The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

Do you think the Peralta stone maps are genuine, or fake?

  • They are genuine maps to the Lost Dutchman mine

    Votes: 12 9.9%

  • They are genuine maps to some lost mine, not necessarily the Dutchman

    Votes: 49 40.5%

  • They are fakes, created with the intention to fool

    Votes: 60 49.6%
  • Total voters
    121
Arthur, I'm still waiting for your B roll research/footage. Haven't seen any of that either.
 

Old said:
Arthur, I'm still waiting for your B roll research/footage. Haven't seen any of that either.
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Old

If I had a bee Roll I would, but I'm allergic to bee's, So I try to stay away from that.

But what's your take on the horse and priest being connected to the Jesuits.
Now I have mine, but would like to here yours it would be just delightful.

❤️Silver Chair
 

Silver, if your allergic to bees you might want to say out of the mountains this time of year. I understand they are particularly bad this year.

My personal opinion?? Yes, most definitely, horse and priest both tell a story well known to the SOJ.
 

Old said:
Arthur, I'm still waiting for your B roll research/footage. Haven't seen any of that either.
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You need to calm down, Lynda. As a few posters have said, nobody is out to get you, so there's no need to get for you to get all riled up. I think I asked a pretty straight-forward and unoffensive question:

deducer said:
Would you mind elaborating on what exactly about either the horse or "depiction of the priest" makes the Stone Maps indisputably Jesuit in origin?

Also not sure I understand the relationship between "astrological references" and the Jesuits.
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I don't see how it's insulting in any form. I am only interested in learning why you have made such a bold claim that the Stone Maps are indisputably Jesuit in origin.
 

Arthur, if I was any more calm I'd be asleep. Why do you think otherwise?

You are the one that said they were tickled pink they had caused so much drama. And you did. Had you not been so zealous you'd have the answers you seek, in open forum from the horse's mouth, so to speak. I believe there is still an offer on the table for a face to face MUTUAL sharing. Pick up the phone and make those arrangements if you are that interested.

The question on the table NOW, is about my personal opinions. I think I've made it clear when I'm providing my thoughts, or; quoting from sources. Whether its foot noted research, interviews, or my personal thoughts, I share them at my choosing, not on demand. I don't feel highly motived to share with a demanding task master in a one way conversation.
 

Silverchair said:
Markmar

If it's not carved in sight and well defined, it's not there in my book. I don't waste time on things like that. You give me a good boots on the ground shot of a symbol I'll surely give you my take on it.

SC

I do believe your on the wrong track. But good luck I wish you the best!
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SilverChair

Is not carved but lies on the ground like the little heart from the start of the trail . A part of this symbol ( the crescend moon ) is depicted on the stone cross map , and with the other parts of the symbol , represents what is written on the side of CP map . " Our church shines like the sun on the moon " .

symbol's region.jpg

I wish you good luck too in your research .
 

Maybe someone could get a SOJ on Tnet to answer questions about the symbols on the stones. It's probably hard to do.
 

markmar said:
SilverChair

Is not carved but lies on the ground like the little heart from the start of the trail . A part of this symbol ( the crescend moon ) is depicted on the stone cross map , and with the other parts of the symbol , represents what is written on the side of CP map . " Our church shines like the sun on the moon " .

View attachment 1507007

I wish you good luck too in your research .
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I always thought that the crescent moon was the alchemy symbol for silver...Unless you add a alchemy symbol for gold with it...

Who knows
 

nobodie said:
Maybe someone could get a SOJ on Tnet to answer questions about the symbols on the stones. It's probably hard to do.
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nobodie,

Back in August I posted this reply to another member concerning my experience with the Jesuit Order in the context of an article I was writing for the 2017 Superstition Mountain History Museum Journal.


I wrote an article for the Superstition Mountain Historical Society 2017 Journal about Clarence Mitchell and his involvement with the Stone Maps. That 2017 Journal will be out sometime in November or December 2017.

Because of the belief by some, Clarence Mitchell included, that the Stone Maps may have been dealing with Jesuit mines, treasure and caches in the Superstition Mountains I had occasion to contact the Jesuit order to get their input and opinion for the article.

It was no easy task getting to talk to the right people. When I first contacted the order a little over a year ago I was finally put in touch with the office of the Provincial Superior of the Jesuit Conference of Canada and the United States.

Since Arizona had no office I was directed to the Los Gatos, California office which directs all affairs and business for Arizona and California. Fr. Michael Weiler is the Provincial Superior at Los Gatos and his office and staff were most helpful in answering my inquiries. The Los Gatos office also directs the Catholic Diocese Arizona History Center at Tucson.

As of July 1st of this year the Jesuit Order underwent a much anticipated reorganization. The office of Jesuits West has now taken over the Arizona order and consolidated it with 9 other western states. Jesuits West also is the administrator for the Kino Border Initiative at Nogales, Arizona and Sonora, Mexico. The Jesuits West office is located in Portland, Oregon.

Fr. Scott Santarosa is the Provincial Superior at Jesuits West and his staff has been most patient and helpful. Fr. Alfred Naucke is the Provincial Secretary who is a wealth of information. The Jesuit order does not sponsor anyone or anything outside of their own stated goals and agendas. They are however open to those who might have questions and do their best to answer them openly and honestly.


In all of my personal inquiries concerning the Peralta Stone Maps, the Jesuit official answer and position was the order had nothing to do with the maps, did not recognize any connection between the maps and Jesuit history and were not now, or at any time in their history involved with them.



Matthew
 

But yet, Ryan claims to have a SOJ helping his show. And wants (their) stuff back.
Since they say that there is no connection between the maps and Jesuit history. Then everything is fake, right?
 

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nobodie said:
But yet, Ryan claims to have a SOJ helping his show. And wants (their) stuff back.
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nobodie,

My involvement with the Jesuit order was completely in the context of the article I was writing for the 2017 SMHS Journal. That article deals with Clarence O. Mitchell's involvement with the Stone maps and does not cross over into Travis Tumlinson's history with those same maps. My only mention of Travis Tumlinson in my conversations with the SOJ was that Clarence Mitchell received the Stone Maps from Tumlinson. That was as far as it went.

I never asked the Jesuit officials about Tumlinson or RMG and his ongoing work and the Jesuit officials never mentioned Tumlinson or RMG to me. My only focus was writing the Clarence Mitchell article.

A lot of people believe the Jesuit order is hiding their involvement in mining and treasure in Arizona and the southwest but after hearing the conversations I had with them I do not believe that to be the case.

Best,

Matthew
 

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nobodie said:
They did deny any connection to the so called Jesuit treasure maps.
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nobodie,

So everyone is clear, I only inquired about the "Peralta Stone Maps" which include the two trail maps with a heart insert and the "Preist" or "Witch" - "Horse" stone map.

All other stone maps or paper maps or "hide-skin" maps I did not inquire about.

It is altogether possible that if someone were to contact the Jesuit Order with the map shown below (paper map) it would get their attention because of the SOJ symbol in the upper left hand corner.

But I do not believe anyone at the Jesuit order would actually believe that map originated with the Jesuits.

Jesuit Witch Treasure Map orig..jpg
 

I just want you to keep in mind. Matthew is the same man that told me and you that I was mistaken about Ron Feldmen obtaining a Treasure Trove Permit. That it was just an assignment to clean out and repair an old spring. That was until I gave him the permit number, issue date, renewals and termination date. I could do that because I was holding it in my hand. Never got a mia copa from that either.

I can provide the same level of proof here. But, no. I won't. In due time.
 

I like Ryan's past videos, I still think they're great. And I believe that he will again do the best show he possibly could. I have trouble believing the SOJ after 200 years of denying the treasure (their stuff) ever existed now says they want their property back. Were they lying all of that time or did the treasure hunters make a mistake in understanding their wording? I believe 100% that it exist and no matter who or how the stones were made, what's on them is real. I don't believe that the Jesuits will ever find it.
 

Old said:
I just want you to keep in mind. Matthew is the same man that told me and you that I was mistaken about Ron Feldmen obtaining a Treasure Trove Permit. That it was just an assignment to clean out and repair an old spring. That was until I gave him the permit number, issue date, renewals and termination date. I could do that because I was holding it in my hand. Never got a mia copa from that either.

I can provide the same level of proof here. But, no. I won't. In due time.
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Old,

Nothing in my posts called for you to attack me personally with false information. Here is what I said about Ron Feldman's Heat dig at Rogers Spring (USFS Treasure Trove Permit).

The Roger’s Spring archaeology site is on the southwest base of Iron Mountain and was also known as the HEAT dig.
This site was first excavated by Quentin (Ted) Cox in 1958 and later excavated by the HEAT team in the early 2000’s.
It is believed by some to be an old Spanish or Mexican mine, and/or cache site.
The archaeology report on the Roger’s Spring (HEAT) dig was done by a private firm and paid for by private individuals.
The archaeologists, Steinbeck and Rice did not do the actual excavation of the artifacts found at the site.
The Roger’s Spring (HEAT) dig received a USFS permit to dig at the spring which allowed them to improve the flow of water from the spring for wildlife and clean up the site when they were finished.


Thats all I said.
I didn't say if the USFS permit issued to HEAT was a "Treasure Trove Permit" or not.
I talked at length on a couple of occasions with Ron Feldman about his HEAT dig and was close friends with one of his partners so knew exactly what his dig was without seeing any documentation.

If you have documentation from the SOJ on treasure maps and mines and church vestments I think that's great.
Just in my experience with them they had no information whatsoever and were not interested in pursuing the issue.
I don't know why that is so threatening to you ?
A good suggestion for you might be to stop attacking anyone who you perceive as the enemy.

Best to you as always.

Matthew
 

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