The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

[Uncle Josh]

i did some research and old highway 60 follows part of old highway 80 which before that was the old gila trail or (southern immigrant trail). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Emigrant_Trail.
so it is possible that the stones could have been put there in the 19th century.

 

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[somehiker]

There were a number of trails through that general area, dating back to the Hohokam at least. And were likely used by the various groups of natives and European explorers who came along after them. If there were any stone maps or other caches, they may have been buried within sight of any of those old trails.
The bone of contention within the group interested in the history of the stone maps is more about exactly where they were claimed to have been " found " by TT, with some saying "near US 60 where it crosses QC ", and others claiming near the older road/bridge, at Black Point or elsewhere. None of this matters of course, if Travis did not find any stone maps in the first place.

This.....from a 1938 AZ road map, clearly shows both the original road and the re-aligned highway (now known as US 60) between Apache Junction and Florence Junction.....outlined in blue.
The newer highway and it's concrete bridge over Queen Creek was only two lanes at that time, Travis' time, but it definitely bypassed the older loop and bridge to the east.





A call to ADOT would likely yield the exact date when the newer 2 lane highway was completed.

 

[Uncle Josh]

There were a number of trails through that general area, dating back to the Hohokam at least. And were likely used by the various groups of natives and European explorers who came along after them. If there were any stone maps or other caches, they may have been buried within sight of any of those old trails.
The bone of contention within the group interested in the history of the stone maps is more about exactly where they were claimed to have been " found " by TT, with some saying "near US 60 where it crosses QC ", and others claiming near the older road/bridge, at Black Point or elsewhere. None of this matters of course, if Travis did not find any stone maps in the first place.

This.....from a 1938 AZ road map, clearly shows both the original road and the re-aligned highway (now known as US 60) between Apache Junction and Florence Junction.....outlined in blue.
The newer highway and it's concrete bridge over Queen Creek was only two lanes at that time, Travis' time, but it definitely bypassed the older loop and bridge to the east.

View attachment 1406547

View attachment 1406548

A call to ADOT would likely yield the exact date when the newer 2 lane highway was completed.

i looked it up. it used to be highway 80. before that it was the gila trail or southern immigrant trail. cool maps by the way.

 

[Doc4261]

If the Pit mine was the LDM . Did anyone find the rest of the vein at the bottom that Waltz supposably removed and covered? 400 ft of vein doent fit to me as the pit mine. Just my take. Any thoughts?

 

[azdave35]

If the Pit mine was the LDM . Did anyone find the rest of the vein at the bottom that Waltz supposably removed and covered? 400 ft of vein doent fit to me as the pit mine. Just my take. Any thoughts?

where did you hear that?

 

[audigger53]

There were a number of trails through that general area, dating back to the Hohokam at least. And were likely used by the various groups of natives and European explorers who came along after them. If there were any stone maps or other caches, they may have been buried within sight of any of those old trails.
The bone of contention within the group interested in the history of the stone maps is more about exactly where they were claimed to have been " found " by TT, with some saying "near US 60 where it crosses QC ", and others claiming near the older road/bridge, at Black Point or elsewhere. None of this matters of course, if Travis did not find any stone maps in the first place.

This.....from a 1938 AZ road map, clearly shows both the original road and the re-aligned highway (now known as US 60) between Apache Junction and Florence Junction.....outlined in blue.
The newer highway and it's concrete bridge over Queen Creek was only two lanes at that time, Travis' time, but it definitely bypassed the older loop and bridge to the east.

View attachment 1406547

View attachment 1406548

A call to ADOT would likely yield the exact date when the newer 2 lane highway was completed.

I drove it while home on leave from the Navy in 1965 and they were 1/2 way through the widening then. They started from Apache Junction and that was when the old State Marker and pull off for it was removed. "Here is where the Dutchman would leave the stage to go to his mine."

 

[azdave35]

I drove it while home on leave from the Navy in 1965 and they were 1/2 way through the widening then. They started from Apache Junction and that was when the old State Marker and pull off for it was removed. "Here is where the Dutchman would leave the stage to go to his mine."

can you pinpoint the location of the old state marker?

 

[Azquester]

I drove it while home on leave from the Navy in 1965 and they were 1/2 way through the widening then. They started from Apache Junction and that was when the old State Marker and pull off for it was removed. "Here is where the Dutchman would leave the stage to go to his mine."

I thought he took his horse or Burris in there only. He actually road the stage? He was that brazen about his mine?

Did they just tow his horse and supplies on the back? I would think there would be records of that somewhere.

 

[Azquester]

Maybe one of these?


View attachment 1419285View attachment 1419286

 

[audigger53]

can you pinpoint the location of the old state marker?

Best guess was about 1/2 to a mile past "Silly Mountain" going East on Hwy 60. From 1960 to 1964 we went by it or stopped at it to eat lunch on the way to Williams Air Force Base from Florence. Not near the Peralta Trail Head Road. That is farther West of where the Monument was.

 

[audigger53]

I thought he took his horse or Burris in there only. He actually road the stage? He was that brazen about his mine?

Did they just tow his horse and supplies on the back? I would think there would be records of that somewhere.

I have stated before that there were "2 Dutchmen" with mines in the Supes. One with all the fame and one with the gold that left on the East Bound stage from Tucson after turning in $18,000 in gold with the Wells Fargo (?) agent there. Not Waltz, but Waltzer, both Jacob, both "Dutchmen".

 

[Doc4261]

Part of his deathbed story.

 

[azdave35]

Part of his deathbed story.

sorry doc but there is a thousand versions of his deathbed story...i wouldn't believe any of them if i were you

 

[Auhunt]

Interesting.here something to read

 

[sdcfia]

Interesting.here something to read

That letter has nothing to do with the Waltz story.

As you can see by the 1861 map, all of the southern half of New Mexico Territory was referred to as "Arizona" during the Civil War period. The Pinos Altos Mines were gold/silver rich workings six miles north of today's Silver City NM. The ore samples referred to were collected in 1863, following the murder of Mangas Coloradas, when the PA mines were reactivated following a lull in Apache violence. Fort Stanton was located near Lincoln NM - later famous for the Lincoln County War and the antics of Billy the Kid, but not a long-lived mining area.

 

[bobinsd]

Looks like someone found the location. See Desert News Summary and Plea for Historical Monument Status for Church Treasure Site in the Superstitions

 

[Eldo]

Mina Numero 5



Mina Numero 6



Mina Numero 7



De Peralta......

And later by the KGC and James Reavis working in conjunction with Rockefeller and Morgan to claim these former Jesuit gold and silver stores and 18 mines there.

The Stones relate to a certain area......

But the symbols used have been seen in other mines there from the Spanish so the confusion can be easy to see coming from the fact that the Lost Dutchman related to a mine that was a high saddle that was over the road....

Nearby, on the route up the canyon, the "Eye of the Needle" can be seen through...... An "Eye" does not look like a Needle, does it?



There is a massive rock slide from the earthquakes there as Waltz said......pointing the way towards the Sombrero or the Omega.....



But whatever way you find the trail you run into the markers if you look hard enough.....

from the trail they made a few landscaped X's.....they are not rocks marked ....they are large areas on the ground on a hill facing the trail so they can see which way to turn.....

Once you get to the first plateau....the area takes the shape of the Heart Canyon ....from there all the trails split off to the different mines....

there are 5 openings in one....

6 openings in another

and 7 openings at the highest area...the richest of the three.....

areas 5 and 6 are actually filled in but the 7th area is actually in the side of cliffs and in precarious locations as described......and these openings are easy to explore into the areas where the veins are located....

 

[audigger53]

Looks like someone found the location. See Desert News Summary and Plea for Historical Monument Status for Church Treasure Site in the Superstitions

Looks like someone found the location. See Desert News Summary and Plea for Historical Monument Status for Church Treasure Site in the Superstitions

So many questions come to mind about this.
1) Is the "area" that they want in the Wilderness area? If so then there is no motorized equipment allowed in a Wilderness area.
The Forestry Dept has amended that to include bicycles, by their Regulations, not the Wilderness Act.
2) If they were not in the Wilderness area, then they could file a claim on it and dig with an amount of money set aside for repairing any "damage" that they caused, set by the Forestry Dept.
Now I am talking about mining, not "Historical Artifacts", ie "any" thing that the Forestry Dept or Gov Agency wants to claim as "Historical Artifacts" that can include Ingots of any type.
3) Congress passed the Historical Artifact Law" as anything over 50 years old.
I am now a Historical Artifact by their definition.

The only way they could recover Bars/Ingots anywhere in the US and be able to keep them, would be to break the law. I am NOT saying to break the law on this site, just stating USA facts of life for "Treasure Hunters" in the USA.

 

[sailaway]

Where are the photo's of gold? I see anomalies in the GPR of the Kesselring area yet wonder how they came to conclusion that you can count bars with a photo of GPR? Yes it will show a cavern, yes it will show Ferrous and non ferrous deposits, with no way to prove if its a natural deposit or man made bars without actual visual inspection. I assume they used the numbers in the Latin Heart to say what they found. I see holes but no photos at all of what is inside them. The yellow in the one photo seems to be sulfur, which is a good sign but not what we are looking for.

Eldo, where are the photos and film you promised? The one photo you put in your post came from the net.
Personally I would rather look where the Petrasch brothers filed thier claim on 15 Nov, 1897 in the Rogers Mining District page 145 and 146 of book 15 Pinal county.
Picture from Rogers Mining District

http://superstitionmountainhikes.com/assets/USBM_MLA_136-82.pdf
U.S. Bureau of Mines Mineral Land Assessment

 

[Eldo]

Where is what Sailaway? The film ?

Here's the intro......



When this site's members stop their little hate rant I might give the members a chance to see something .......

Until then you can call up all your friends and tell them to take a peak

LOL

Kinda busy shoveling snow right now.....