The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

[sgtfda]

Correct me if I'm wrong but every report I've heard of someone dying back there was due to the lost Dutchman. That is other than hikers. Stoners follow trails except for SH. Lets put warning signs on the trailheads. IF YOU ENTER THE WILDERNESS YOU MAY DIE. But what would we do with those that can't read. What about the insane who could care less. We should also shut down all the tourist traps in the area. We must also ban all books on the subject. Oh don't forget Spirit Mountain. Don't want people dying looking for that shrine that does not exist. Why how would you feel Mary. Haven't been fibbing have you?

 

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[peralta]

I am embarrassed to write that I can not make heads or tales of your post this morning. Those who know? Those who will never believe? Who are you describing and what do they know and who will never believe what? What circle and how does one become part of it?

You asked how it is a hoax to make something and to conceal it... the only answer that I can give is that it is a matter of intention. Were they made to intentionally deceive? If so, most people would call that a hoax, even if there were no story attached. But there is, and it is inscribed into the stones. Is it all a hoax... it just may be. But there is a correct way to read the stones, so that should be ones first concern. They lead to specific things. Now these "things" may simply be nothing of particular importance or there might be something of value, just waiting for the believer. Who knows, yet.

One thing is clear, if Tom knows that name and knows without a doubt that they are an intentional hoax, he has a moral obligation to inform the public. I will not even comment on the legal exposure since I am not an attorney, although I play one on Halloween.
You are correct that "I" am owed nothing, especially by Tom, but as I believe him to be an honest and compassionate man, I chose to believe that his actions (or inaction) simply reflect a level of hope.

"Remember, Red, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies."

Hello my friend , tom k. Didn't have anything to do with the stones.he goes by his information gathered by an hunters and his own hunting.he is right that the peralta stone markings are not in the superstition mountains but they are true treasure maps .I can't post on the website and its too bad.I have more information that is needed to find the treasures but if its not posted as a thread it will get lost in the shuffle and only a few will benefit.
Tom

 

[peralta]

Hal,

This is a big deal. If Tom K. has known the stones are fakes and has said nothing then the countless number of people that have been put in harms way looking for the end of the trail is on his hands. What is terrible is that why not come forward now and be honest before someone in the future is killed out there? Also the people on this board that know the truth should also come forward.

Do not sale your soul to be friends of this bunch they are not worth it.

Mary

I located the peralta locations many years ago but I had to check all the sites to make sure all the mines were sealed,and I only found one that was opened.many search for the Dutchman using the peralta stones to guide them and I can't change their minds. I feel sad when hunters pass away in the mountains.to tell the true locations would cause a treasure frenzy last seen in sitters mill.I have lived in Hawaii for a few years and was ill. I am now better andwill be moving to Nevada in a few months where I will be closer and can resume to retrieve the treasures.
Good luck
Tom

 

[mary333]

Sgt,

I am a mother with two children a son 34, and daughter 27. Both are outdoor types and spend a lot of time in the woods. If my son was killed in the Superstitions while looking for the end of the Stone Map trail what would you tell me? Remember my son may have information from some of the crazies out there where the maps take you and no one ever said look young man here is the truth of those maps. They are a fancy directory to the Superstitions and lead to nothing of value.

If someone likes you just step to the plate and acted like a responsible adult you can save lives. Is your treasure hunter code more important than basic notions of right and wrong. Is your friendship with Tom K. that important? What if that young man who died not long ago looking for god knows what out there was looking for something of value associated with the maps. Don`t let the next death be on your hands.

Do the right thing. You and Humper believe the maps are frauds have the courage to act on your beliefs.

Mary

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe,

In order to put a puzzle together, you have to look for pieces that are a perfect match. I understand that there are many pieces of different puzzles mixed together. It doesn't hurt to look at these different pieces, but don't force them to fit into the LDM picture. While it is an old puzzle, with missing pieces, in my opinion, you can still make out the picture when you connect the right pieces.

Homar

Homer,

I have not forced any pieces of the puzzle to fit where they don't belong. I leave that for others.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Cubfan64]

I may be in the minority here, but I believe in personal responsibility first and foremost. Nobody MAKES another person do anything in life - it's all about choices. One of the glaring problems in America these days is the lack of personal responsibility - everything is someone else's fault and the finger pointing begins immediately when something bad happens.

If I were to die in the mountains (which sadly enough is a very real possibility since I generally explore alone, like to get as far as possible off the beaten paths, and have been known to take a few risks that in hindisight I probably shouldn't have taken), I would blame nobody but myself. I made the choices that got me into the situation despite what I may have read or who I listened to.

Lastly, how many "stone map believers" would take Tom K. or anyone else's word for it if they told them the true name of the stone carver?? In most of their minds, they would just pass it off as hearsay or assume the name is being supplied to "throw people off the track," etc... The fact is, people use Google Earth, topo maps, boots on the ground hiking etc... to find their pieces to the puzzle that they think fit the stone maps and for most of them, nobody will ever convince them they are wrong in their theory.

 

[sgtfda]

Why Mary I don't think the maps are frauds. After all I know where the true heart is. It's the treasure I have a problem with. The maps exist and we are all working to find out why. Everyone has a opinion. If some moron goes into the mountains and does not come out they only have themselves to blame. No different than a woman I watched hike down into the Grand Canyon in high heels with no water. Or the idiots hiking up the city mountains in 110 degree heat. The world is full of them and nothing anyone says will change their behavior. Lets make it official. If you are a moron or idiot do not go treasure hunting in the mountains following maps that someone found along the road. You may die of thirst or fall off a cliff. A loin may eat you or a snake may bite you. Do not go to the rendezvous at Dons camp. They will only try to sell you a book and the above may happen to you when you go searching for the treasure the book tells you is there. It's best you stay in your house and watch others being carried out on the television.
Now Mary why don't you post a little picture of yourself so we can see you in your pink dress.

 

[cactusjumper]

For a number of years now, I have said I believe the maps are a hoax. On the other hand, I believe they are an accurate hoax, meaning they show the actual terrain of a certain area of the Superstitions.

Tom has been saying for years that he believes the Stone Maps are a hoax. After writing that in the newspaper, his "friend" xxx called him on the phone and called him every name in the book. I believe he was also ridiculed on DUSA. Bottom line is, even someone as well respected as Tom will be publicly, as well as privately, ridiculed for voicing that kind of an opinion. Just look at what's happening here.

Many of the boasters here, are not worthy to clean his horse's stall.

You may all quote me on that!

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Cubfan64]

sgtfda said...

A loin may eat you

Is that a freudian slip?

 

[cactusjumper]

sgtfda said...



Is that a freudian slip?

Believe that's what happened to Roy Horn in Las Vegas......Got to close to a wild loin. I escaped with my life from such close encounters a number of times, in my youth.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[wrmickel1]

For a number of years now, I have said I believe the maps are a hoax. On the other hand, I believe they are an accurate hoax, meaning they show the actual terrain of a certain area of the Superstitions.

Tom has been saying for years that he believes the Stone Maps are a hoax. After writing that in the newspaper, his "friend" xxx called him on the phone and called him every name in the book. I believe he was also ridiculed on DUSA. Bottom line is, even someone as well respected as Tom will be publicly, as well as privately, ridiculed for voicing that kind of an opinion. Just look at what's happening here.

Many of the boasters here, are not worthy to clean his horse's stall.

You may all quote me on that!

Joe Ribaudo

We'll Catusjumper

I could use a job!

Wrmickel1

 

[mary333]

Sarge:

There is a reason why Tom has no interest in the stones at all. He knows who made them. We share some same interests and I have trouble getting a word in. I like and trust him and I pay attention to what he has to say.
However there are things out there. Artifacts have been found in the past. So guys unless you have found time period artifacts your in the wrong hole or don't know how to cover a site.
Found a US Geological survey map for the Roosevelt dam project. Pre dam. Covers the whole area and that is interesting. The whole mountain area from Phoenix to Globe is included.

Humper:

See you deleted your post. Don`t worry I saved it. You also believe the person who did this is the same as Tom thinks.

So the two of you have material knowledge that could save someone`s life and you prefer to sit on it.


Mary

 

[wrmickel1]

Sarge:

There is a reason why Tom has no interest in the stones at all. He knows who made them. We share some same interests and I have trouble getting a word in. I like and trust him and I pay attention to what he has to say.
However there are things out there. Artifacts have been found in the past. So guys unless you have found time period artifacts your in the wrong hole or don't know how to cover a site.
Found a US Geological survey map for the Roosevelt dam project. Pre dam. Covers the whole area and that is interesting. The whole mountain area from Phoenix to Globe is included.

Humper:

See you deleted your post. Don`t worry I saved it. You also believe the person who did this is the same as Tom thinks.

So the two of you have material knowledge that could save someone`s life and you prefer to sit on it.


Mary

Mary

Many people here warn others of the dangers of the hunt, its a risk we all take, But you can't mess with free will, If your gonna blame a death on someone because they kept a secret or two, I think were all guilty.


Wrmickel1

 

[cactusjumper]

Is Mary still obsessed with me?

Joe Ribaudo

 

[mary333]

the hunt

Wrmickle,

This is not about a hunt it is about a lie. I believe Sarge and Hal are decent people. Buzzard and Tom K. have made a terrible decision to sit on this.
Of course Joe has shown his true colors by deleting his post. He wants to have Sarge set up if things head south.

Just let the public know who did this and stop anyone else getting killed out there because of a lie.

Hal Groves:

One thing is clear, if Tom knows that name and knows without a doubt that they are an intentional hoax, he has a moral obligation to inform the public. I will not even comment on the legal exposure since I am not an attorney, although I play one on Halloween.
You are correct that "I" am owed nothing, especially by Tom, but as I believe him to be an honest and compassionate man, I chose to believe that his actions (or inaction) simply reflect a level of hope.

At least there is one man on this board who has the courage to be honest.

Mary

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal:
Sometimes it is best to let sleeping dogs lay undisturbed.
Focus on the stones themselves, rather than which of the many claims of provenance is factual.
If you're doing it right, the pieces you find by using only the maps will eventually fall into place, giving you the answer as to who made them, when they made them, and why they made them.

Regards:SH.

I find it amazing that on a free and open social network like TN, people are actually discouraged from discussing certain thoughts and ideas. Why am I not allowed to question the comments that Tom makes or the things that he believes? I have not been disrespectful, or rude, in fact, just the opposite I would argue. And remember, I was not the one who threw Tom into the parade.

Regarding who made the stones. I already believe in a name. There was only one person who could have done it and you already know his name, but you are not ready to consider it. Which is perfectly fine. When your search is done, and IF you reach a dead end, that name will still be there.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Mary. I can only speak from personal experiences, in this case, about The Tayopa - I know guys, but relax, sheeesh - this was a legendary Jesuit mine operated in the early 1600's, but was closed when the Jesuits were forced out of the area by the Indian uprising.

It has never been reopened to anyone's knowledge, There were no solid records available, yet literally hundreds have searched for it over the years, 'many' died in the search - the Apache weren't so benevolent then..

So, like others with the Dutchman, I also started the search for the magnificent Tayopa, and eventually was successful.

Yes, there were various times when I might have been just another missing statistic - just as can happen in the Superstitions, but I survived to eventually find and own Tayopa.

So it is with the Dutchman, perhaps it is just a dream, perhaps not, but that part is not critical, what is important is that one sets out to follow a dream and in a way to test him / herself. The lessons learned along the way, and the experiences which no one else will feel or have, are what makes a person's character and forms a book of memories to be cherished and reviewed many times later in life.

The experiences are what matters most, even the anti climax of finding Tayopa tends to pale in comparison. Experiences which included the privilege of seeing things that hadn't been touched since the jesuits left, and on, things which cannot be experienced today since areas where it took me days and weeks to reach by mule, have ranches and even villages today.

Frankly, I doubt that those who actually and sincerely have searched for the Dutchman, consider the experiences as useless. There may be regrets in not finding it, but not for the experiences in looking for it and the self esteem of knowing that they 'did' it.

I am sure that my friend cubber, who goes it alone, can readily testify to this. He has learned to know himself,and is still learning and is the better from having done this.

So Mary the mere publishing of the fact ( ? ) that the Dutchman is a hoax will never stop searchers. Gals and men need their dreams and for dragons to vanquish.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Hal Croves]

I may be in the minority here, but I believe in personal responsibility first and foremost. Nobody MAKES another person do anything in life - it's all about choices. One of the glaring problems in America these days is the lack of personal responsibility - everything is someone else's fault and the finger pointing begins immediately when something bad happens.

If I were to die in the mountains (which sadly enough is a very real possibility since I generally explore alone, like to get as far as possible off the beaten paths, and have been known to take a few risks that in hindisight I probably shouldn't have taken), I would blame nobody but myself. I made the choices that got me into the situation despite what I may have read or who I listened to.

Lastly, how many "stone map believers" would take Tom K. or anyone else's word for it if they told them the true name of the stone carver?? In most of their minds, they would just pass it off as hearsay or assume the name is being supplied to "throw people off the track," etc... The fact is, people use Google Earth, topo maps, boots on the ground hiking etc... to find their pieces to the puzzle that they think fit the stone maps and for most of them, nobody will ever convince them they are wrong in their theory.

That is not the point. It does not matter how many would take Tom's word for it. The point is that the in telling the truth as he sees it, his public would have the chance to vet the story. Let us have the chance to do the research and to establish our own conclusions. Tom is a public figure who writes about history. Why would Tom share that story as a secret, between friends who post about it and not publicly? He has the perfect platform to set things straight, as he see it. Why not? That story obviously has been around for some time and the engraver must be long gone by now. (?)

This is the only part of the stone maps that I find unsettling.
Secrets and the paranoia that it feeds.





Also... I would be very pissed if you ended up dead.
Just so you know.

 

[Hal Croves]

Wrmickle,

This is not about a hunt it is about a lie. I believe Sarge and Hal are decent people. Buzzard and Tom K. have made a terrible decision to sit on this.
Of course Joe has shown his true colors by deleting his post. He wants to have Sarge set up if things head south.

Just let the public know who did this and stop anyone else getting killed out there because of a lie.

Hal Groves:

One thing is clear, if Tom knows that name and knows without a doubt that they are an intentional hoax, he has a moral obligation to inform the public. I will not even comment on the legal exposure since I am not an attorney, although I play one on Halloween.
You are correct that "I" am owed nothing, especially by Tom, but as I believe him to be an honest and compassionate man, I chose to believe that his actions (or inaction) simply reflect a level of hope.

At least there is one man on this board who has the courage to be honest.

Mary

mary333,
You have the wrong man. If I had any courage I would just post the name that I believe carved the stones. But I know the repercussions of doing so because of who this man was and the group(s) this man associated with. The conversation is moving forward and I am happy to see that we are exchanging ideas. I want to keep that momentum. That name will bring this free exchange to a halt and I will again be in the dog house... hiding from the dogs. I want to avoid that for now.

Whomever you are, thank you for the kind words.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hi Hal,

For many, MANY years, some folks have said they know who carved the stone maps. The list of carvers is a long one and fights have broken out among those who say one party carved them while others say another party carved them. It's not worth arguing over, or losing friends over or making enemies because you agree or disagree with any certain person.

Jesuits are identified by some as the carvers, the Peraltas also, Travis Tumlinson was said to have carved the Stones, Peg Leg Smith was another suspected carver, Ted DeGrazia, Chuck Aylor, even Ted DeGrazia and Chuck Aylor together, Barry Storm got some good votes, Barney Barnard along with a couple others.

The bottom line is no one knows who carved the Stone Maps for sure. There are a lot of suspects and everyone has a favorite and sticks with their favorite.

As I said, it's not worth arguing, making enemies or losing friends over. If you really need to know the name of the "mystery carver", PM me your email and I'll give you the name and where to find the person and the story. Rest assured, it's no big deal.

Matthew K. Roberts

Matthew Roberts,
Yes, I want to know the name, but if it is something that I must keep a secret, than it is best that you keep it to yourself. It is a kind offer and I appreciate it, but I would be compelled to research it and to share the results.
Thank you again for the help.