The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

[somehiker]

"CANCELLED"? Well that would explain why RG-Old would want to "Share" info with Deducer then, Most likely to butter him up and ride his coattails to fame and fortune and get a real movie made?!? Kinda of like what we all saw happen when he latched onto Sarge/Frank - used him then tossed that friendship away after he got all he could.

"A new beginning" ?
To what...... a fascinating legend that's been whittled down to the point where very few, let alone a major network would have any real interest in it ?
And now it's just a short story that can only be told by YouTube voicemail.

 

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[sgtfda]

Ha! A New Beginning
Title of episode 1 of the Legend show.

 

[cactusjumper]

A number of people asked me for my opinion on Ryan and his (project) early on. At first I tried to be positive, but after numerous phone calls from Ryan I got a very negative impression of him. He started putting a twist on our conversations and I eventually told him to not call me again. He did not take it well. My opinion has not changed.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[sailaway]

Old, you only got half of the doc's
If he would have found a treasure he had the paper work for that to. Go have Dave the Producer just ask Ron.

SC

Mick, had you read the response it clearly stated that Items 5 and 6 were non-existent and not included. There for according to the government no precious stones, minerals, or bullion were found. If the H.E.A.T.'s private firms archaeology reports state otherwise then means either they lied or Ron violated the terms and would have gone to jail, been fined and lost his $10,000 bond.
It does seem though they did find some archaeological evidence that Lynda was sent and has not shown to us yet? ( item #4 of her request)

 

[somehiker]

Ha! A New Beginning
Title of episode 1 of the Legend show.

Just more smoke and mirrors Frank. As the pile continues to grow.
And what does Ron's permit to dig at the spring have to do with the Tumlinson tales ?
Did it finally sink in....that no-one can legally dig for "treasure", Jesuit or any other out there.... without having a special use permit in hand ?
So much for those prior claims that RG and the SOJ didn't need one !!
I believe a S.U.P. is also required for any commercial filming.

 

[sgtfda]

Wayne
What will catch up to the new Saint first? Karma, disgruntled locals or the goons on a hunting trip.

 

[somehiker]

Good question. Karma seems to be leading the pack though.
What's your opinion on the Pegleg/ground map ?
Old enough to be a bonifide Jesuit map....circa 1700's ?

(keeping in mind what a good artist Travis is said to have been, and that for a long time the Reavis Grant map was also thought to be genuine.)

 

[cactusjumper]

Mick, had you read the response it clearly stated that Items 5 and 6 were non-existent and not included. There for according to the government no precious stones, minerals, or bullion were found. If the H.E.A.T.'s private firms archaeology reports state otherwise then means either they lied or Ron violated the terms and would have gone to jail, been fined and lost his $10,000 bond.
It does seem though they did find some archaeological evidence that Lynda was sent and has not shown to us yet? ( item #4 of her request)

View attachment 1508673

sailaway,

Perhaps there was another reason for Ron's sanctioned dig. Dr. Glover asked me what I thought Ron had at the dig. My reply was "an old spring for the cattlemen's operations. Believe that's what it turned out to be.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[somehiker]

Joe:
Spring tunnel or mine, havn't Ron and others claimed that some of the timber shoring was dated to the early 1800's ?
Long before cattlemen worked the range and piped the spring.
True or false ?

Regards:Wayne

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe:
Spring tunnel or mine, havn't Ron and others claimed that some of the timber shoring was dated to the early 1800's ?
Long before cattlemen worked the range and piped the spring.
True or false ?

Regards:Wayne

Wayne,

Believe it's false. There were a lot of claims that came out of that dig. Think it was a single piece of timber and who's to say if it came from a much older work. If people spent much time there there would have been a bit more than a single piece of shoring to date. But, of course you know that. That's, pretty much, my argument for what might have gone on there. Unless someone from the team that worked that area decides to talk, provide pictures or ore, it will always remain speculation.

Hope all is well with you,

Joe

 

[somehiker]

Wayne,

Believe it's false. There were a lot of claims that came out of that dig. Think it was a single piece of timber and who's to say if it came from a much older work. If people spent much time there there would have been a bit more than a single piece of shoring to date. But, of course you know that. That's, pretty much, my argument for what might have gone on there. Unless someone from the team that worked that area decides to talk, provide pictures or ore, it will always remain speculation.

Hope all is well with you,

Joe

Well, if false I guess there's not much point in asking Ron or Bob, since they probably wouldn't want to admit to having wasted their time and money on that project.
Good deal for the FS though, since they got some improvements to the spring flow at no expense to the taxpayer.
Another claim that's been made, is that the FS won't be issuing any more "Treasure Trove" permits.
I guess that would be true in a sense, since they actually do so via "Special Use" permit, rather than by stand-alone TT permit anyway.

All's good with me.
See ya soon.....Wayne

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Here is the story as told by rancher Billy Martin and from the County records concerning Ted Cox and the Rogers spring "HEAT" excavation.



The Roger’s Spring archaeology site is on the southwest base of Iron Mountain and was also known as the HEAT dig. This site was first excavated by Quentin (Ted) Cox in 1958 and later excavated by the HEAT team in September 2004.

The archaeology report on the Roger’s Spring (HEAT) dig was done by a private firm and paid for by private individuals. The archaeologists, Steinbeck and Rice did not do the actual excavation of the artifacts found at the site.

In 2004 the Roger’s Spring (HEAT) dig received a USFS permit to dig at the spring which allowed them to improve the flow of water from the spring for wildlife and clean up the site when they were finished.

The story of the HEAT dig is based on the notes and letters of Quentin (Ted) Cox in the 1950’s. Cox read the book Lost Mines and Buried Treasures (John Mitchell 1953) and decided the Lost Dutchman Mine was an old Spanish/Mexican mine that Jacob Waltz found in the Iron Mountain Pinto Creek area of the eastern Superstitions.

Cox believed this due to a story Mitchell wrote about an old carpenter from Florence, Arizona named “Frank” who built a rocker/washer for Jacob Waltz and learned Waltz had a mine in the Pinto Creek area on the southwest side of Iron Mountain. Mitchell provided a map of the Iron Mountain search area.

In 1958, searching with two friends (Bud Dunn and Wally Blake) from Torrance, CA. Cox believed Roger’s Spring, a water source for cattle on the range of rancher Billy Martin was the site of Waltz’s mine and or cache.

Martin owned the JF Ranch southwest of Rogers spring and had at an earlier time dug a tunnel back to the Roger’s spring head in an effort to open the spring up. Rogers spring originally flowed out of the base of Iron mountain but the flow was often weak so Martin decided to dig back into the mountain to reach a place where he could open the spring further and greatly improve its flow.

After digging a 25-30 foot tunnel back into the mountain Martin was able to open up the flow.

Martin tapped the spring and ran a pipe out of the tunnel to create a pool of water for his cattle. Martin then proceeded to cave in the tunnel so animals couldn’t get inside the tunnel and foul the water.

When Ted Cox first saw the caved in tunnel he was certain it was Waltz’s mine and cache, the mine Mitchell wrote about in his book. Cox could easily see the pipe and water coming out of the caved in area but evidently it didn’t make any difference to him. Cox and his partners went on top of a small rise directly above the spring and proceeded to dig a shaft down to meet the caved in tunnel.

Rancher Martin soon noticed the men digging and told them to stop and get off his range. Cox persisted with his digging and several encounters between Cox and Martin ensued.

Ted Cox wrote several letters to the USFS and his Congressman complaining about Martin and his efforts to deny him access to Waltz’s mine. Things came to a head when rancher Martin encountered Cox and his partners driving an excavator up the trail to the Roger’s trough and mill site. An angry, potentially dangerous encounter ensued and the Sheriff was called to advise Cox to cease and desist.

Cox wasn’t through however and his crew succeeded in digging the shaft down toward the spring where he said he encountered a main tunnel and two side chambers, one going to the right and one going to the left. Cox told a story that he and his crew excavated one of the chambers but never got the chance to excavate the other one.

Cox said that in his digging he had found a cache of gold bullion, some Spanish or Mexican type artifact, a rock wall and even some human remains. But he was never able to remove any of the gold and treasure due to “life threatening circumstances”.
About this time there was a falling out between Cox and his two partners and the two men angrily quit Cox and the search and returned to California.

Quentin Ted Cox eventually alienated every rancher and Sheriff’s deputy in the County and he tried to sue the ranchers and the County for denying him access to the area of his mine. Cox was a prolific letter writer and to read his many letters and notes will give anyone a pounding headache as his printing was a style of hieroglyphics that made your eyes blur.

Cox alleged that the local ranchers were trying to ambush him with rifles from hidden places on a high ridge and interfering with his ability to dig and remove the bullion. The ridge was Roger’s Ridge but Cox called it “Falda Ridge.”
Quentin Ted Cox died in 1983. His notes and letters are fascinating and if you can follow his sometimes pointless thought process, there is the possibility you might be captivated by his story of gold and Spanish treasure.

Incredibly, Cox’s notes and letters were used by the USFS to justify the special permit for HEAT to dig at the site even though members of the Martin family told the Forest Service there had never been any excavation done there until Billy Martin Sr. had dug into the mountain to improve the flow of the spring.

Matthew

 

[cactusjumper]

Well, if false I guess there's not much point in asking Ron or Bob, since they probably wouldn't want to admit to having wasted their time and money on that project.
Good deal for the FS though, since they got some improvements to the spring flow at no expense to the taxpayer.
Another claim that's been made, is that the FS won't be issuing any more "Treasure Trove" permits.
I guess that would be true in a sense, since they actually do so via "Special Use" permit, rather than by stand-alone TT permit anyway.

All's good with me.
See ya soon.....Wayne

Wayne,

I don't believe, for a minute, that Ron and his crew wasted their time or money. On the other hand, I do believe they were not there for any treasure hidden in the spring/cave. Pack animals and crews can move a lot of material from an area. They were going in and out on a regular basis. Probably hauled out some waste material so as not to make the clean out job more difficult.
As I said, it's all just rank speculation by me, but I don't believe Ron is anything but....very intelligent. I'm a fan.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Here is the story as told by rancher Billy Martin and from the County records concerning Ted Cox and the Rogers spring "HEAT" excavation.



The Roger’s Spring archaeology site is on the southwest base of Iron Mountain and was also known as the HEAT dig. This site was first excavated by Quentin (Ted) Cox in 1958 and later excavated by the HEAT team in September 2004.

The archaeology report on the Roger’s Spring (HEAT) dig was done by a private firm and paid for by private individuals. The archaeologists, Steinbeck and Rice did not do the actual excavation of the artifacts found at the site.

In 2004 the Roger’s Spring (HEAT) dig received a USFS permit to dig at the spring which allowed them to improve the flow of water from the spring for wildlife and clean up the site when they were finished.

The story of the HEAT dig is based on the notes and letters of Quentin (Ted) Cox in the 1950’s. Cox read the book Lost Mines and Buried Treasures (John Mitchell 1953) and decided the Lost Dutchman Mine was an old Spanish/Mexican mine that Jacob Waltz found in the Iron Mountain Pinto Creek area of the eastern Superstitions.

Cox believed this due to a story Mitchell wrote about an old carpenter from Florence, Arizona named “Frank” who built a rocker/washer for Jacob Waltz and learned Waltz had a mine in the Pinto Creek area on the southwest side of Iron Mountain. Mitchell provided a map of the Iron Mountain search area.

In 1958, searching with two friends (Bud Dunn and Wally Blake) from Torrance, CA. Cox believed Roger’s Spring, a water source for cattle on the range of rancher Billy Martin was the site of Waltz’s mine and or cache.

Martin owned the JF Ranch southwest of Rogers spring and had at an earlier time dug a tunnel back to the Roger’s spring head in an effort to open the spring up. Rogers spring originally flowed out of the base of Iron mountain but the flow was often weak so Martin decided to dig back into the mountain to reach a place where he could open the spring further and greatly improve its flow.

After digging a 25-30 foot tunnel back into the mountain Martin was able to open up the flow.

Martin tapped the spring and ran a pipe out of the tunnel to create a pool of water for his cattle. Martin then proceeded to cave in the tunnel so animals couldn’t get inside the tunnel and foul the water.

When Ted Cox first saw the caved in tunnel he was certain it was Waltz’s mine and cache, the mine Mitchell wrote about in his book. Cox could easily see the pipe and water coming out of the caved in area but evidently it didn’t make any difference to him. Cox and his partners went on top of a small rise directly above the spring and proceeded to dig a shaft down to meet the caved in tunnel.

Rancher Martin soon noticed the men digging and told them to stop and get off his range. Cox persisted with his digging and several encounters between Cox and Martin ensued.

Ted Cox wrote several letters to the USFS and his Congressman complaining about Martin and his efforts to deny him access to Waltz’s mine. Things came to a head when rancher Martin encountered Cox and his partners driving an excavator up the trail to the Roger’s trough and mill site. An angry, potentially dangerous encounter ensued and the Sheriff was called to advise Cox to cease and desist.

Cox wasn’t through however and his crew succeeded in digging the shaft down toward the spring where he said he encountered a main tunnel and two side chambers, one going to the right and one going to the left. Cox told a story that he and his crew excavated one of the chambers but never got the chance to excavate the other one.

Cox said that in his digging he had found a cache of gold bullion, some Spanish or Mexican type artifact, a rock wall and even some human remains. But he was never able to remove any of the gold and treasure due to “life threatening circumstances”.
About this time there was a falling out between Cox and his two partners and the two men angrily quit Cox and the search and returned to California.

Quentin Ted Cox eventually alienated every rancher and Sheriff’s deputy in the County and he tried to sue the ranchers and the County for denying him access to the area of his mine. Cox was a prolific letter writer and to read his many letters and notes will give anyone a pounding headache as his printing was a style of hieroglyphics that made your eyes blur.

Cox alleged that the local ranchers were trying to ambush him with rifles from hidden places on a high ridge and interfering with his ability to dig and remove the bullion. The ridge was Roger’s Ridge but Cox called it “Falda Ridge.”
Quentin Ted Cox died in 1983. His notes and letters are fascinating and if you can follow his sometimes pointless thought process, there is the possibility you might be captivated by his story of gold and Spanish treasure.

Incredibly, Cox’s notes and letters were used by the USFS to justify the special permit for HEAT to dig at the site even though members of the Martin family told the Forest Service there had never been any excavation done there until Billy Martin Sr. had dug into the mountain to improve the flow of the spring.

Matthew

Matthew,

That's a great post, and I believe it's historically accurate.

Over the years, I have been advised that Ted Cox was not someone to trust. On the other hand, his brother was a good man. Your post does nothing to dissuade me from that conclusion. I still believe Ron and his crew had another objective for working the TT Permit. It's also a fact that Ron had a "friend" inside the local forestry service. He has spoken to me a number of times and been to our home for dinner. He was a wealth of information.

Believe this is the map you mentioned:



Take care,

Joe

 

[deducer]

Frank, my money is on them disgruntled folks from down Texas way. They been knocking on doors close to home, or so I heard. Only a matter of time before they zero in. Youtube voicemails are easy to do when you're on the run.

 

[cactusjumper]

Matthew,

Something I find of great interest is how close Waltz's carpenter was to the Pit Mine. Probably just another coincidence. How many others can you name who were searching the same area?

Good luck,

Joe

 

[sgtfda]

Frank, my money is on them disgruntled folks from down Texas way. They been knocking on doors close to home, or so I heard. Only a matter of time before they zero in. Youtube voicemails are easy to do when you're on the run.

Apparently their making the rounds. Wonder if they will show up at Dons Camp this weekend? I received a few phone calls asking what's going on. I could care less. I closed that door and put it behind me.

 

[sailaway]

Joe does your map show what was printed on the red line coming off rogers spring? If so can you repost the maps picture to include that because it is significant to the Lost Dutchman Mine. What is the history on that map? No the Dutchman mine is not the spring, or the pit mine, but those searching the area were very, very close. As you all know I have walked that area thoroughly, and my only area of search.

 

[Eldo]

Apparently their making the rounds. Wonder if they will show up at Dons Camp this weekend? I received a few phone calls asking what's going on. I could care less. I closed that door and put it behind me.

There is always a "Cooler" in a Casino......someone to throw you off with conversation that is dressed up as a cowboy, or a big thug.....

As there was on the show as well.....

Think about it.....talk about finding treasures that are shown to have been based on real maps on a show....IE Peralta

And then making them out of a "Magic" Marker and a piece of paper to guide them off course......

Interesting Tactics to say the least.....

 

[Eldo]

So when that Kodak Moment hits I always pay attention....