The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

[Springfield]

Hal, would you by chance be comfortable posting or forwarding a copy of the spreadsheet with results? I would love to see that.

I'm a chemist, not a geologist, so I can only really approach this stuff from one perspective. There are a few things that confuse me a little bit:

1) The term anomalous is used in many places in the e-mail - I generally use the term to mean something like "unexpected." I can't tell if the e-mail author is using it the to mean the same thing in all cases......

I will say two things though regarding the data:

1) As a general rule, when it comes to any sort of analysis of materials, the first and foremost step is ALWAYS sampling - if you don't get good, representative samples, no matter how good your analysis and interpretation is, you have the chance of drawing incorrect conclusions. ...

The data needs to be analyzed - the email by itself is inconclusive.

An anomalous return on the samples means there was a higher concentration of metals at certain locations in the drainages sampled, based on the methodology chosen. We would need to see a complete listing of sample locations to determine how thoroughly the target area was sampled. We would also need to see the ppm results on the tests. An anomalous return can be interpreted in many ways because both the sample locations and the upstream conditions can vary wildly. More samples mean more reliable results. A few grab samples don't tell us much.

As you said, the sampling technique itself is critical. Limiting the sample points to 'natural heavy mineral traps' will by definition produce higher mineral values, and IMO is a risky peg to hang one's hat on regarding upstream conditions because not all 'natural heavy mineral traps' are created equal.

The email and maps are interesting, but I'd be reluctant to draw conclusions from them.

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Wr, "Keep ye cotton pickin hooks to yourself."
Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Cleveland B.]

Whether the Stone Maps are fake or not,
they will continue to have zero bearing on the
actual reality of mineral/treasure deposits anywhere,
of course.

Being “fakes” as opposed to simply a “non-related map” implies that they are
crafted to falsely describe their presumed target. Were that the case,
one might expect the years since their discovery to be accompanied
with plenty of wildly conflicting interpretation (genuine and coordinated):
some would say that has happened.

Even if that were the case, those attentive to the magicians misdirection
can increase their odds of discovering the trick. Who are the magicians?
Personally, I would be compelled to study the stone maps no less were
they "fake" or "real". Where there is so much smoke, there is usually fire, IMO.

Onward through the Fog (or smoke)

CB

 

[sgtfda]

Hal it was 114 back there yesterday. Better hurry before it gets hot
Hit a area that was sampled couple months back. Every 12" was sampled and tagged. The whole hilltop

 

[somehiker]

Frank:
With all of this sampling being done lately by reputable companies, it seems that those who would know best are at complete odds with those who claim the mountains have no valuable deposits of gold or silver. Kinda makes you wonder, doesn't it ?

Best:Wayne

 

[sgtfda]

SH. That location was not in the mountains but the hills of Morristown.
Just about everyone on this site has their own location. They all have rocks and trails that look like part of the stones maps. Some even have a little gold or silver in the dirt. Not unusual in Arizona. Unless you find some artifacts from the time period of your search in that area move on. You are in a wrong spot. I've worked sites from many time periods back to the 1700's and artifacts are always found. A friend worked a site on Coronado's trail and you would not believe was was found. SH that is what I was doing on that one spot. In this type area artifacts will be very close to or laying on the surface.

 

[somehiker]

Sorry Frank. Thought you were talking about the hill you had mentioned last week.
Everyone interested in the stone maps does have a different way of looking at them, a diversity which adds greatly to their popularity.
I could be in the wrong spot, been there before, and when that happens I do move on.

Best:Wayne

 

[sgtfda]

SH

That hill is just a landmark for further travel. Things do point to your site and it remains to be seen what the area contains. In the past i located a site after searching every square inch of a three mile wide area back in high mountains. Took several years and the item was found in a one foot square spot. You never know.

 

[somehiker]

Back when I thought it possible for DeGazia to have made the H/P stone, based partly on the priest's hat being identical to those worn by Navajo men in many of his drawings and paintings, I wondered if the "treasure" would be a half bottle of 1847 vintage Chivas Regal and a congratulatory note from DG himself. It's not what I think now, but it's still possible I suppose. Wouldn't take up much more than a square foot. I had little interest in the other stones, even then.
I've always considered another possibility, that I am merely following in the footsteps and in the same area that whoever made them had spent some time camping out, or just hiking themselves. Tom's acquaintance would likely be such a person, having been a carver of gravestones. He may have decided to use his talents to create something to be remembered by, or even to play a practical joke on his friends. If so, I hope to find something of a "punch line" as closure.

Best:Wayne

 

[sgtfda]

There is a reason why Tom has no interest in the stones at all. He knows who made them. We share some same interests and I have trouble getting a word in. I like and trust him and I pay attention to what he has to say.
However there are things out there. Artifacts have been found in the past. So guys unless you have found time period artifacts your in the wrong hole or don't know how to cover a site.
Found a US Geological survey map for the Roosevelt dam project. Pre dam. Covers the whole area and that is interesting. The whole mountain area from Phoenix to Globe is included.

 

[somehiker]

I like and trust Tom as well. Have a great deal of respect for him and his opinions.
But I also like to follow my own trail sometimes, just because ...
He knows who made them and that is something I would like to know too.
It's just another factor which makes them even more interesting to me.
Once I know who and why, I'll probably shift my attention to one of the other things I was working on before I got hooked by the stones.

 

[sgtfda]

SH think back to what you observed the Indians doing and where.

 

[somehiker]

SH think back to what you observed the Indians doing and where.

That's often on my mind Frank. One was obviously showing the others around, and seemed to be familiar with whatever was there.
I know there is something in the general area which may go back a long time, as nearby ruins would indicate.
I was only a couple of hundred yards away, so I was able to get a few snaps without being seen.
But I haven't climbed up there myself to see what it was that they found so interesting.
Maybe later.

 

[cactusjumper]

Wayne and Frank,

Next time either of you are talking to Tom, you might want to ask him about DeGrazia. Be patient....."A good friend takes a long time to grow".

Good luck,

Joe

 

[somehiker]

I'd like to see Tom do an article about his relationship with DG, and what he knows about DG's interest in the stones and the Jesuits.
Tom suggested getting together for breakfast some time ago.
I wasn't down there at the time, so I couldn't.
Maybe next fall, if the offer still stands.

Regards:Wayne

 

[Cubfan64]

The data needs to be analyzed - the email by itself is inconclusive.

An anomalous return on the samples means there was a higher concentration of metals at certain locations in the drainages sampled, based on the methodology chosen. We would need to see a complete listing of sample locations to determine how thoroughly the target area was sampled. We would also need to see the ppm results on the tests. An anomalous return can be interpreted in many ways because both the sample locations and the upstream conditions can vary wildly. More samples mean more reliable results. A few grab samples don't tell us much.

As you said, the sampling technique itself is critical. Limiting the sample points to 'natural heavy mineral traps' will by definition produce higher mineral values, and IMO is a risky peg to hang one's hat on regarding upstream conditions because not all 'natural heavy mineral traps' are created equal.

The email and maps are interesting, but I'd be reluctant to draw conclusions from them.

Good points Springfield! The question that popped into my head about the term "anomalous" was anomalous as compared to what? In my work, we test our product all the time and have a good idea what the baseline results are for every element we test for. When we get a sample that for some reason has an element outside of our upper or lower limits (based on our baseline testing), we would call that anomalous and look for a source for that cause. In this case, I guess I don't know whether they have some type of baseline values to compare against or not.

I don't think Hal is using these results as a clear indicator that he is on to something with his theory. I think it is just one in a line of data to help him flesh out his theory and test it.

I agree that there may very well be issues with the sampling in this case, so I too would probably not consider anything conclusive from this. It is something interesting to look into though.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal it was 114 back there yesterday. Better hurry before it gets hot
Hit a area that was sampled couple months back. Every 12" was sampled and tagged. The whole hilltop

Heat is not a problem for me, but I struggle in humidity.
First you don't want me to fly, then you discourage me from driving out and now its too hot...are you trying to tell me something?
Train? Bus?

 

[wrmickel1]

Heat is not a problem for me, but I struggle in humidity.
First you don't want me to fly, then you discourage me from driving out and now its too hot...are you trying to tell me something?
Train? Bus?

Hal

I would ditch the calvery suit. Maybe some shorts and a T.

Wrmickel1

 

[sgtfda]

Hal all I'm telling you is we are having record heat. It's your bones and you can deposit them where you wish. For myself it's in my pool for now or a trip up north.

 

[Hal Croves]

There is a reason why Tom has no interest in the stones at all. He knows who made them. We share some same interests and I have trouble getting a word in. I like and trust him and I pay attention to what he has to say.
However there are things out there. Artifacts have been found in the past. So guys unless you have found time period artifacts your in the wrong hole or don't know how to cover a site.
Found a US Geological survey map for the Roosevelt dam project. Pre dam. Covers the whole area and that is interesting. The whole mountain area from Phoenix to Globe is included.

If Tom knew, with 100% certainty, who actually made the stones, one would think that a man of his reputation and character would be morally obligated to reveal that name and to expose the accompanying hoax, if it is a hoax.
Money is being made, lives are being placed at great risk, fraud is expected and Tom feels no compulsion to expose it, definitively?
I don't know the man but I just don't see him allowing it to continue unless he himself questioned the validity of that story.
Otherwise why not tell the name?

A carver of headstones... working in the area? Sounds like that name might be found in a local public directory as it is a specialized field. Yes, a professional engraver could have carved the stones, but not just any engraver could have conceptualized them.
Tom may believe it, and in his mind that would be a truth, but I am almost positive that the story is not correct. Almost. Who can no for sure?