little wider area than Tumlinson had, and found something laying on top of the ground. It was a heart of the same size as the one Travis Tumlinson found. This one, however, had different markings on it. It is called the "Latin Heart". I willl go into more detail on it later.

Years after that, a man named Michael Bilbrey found two stone crosses in the area where he thought the stone maps ended. They had carvings very similar to the carvings on the stone maps. He could never completely decypher their meaning, but moved from San Diego to Apache Junction so he could spend more time hunting. Many people think they are fake, but he didn't think so. More info later.

Oh, and this part applies to the assertion that there is no gold in the Superstitions: "On March 10, 1983, Michael Bilbrey, then 32 years old and already a thirteen-year veteran in the search for the Lost Dutchman Mine, filed a mining claim, LD8, in an area where he believed that the Peralta Stone Maps led to. In an article in The Arizona Republic on Tuesday, February 1, 1983, Charles Kelly reported that Bilbrey stated he had assay reports on samples taken from his claim that showed a gold content in sufficient quantity to validate the filing of a mining claim. In the same article, Larry Soehlig, a Lands and Mineral Officer for the Tonto National Forest, is quoted as saying, “Based on what Mr. Bilbrey’s proposed he’d like to do, there’s probably enough (gold) there to let him continue with that little (mining) process. Michael Bilbrey did find gold there."

This information comes from a friend and LONG-TIME Dutch Hunter named Jim Hatt.

Best,

Mike

 

[Springfield]

I'm surprised none of you Dutch Hunters haven't discussed the large intaglios (covering hillsides) that are located in the Superstitions (south end, as I recall)? An aquaintance sent me photos of them about 10 years ago. There's a horse, a heart and an arrow - all large and formed by distubing the ground, placing rocks, etc. so that they could be seen from a distance. I remember I was pretty impressed when I saw them. If any of you have digital photos of them, it might be interesting to post them here. Otherwise, I'll try to find the pictures (daunting task) and scan them whenever I can get to it.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Gentlemen: In regards to huge marks/signs, this is up at Tayopa, it is the locating clue for a treasure site. I must have looked for almost 2 yeas. I asked everyone that I met up there if they had seen a sun sign in the area, no one had.

One day while I was separating the colors, it just popped out. It was soo big and soo obvious that one could be standing upon it would not even notice it.

They had merely scraped down to bed rock at the "base" of the cliff, not on the cliff where I had expected to find the carving.

They had formed a circle of approx, 200 ft in diameter with a scraped path of 25 ft. Once one knew what to look for, it was embarrassingly obvious.

I see no reason why it couldn't have been applied in the Superstitions.

Tropical Tramp

P.S. On the example that I posted, there is a spot where the skyline conforms exactly, I did not post that picture heehe. Actually it is visible and aligned when you first see the skyline when approacing from the East.

For an example of an upside down mirror image, see the small box of letters in the center of the drawn picture.

 

[the blindbowman]

i found the heart of the mt's some time ago yet , all these clues are evidence in their own right ... if you look at the horse stone it dose in fact show a mt range south of the rio ...and not the superstitions them selfs ... the heart of the mt's that i found was in the superstitions .....

in my translation of the stones there is 18 locations .... i am not sure as of yet if the dutchman mine was real or not and if it was only to set a number of clues . do i beleave the dutchman had a mine yes i do but it could in fact be the tunnle . and as i stated the tunnle could be the tayopa mine it self ....or a nother mine yet unknown ,... the only real way to know is to locate it and look for the bells in the tunnle . as i stated i have found what i beleave is in fact the real stone house in the cave , so the next step is looking across the way for the tunnle it self ...the dutchman stated you must find the stone house and i agree with his statement .. you could not find the tunnle with out finding the house frist ...

i beleave there is a mine .. is some of the clues there only to missleed people i beleave so ! ... if i am on the right track ,i will know one way or the other soon ....my other idea of these clues is that unless you are right at the location you fail to under stand the clues or there translation or relationship to the area it self . . so in fact almost all the clues would be true . just some what in abstact to us.......

i could tell you something i found in my research but i dont want anyone to freak out ...lol ...

ok who stated the house was in the cave , and what dose he stated to dick holmes ...twice he says ...."rock House" he never says anything about a house in a cave dose he ?

no he dose not .....because in fact at this point he knows he is dieing and he in fact tells the truth knowing that dick holmes well never find the mine and he in fact will have the last LOL ......

i found this rock huuse and soon we will see if i am right ...
© the blindbowman ,2006

 

[the blindbowman]

if i am right and the dutchman gave parts of the legend or dirrections to 3 diffrent people than i know why he stated two room ...vs rock or stone house in a cave ,, each time he told some one else the story changed . that means one set of dirrections in one out of 3 paths .. 3 card montey ....© the blindbowman ,2006

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

K bowman go for the common thread in the stories first, then go for the Gold.


also © © © ©


Topical Tramp©

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

R E M A T U R E djui, but there.

Tropical Tramp

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Bowman: go to goople. typ in ----- Character Map----- Use the first one, it's from the UK, it is just as simple as the original in Windows. Put it in your favorites for quick recall.

© © © © ©

Tropical Tramp

 

[the blindbowman]

i just figerd out where the mine is and how to find it !
© the blindbowman ,2006

 

[the blindbowman]

Bowman: go to goople. typ in ----- Character Map----- Use the first one, it's from the UK, it is just as simple as the original in Windows.

Tropical Tramp

thanks realdetayopa .. i think its time to find out if i have wasted 17 years of my life .....i know where its at ! © the blindbowman ,2006

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Tally ho bowman

And whether you actually find it or not is of no matter in that you have not wasted any time. It is all part of real living. If you hadn't tried then I would say yes. It is always better to have tried and lost, than not to have tried at all. However think positively.

Tropical Tramp

 

[the blindbowman]

decoys ..i was read something tonight and i got thinking about who he told and why and what he told them vs what i know is fact and one thing stands out ....something i told all of you here .but i did not realize it could have more than one meaning ...........when i re-checked it , and i was right

.© the blindbowman ,2006

 

[Oroblanco]

Blindbowman wrote:
i just figerd out where the mine is and how to find it !

Yes - the mine is in Arizona, and to find it one must search! ( ) Just kidding!

decoys

You have found the correct term for these Peralta stones! DECOYS. Now who/whom would have motive for creating such a thing as a set of false stone maps? Someone who was a promoter of the Superstition mountains, of the legends and lore associated with them, someone trying to sell more books, someone trying to attract more and more tourism, maybe even make movies.....hmmm? Who would fit that bill? No, not Tumlinson, he was the first victim to be duped. Think of someone who is KNOWN to have created FALSE stone carvings in the Superstitions, someone who had the financial backing of a rather famous senator and former presidential candidate, and a member of a prestigious club whose stated goals include, quote

"the study, preservation and public presentation of the history, legends and lore -- plus the cultures and grandiose scenery -- of Arizona and the Southwest." end quote. This would also be someone who did not think to create the carved writing in the correct style too. It would have to be someone with no qualms about making up false artifacts or altering petroglyphs, someone who had spent time in the Superstitions, enough to be able to make up such false maps, someone with no qualms about mixing fact and fiction or embellishing the truth. Anyone come to mind, hmm....?

Has it worked? Absolutely, and continues to do so - just look at how many hits this thread has gotten, and I know for a fact that it wasn't just me hitting the 'reload' button! People even pay to look at them and take photographs of them. Decoys is an excellent term to describe the Peralta stones.

Mike your photo post above shows two shots of the obverse of the Heart stone (a minor slip - you weren't laughing too hard were you?) - I think you had posted more in another thread though. Of these stones, I suspect that the Heart stone (not the so-called Latin heart) might well be a genuine artifact, but if so, I doubt that it has anything to do with the Superstitions - look farther south into another area with known Spanish mining activity.

Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

Reavis was a great perpetrator of fraud - he DID make up fake stone inscriptions to bolster his claim to half of Arizona, but there are problems with him as the creator of these stone maps. For one, how would these stone maps bolster his case, when they do not have the name Peralta anywhere on them? For another, Reavis proudly showed his fake inscriptions to help his "claim"; and yet another problem - there is no record of Reavis going into the Superstitions, or of his having any knowledge of any gold mines or treasure there.

I think we can find a better culprit behind these stone decoys.....hmm?
Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

YOU??


Tropical Tramp

 

[the blindbowman]

i will say this once and only once the stones are real they are not fakes . it is a matter of who made them and why . and how they got to where they were found .. me and Jim Hatt agree on this .....i beleave they were made by Kino . for you that do not know of kino . he was the leader of the jusuits for a great number of years a, a map maker and teacher and ...

to prove my point by logic . lets look at both sides .

frist if they are fake . why and who was to say they would be found out there at all . that is out right rough country and they could have layed around for 40 - 60 years before being found ... secound why go to so much detail and hard work when it could have been done far easyer ...

and why have a good wisdom of the mt range and than waste it in this manner ... that is unlogicial in in self ...

and anyone wise man can tell you that only fools waste their time and do things that are governed by unlogicial acts ...

, that said lets look at why i beleave they are real ..


frist off i beleave kino did in fact make them and if you check kino's 1701 map the hand write are very close to each other . and i beleave he copied some of the work from Marcos de Niza's 1539 map ...

if you beleave the stones are real than you start to try to translate them and find the stones center around the witch stone ... and the heart stone secound . the inserts point out two diffrent locations in the same area . thus two inserts, one is a locater for the pit or LDM and the other is the locater for the tayopa tunnle under the mine . at this point i could be wrong but i do beleave the tunnle is the real tayopa so i will keep calling that and will correct my self if proven wrong in time . but i do beleave that i well find the bells with the tayopa name on them in the tunnle . .the man in 1959 fell in a hole and found the golden statue custoy guarding the enterence of the tunnle .... we know no one has found that site again and it is in the superstitions , if my eye sighting was the LDM that the peralta -ruth map is real and if that is fact the stones are reaaal as will ...

i beleave the stones fell out of the mule train of 240 pack mules of jesuit treasure being taken to the tunnle at the time they werew lost , this would explan why the stones are at random and not in order .. only a few fell out and some go to the superstition and some do not .. i beleave there was 18 locations of the jesuits . yet how many stones is anyone guess ... if the mule train had been crossing flat land and than started going into the superstitions they would have fallen out near the outer area of the mts . and thats where they were found ...and the trail area was the southern to northern trail threw the mt's ...


if the 240 pack mules was in fact the same list we see that was the jesuit chruch list of the tayopa . they stated the treasure trove was returned for safe keeping . thus we see a link between the tunnle at the my site 4 vs the tayopa it self ....

rememmering that both the tayopa list and the 1959 sighting relate to each other ...

if fact than we can judge the weight and pack mule train size of the tayopa to be very close to that of the 240 pack mule train seen in the superstitions ...

so it is not unlogicial that the stones did in fact get where they were found by falling out of the pack trains treasure trove ... we note at this time . there are crosses in the stones and latin writeing as well .. thus the jesuit are in the area at one point in time .. i do in fact think they had a chruch hiden within the mt's yet to be found or may never be found ...


but lets get back to the over insight of the stones the people that made them had a vast wisdom of the mt range and beleaved in the cross and spoke latin as will as wrote it ,,,,

what we know vs what we think we know ... could the jesuits have made the stones .....yes

could they have lost them out of the mule train ...yes

could that mule train be the same one that hide the tayopa treasure trove ..... yes

could the eye sighting in 1959 be the same golden custoy /.....yes

did the jesuits know how to write latin ...yes

did the jesuits pray to the cross ...yes

were the jeusits master of secretecy ...yes

would they or could they have made the stone ....Yes

was there someone in the jesuits that had the wisdon and skills to make the stones and the maped areas they pretry ... Yes kino ...

were the stones proven fake ...no

were they proven real ...No

were they found to be older than 100 years ...yes

were the stones made from more than one kind of stone ..yes

as the stones and the peralta -ruth map they had both latin and spainish wording ...

did the jesuits know the spainish . .....yes


spectfully i stated this as fact IMHO we dont know if the real Tayopa has been found yet where is the prove , where are the large bells with the name on them ...

with respect i state this out side of the respect for realdetayopa 's find ....

this is not stated to be in confect only to ask the questions needed to prove what and where the tayopa is ...
the reason i stated that was ask your self where was the golden bell found and melted ? it was not found near the sierra madre at all . and if they had been sending it from the superstitions to the sea it could have been sent from the superstitions them selfs ...

my point being .let take a good look . do you beleave that there was a vast treasure trove of the jesuits .. yes or no has little to do with it at this point . now lets say yes we beleave they had this size of a treasure . thus no one could move it with out being seen ....

i beleave the spainish slaved the indains & mexican to work the mines ...that makes one of the stories beleave if not true insight into what happen . one acount , states that the spainish had the indains working in the mine ,yet some apache got them guns and they over took the spainish and some jesuits . caseing them out into the desert in what is now masscer cayon .. killing them and takeing their bodies back to the mine to rot in hell where they had put the indains to die working the mines . this is more than beleaveable because there were almost little to no bodies found at the masscer site ... and this would explan why the spainish and the jesuit vanished all at once ...

kino had been melting gold and casting it in to bells for shiping so the spainish would not know . yet in fact he may have caused the up riseing him self and got his brother jesuits killed as well as hunderds of spainish at the same time . i beleaved he was a shame of his act and never confronted the mts again in his life time ...


we all know the chain ......., Indain , jesuit, spainish , jesuit .peralta, dutchman ,

why put the jesuits twice you ask . the kino acount says the indains showed him the mine . and the peraltas stated they got the mine from the jesuit , we dont know if they stold the mine or it was given or they just found the jesuit maps ....

if we are to beleave the stones are fake than all of this would be fake as well ... i dont think so IMHO . if it looks like a duck ,cook him up and add some beking sauce and lets find out if it was a duck or not ...© the blindbowman ,2006

are the stones real IMHO yes !

not only are they real they point out 18 locations in all only about 4 in the stones known so far . and yes the LDM and IMHO what is the real tayopa is pointed out by the stones ...

these are not facts and this is IMHO what i beleave the stones are and why ...

and with repsect to realdetayopa 's find .

 

[the blindbowman]

frist i agree Jim hatt stated they had said that the stones were over 100 years old , maybe i have mis quoted him but i dont think so..

lets go threw your questions .

1# they were not going to haul them around , hey were trying to hide them from the spainish , and if they were going to wait and relocate the sites many years after they had to last and paper and leather dose not allways last over time . besides only Kino knew how to read them at the time ...IMho yes but thats what makes me diffrent from most i am willing to beleave in logic even if there is little to no facts to prove it . it is still logic ...

and i am willing to change my mind if i see other logic that disproves the path ...

open mind is not always open to change unless the mind is beyond the spirit of the being ...

they did in fact know where the tunnle was before going to it , kino had seen it long before the treasure trove train went there ...

and yes i was refering to the heart stone inserts . this tells me the stones were not all made at the same time of the same type of stone ,, unlikely that someone makeing fakes would have thaught of doing that .....

and if they were in fact trying to missleed dutch hunters why use latin wording at all ?

if you place the heart insert in the heart stone and place it side by side the peralta ruth map . and look at where the tunnle and the pit are ,, than you will under stand they are both of the same sites as i pointed out with the 4 mt's aline ...

i can prove i already know where that site is yet it yelded nothing ... maybe the hole legends is nothing but BS ...

but i have found things that are on the maps and the stones and they are real even if the legends are Bs

"But, even so, what would that indicate?"

for one the stones were not just fast fakes if they were . secound if they were made of diffrent types of stone maybe it was done for a reason , maybe to show two diffrent parts of the treasure or two diffrent locations as i stated many times so far ...

good point , but lets look at some fact . i am not like everyone else and i translated the stones and came out miles from where everyone else was hunting . and i also related the stones not only to the sites but the peralta ruth map and the ruth dirrections as well ...

and this goes back to who made thenm and why . if Kino did make all 3 maps stones and dirrections it would make more sence than it dose now ...
you can turn a puzzle over and try to do it with out looking at the faces but its much easyer if you look at the faces ...if you want to finish the puzzle in your life time ,...lol


they found nothing now your begaining to see my point . i may be crazy ,,, crazy like a wolf .....

 

[gollum]

BlindBowman,

You are incorrect. Jim never said that. What Jim said, was to restate an email from Bob Corbin, which cleared up an old statement of his regarding seeing the Stone Maps in 1964 at the US Attorney's Office in Phoenix, Az. He said that the FBI Agents that had the stones stated that it was their "belief" that the stones were "at least" 100 years old (in 1964). The reason it was their "belief" rather than them saying that the stone maps were "positively" at least 100 years old, was because the people they showed them to at ASU stated that a date on the stones was "INCONCLUSIVE", and an examination by Professors Stephen Dana (of Redlands University) and Martin Stout (of CSULA) could not conclusively prove ANY dates of the stones. Only that based on whatever criteria they used, that they "believed" the stone maps were "at least" 100 years old. If they could have been "PROVEN BEYOND A DOUBT" that the stone maps were over 100 years old, they would have been confiscated and been owned by the State of Arizona under the Arizona Antiquities Act. Since they could not prove beyond doubt that the stones were that old, the stones had to be returned to Clarence O. Mitchell.

I can think of a dozen valid reasons to put such maps on the stones, and not on parchment or sheepskin. I can also think of a few different ways for the stones to have gotten to that spot as well. That's all conjecture though.

Best,

Mike

 

[the blindbowman]

i agree . but with no new clues can we not look past conjecture and see beyond what we think is logicial ... ..

my point is i now have a stone house in a cave .. i did not have it before ....

will it get me closer to step in and out of the beyond to try to under stand what is not under standable to us in the here and now . i was dead 13 mins when i was 7 years old death and the unknown do not scare me .. i was blind and the darkness dose not scare me ..in fact i welcome it ... i am a shamen with out a race .... i have no where else to be ... i hear them calling out and i will not walk away with out freeing them ....

the stones the maps the dirrection can not stop me and i dont need them any more at this point in the game .. i am a seer , a touchnull .i feel i am am getting closer each time . yet scott keeps saying i am not thats why i dont tell anyone what is really going on ....

no one will ever find the iron door but me ... i saw a trap even i can not get by yet ...yet ...