The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

coazon de oro said:
Howdy Ellie B.,

If I had no idea, I wouldn't have made the statement.

The creator of the stone maps only had to know his area of the Superstitions. He did not have to know about all the different horses, horse parts, hearts, priests, springs, caves, trails, empty holes, signs, numbers, and every other worthless clue that everyone has found.

Look at Mr. Forrest Fenn's treasure, relatively new compared to the PSM's. Look at all the different places people have found where the clues line up. Mr. Fenn didn't have to know about all these different places to write his waybill, did he.

Homar
Click to expand...

Homar,

You are exactly correct my friend. These Stone Maps were designed to miss-lead and confuse, too much information and no idea where to use it.

Ellie B
 

Ellie Baba said:
Homar,

You are exactly correct my friend. These Stone Maps were designed to miss-lead and confuse, too much information and no idea where to use it.

Ellie B
Click to expand...

Well I beg to differ once again there EB

The Stone Maps are not the confusion here. Its wacked out theories about stars and luner alinments or topo maps and the ones who spread that crap. You seem to be a smart man, So start over but only use the smarts of there time, Life was alittle less bites and bits back then.

I see a rewrite in your future,
"STOP THE PRESS"

Cause if you an't shoveling it and your not spreading it, Then you must be full of it.

What I'm I

Wrmickel1
 

Shadow of the Sentinel, by Bob Brewer and Warren Getler

sgtfda said:
Adamsville?
Click to expand...

Hello there sgtfda,

Adamsville (Sanford), AZ., just west of Florence. Check out the Chapter on Arizona in Bob Brewer's book;

Shadow of the Sentinel: One Man's Quest to Find the Hidden Treasure of the Confederacy [Paperback] Warren Getler (Author), Bob Brewer (Author)
4.1 out of 5 stars See all reviews (33 customer reviews) Available @ Amazon.com or your local library. 4.1 out of five stars
is pretty darn good. There's that number 33 again.


Skull-oildrumlid.JPG

Later,

Ellie B
 

somehiker said:
EB:

That map has been around since 1973.
Might be time for a re-think...

DesertUSA.com/mb3 ? View topic - FRONTIER TIMES - 1973 - PERALTA STONE MAPS ARTICLE

View attachment 796868
Click to expand...

Haven't been reading my earlier posts have ya? I shared this article with Bob Brewer back in 1998 before he wrote his book. I also made a statement explaining to everyone to read this article prior to reading my book. I will document what Bernice and the others missed. She said something about finding another horse. We found four.

Thank you for reminding our readers.

EB
 

wrmickel1 said:
Well I beg to differ once again there EB

The Stone Maps are not the confusion here. Its wacked out theories about stars and luner alinments or topo maps and the ones who spread that crap. You seem to be a smart man, So start over but only use the smarts of there time, Life was alittle less bites and bits back then.

I see a rewrite in your future,
"STOP THE PRESS"

Cause if you an't shoveling it and your not spreading it, Then you must be full of it.

What I'm I

Wrmickel1
Click to expand...

Wrmickel,

Well I guess you need to bring your doubting derriere on out this way and see the sites. I can put my money where my mouth is; and that ain't no BS.

Your welcome anytime if you can take the heat cause we work right on through the summer.

Later,

Ellie B
 

coazon de oro said:
Howdy Hal,

I thanks for your concern, and for the clarification of your promise.

In my opinion, no extensive knowledge of the Superstitions was needed to create the stones. Having seen what I believe to be the source of the stones, no milling is required, if they wanted a smoother surface, they could just rub the slabs together. The only skill required would be stone engraving, but the stones are far from being a work of art like the Mayas could create. One basic skill does not make a list.

The stones came close to being lost to civilization, makes one wonder how many things have been covered with asphalt, or concrete.

Homar
Click to expand...

Obviously we have our own thoughts on what it would take to make the stones. But just to be clear, when I wrote "to make", I was not writing about the actual process of carving a stone. I was describing everything (skill set, education, profession, ect.) that would be needed to even attempt such a project. That list is actually quite long.

The best analogy I can offer is something like trying to understand/ID the man who constructed the Loretto staircase. Without a name, researchers must build a profile of the man base on what is known and the results of his work. Above average intelligence, classically trained in carpentry, familiar with math... with a little effort, this list can become substantial. (Ellie... it has 33 stairs).

Well, the stones were not lost to history. Remember, one was protruding from the earth when found. Amazing when you try to reason how something buried intentionally can make its way to the surface. Here, where it gets very cold, stones are forced to the surface with the freeze and eventual thawing. Knowing the climate and composition of the earth where the stones were discovered, I wonder if this process is even possible in that location. I honestly do not know.

Planting the stones at a highway construction site was, when one thinks about it, a perfect approach. So, that is another thing to add to the list. Someone familiar with Arizona's highway expansion project.
 

Last edited:
"Thank you for reminding our readers."

That was my intention EB.
It's easy to forget the original sources in favour of something "new".
I have opened many PM's and E-Mails over the last four years, giving me a "Heads-Up" that "new information" or a "new publication" was imminent.
Some even claimed that "the cr-p is about to fly" or "you will be sure disappointed when you see me with the treasure on the History Channel next month!!!!!"
In every case, no such revelations or publications have surfaced. So forgive me if I seem a bit jaded, but I've saved them all, and sometimes think they would make a good book in themselves. Perhaps a collection of case studies for some psychology student to base his dissertation upon.
I could go on about some of the other messages I frequently receive, which strange as they are, do offer some insight into the minds and the motives of the senders.
But that might all be discussed in a more appropriate venue.

Regards:SH.
 

Last edited:
markmar said:
Hal

No need to fly to make a map . They had survey tools to make a map .
You are right about overlays , but to do a correct overlay must to follow some clues . In the stones maps , the priest or witch represents the Weavers Needle and you are little far away . All the stone tablets have orientation NE or SW ( to or from Santa Fe ) and you have orientation SE . You are close but not correct , IMO .
The stones trail is a simple map and you can do an overlay ( if you know the clues or instructions ) . The priest and horse stone tablets , have double meanings . Are maps , but give some clues and instructions .

Marius
Click to expand...

Compare the 1909 topo to an actual aerial image of the same area. Is it a 100% match? Today, topos are created from aerial imagery.
 

coazon de oro said:
Howdy Hal,

I thanks for your concern, and for the clarification of your promise.

In my opinion, no extensive knowledge of the Superstitions was needed to create the stones. Having seen what I believe to be the source of the stones, no milling is required, if they wanted a smoother surface, they could just rub the slabs together. The only skill required would be stone engraving, but the stones are far from being a work of art like the Mayas could create. One basic skill does not make a list.

The stones came close to being lost to civilization, makes one wonder how many things have been covered with asphalt, or concrete.

Homar
Click to expand...

Homar:

I will be saving this post, and will quote it later on.
Both comments are very important to the history of the stones and to what they represent IMO.
Asphalt, concrete and at least one arrastre (MONETA) all seemed to have been a factor in both their creation and their having remained a mystery.

Regards:SH.
 

Last edited:
Hal if you think the stones are modern what is the target of the maps.
Sorry to be dense tonight, but I am not sure of what you are asking.

Do the early arial photographs of the area show the same thing as GE?
No two aerial photographs are ever the same. As the sun shifts, the image must change.

Or do you think the area was observed from a aircraft?
The entire area was recorded on film by an aircraft. Several times after 1929.

In your opinion was a drawing or photo used as a reference for the carving?
IMO - A photo was obtained and the image built (traced) onto either acetate or tracing paper. After that, the image should have been transferred on to the stones and then carved. Simple.

Why go through all that trouble?
This is something that we must each answer for ourselves.

Why not just retrieve the target.
I guess that depends on what the target is. As I said, the targets are either the locations, or something of value at the locations. Not everyone values the same thing.

Do you feel this is a group deposit that Is meant to remain we're it is hidden.
I honestly do not know. In 1948, one could do just about whatever they wanted in the Superstitions, including blowing things up. If I found something incredible, and did not want it exploited, I might find a way to preserve the discovery for a future time.

Why then place the stones were it is said they were found.
Because they would be found and eventually find their way into society/culture. Did this not happen? People are still guessing because... it was encrypted.

If they were not found as Tumlinson stated what was he doing with them?
The story may be true, but it may have been altered. There is just as much chance that Tumlinson purchased the first stone and returned to the discovery site to find the other stones. Who knows, but I do believe that Tumlinson believed they were real.

Why did the group not take action after the stone recovery was announced?
What group? This was one man, perhaps with help from his wife that carved the stones. Unfortunately, he died not too long after the Life Magazine article was published.
 

wrmickel1 said:
Well I beg to differ once again there EB

The Stone Maps are not the confusion here. Its wacked out theories about stars and luner alinments or topo maps and the ones who spread that crap. You seem to be a smart man, So start over but only use the smarts of there time, Life was alittle less bites and bits back then.

I see a rewrite in your future,
"STOP THE PRESS"

Cause if you an't shoveling it and your not spreading it, Then you must be full of it.

What I'm I

Wrmickel1
Click to expand...

I am not sure why you need to post things like this. It is your right I guess, but honestly, it reflects poorly. Ellie's work is complicated for sure, but it is also just as valid as anything that has been shared on TN.
 

somehiker said:
"I have been reading about the Tucson Artifacts. Amazing how things like these seem to be found not far from modern road. Do these roads follow ancient trails, or are roadways just a convenient place to plant a discovery?"

Hal:
I had read your original post just before I left for work this morning, but didn't have time to make a reply.
Thought I might do so when I returned home, since I was wondering if this was the direction in which you were headed.
Your edits answer that question for me. Was one of the folks you had mentioned being in contact with, Ben Davis by chance ?
He does have some interesting ideas, to say the least.

Regards:SH.
Click to expand...

I have never had a conversation with anyone named Ben Davis. I am also not sure what you mean by "the direction in which you were headed". Simply put, I believe they were made between 1929 and the discovery date.. whatever that is. And that they were made by one remarkable man.
 

Hal Croves said:
Obviously we have our own thoughts on what it would take to make the stones. But just to be clear, when I wrote "to make", I was not writing about the actual process of carving a stone. I was describing everything (skill set, education, profession, ect.) that would be needed to even attempt such a project. That list is actually quite long.

The best analogy I can offer is something like trying to understand/ID the man who constructed the Loretto staircase. Without a name, researchers must build a profile of the man base on what is known and the results of his work. Above average intelligence, classically trained in carpentry, familiar with math... with a little effort, this list can become substantial. (Ellie... it has 33 stairs).

Well, the stones were not lost to history. Remember, one was protruding from the earth when found. Amazing when you try to reason how something buried intentionally can make its way to the surface. Here, where it gets very cold, stones are forced to the surface with the freeze and eventual thawing. Knowing the climate and composition of the earth where the stones were discovered, I wonder if this process is even possible in that location. I honestly do not know.

Planting the stones at a highway construction site was, when one thinks about it, a perfect approach. So, that is another thing to add to the list. Someone familiar with Arizona's highway expansion project.
Click to expand...

Howdy Hal,

Just to be clear, I did take everything into consideration, no need to try and compare apples to oranges, no math skills, other than the ability to count would be needed.

You don't have to break your head to understand that the stone didn't make it's way out of the ground. The priest/horse stone which is the instruction stone, was buried edgewise protruding out of the ground some so that they could find it later on. Travis tripped on it, that is the original statement before everyone twisted things around.

Homar
 

Hal Croves said:
I have never had a conversation with anyone named Ben Davis. I am also not sure what you mean by "the direction in which you were headed". Simply put, I believe they were made between 1929 and the discovery date.. whatever that is. And that they were made by one remarkable man.
Click to expand...

Do you believe the Tucson artifacts and the Stone Maps are related in some way ?

Regards:SH.
 

Last edited:
sgtfda said:
As time marches on the more clouded the issues become. The target could have been collected years ago. The search continues by others looking for something long gone. Or perhaps not.
Click to expand...

Although finding the target would give a great deal of satisfaction in itself, thus validating one's own search, if a cache of some historic value does remain, it may allow an experience similar to that of Howard Carter on Nov. 26, 1922. Or at the very least from what I can tell, that experienced by many such explorers who entered a place from which unfortunately, everything but the litter had been previously removed. I am hoping for the former, since there is no evidence of the latter visible within either of the photo's which give the best views. The fact that identifiable artifacts are visible did concern me, but a closer look seems to show that they are only visible due to the ravages of time and the elements.
The probable answer to why they were not found, despite the efforts of the many who have searched, lies in the very hidden nature of the location selected by those who made the maps. They only apply to that location, and are of no use without some kind of directions to the area from which the features of the stones could be seen and analyzed IMO.

Regards:Wayne
 

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somehiker said:
Do you believe the Tucson artifacts and the Stone Maps are related in some way ?

Regards:SH.
Click to expand...

Well, I am not sure that the dates work. If they were found in 1924 (the Tucson Artifacts), then there is a small chance that they are related. But it is almost too early in the timeline of this mans life.... almost. The connection that leaves me wondering is the composition of the lead and the source of that lead... and obviously the discovery story. If the lead did come from auto batteries of the period, then we need to consider a possible connection. Honestly, cactusjumper's ideas on the Tucson Artifacts (regarding "who") are in my mind worth re-reading.

The road along which they were discovered. Silverbell Rd. In 1924, do you know what this road was used for? I mean, where would it take one if one were to go anywhere using it? In both directions?
 

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