The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Part of something else I had stumbled upon in a different place out there, which I found to be interesting.
Not a campsite...no bare spots big enough to set up a tent. Just rocks.

View attachment 100_1465.bmp
 

Last edited:
Hal and Frank,

I have read a great deal about Father Kino and believe he had no personal wealth. He was one Jesuit who lived his vow of poverty, to the day he died.

Take care,

Joe
 

sgtfda said:
Joe I did not mean to imply Keno reaped the benefits from the mines but the Order did as a whole
Click to expand...

Frank,

I would agree with that. Non nobis means "not to us". Kino himself, for the most part, lived on the virtual edge of poverty.

Take care,

Joe
 

Last edited:
Ellie Baba said:
Hi All,

I'll address the Jesuit/Church connection down the road...

SANTFE or SANTA FE? ESCARDADIA or ESCARDA DIA?

"Ahora, estoy a las puertas de la realización del" empleo ", el salario diario de 50 dólares, mejor que trabajar las diferencias". Hsiu-dijo Long. Además de contratar a algunos compañeros de trabajo, sino que también dio algunas mujeres "empleo", es ahora sólo una escarda día en los campos a recoger envases de frutas, las mujeres tienen más de 10 personas.

Literal translation to English:

Now, I'm on the verge of carrying out the "employment", the daily wage of $ 50, better than working the differences ". Hsiu-Long said. Besides hire some coworkers, but also gave some women "employment", is now only a day weedingin the fields picking fruit containers, women have more than 10 people.

In the English language we do not describe a red house in the same way as the Spanish language does; casa rojo (house red). I have a black horse. En Espanol; Tengo un caballo negro. I have a dark horse. Tengo un caballo oscuro. We have the same rule that applies between escarda dia and day weeding as shown in the above agricultural statement. The Spanish language was used to provide the exact English translation; in this case, weeding day! It’s just that simple.

We must do our best to become educated treasure hunters. FYI: transliteration; from an information-theoretical point of view, systematic transliteration is a mapping from one system of writing into another, word by word, or ideally letter by letter. Most transliteration systems are one-to-one, so a reader who knows the system can reconstruct the original spelling. There is more to it than just this one technique.

More about Weeding Day

Most everyone in the southwest and the Latin American countries understand Maize and its importance as a major food crop. The farmers and maize growers are all quite familiar with its life cycle and growing season. The following information pertains to weed control.

Corn is sown towards the end of March in the southwest region which includes Arizona. Weeds compete with corn for light, nutrients, and water, especially during the first 3 to 5 weeks following emergence of the crop. It is important to control weeds in a corn field before they are 6 to 8 inches high, which is when they begin to impact corn yields.

We would need to set up camp and observe the area for “Sara sign” for three to five weeks.

It is very important to keep the language that you are working with in context with the exact phrase given to its English translation. The Perfil Map was not drawn, composed or made by a common Mexican. It was made by a gringo. When did common Mexicans measure distances in feet? Did they not use the vara? Have you ever noticed how a common Mexican would write north, south, east and west? Just like this; norte, sur, este y oeste. The Perfil Map has the directions written as E. TO W. TO N TO S under the arrow and 15000 figure, while the Superstition Mountain Historical Society copy we are able to see that other differences include:

The term E. TO W. TO N TO S is written E. TO W. TO W. TO S. So why is west identified with a “W” when it should have been written as an “O” (Oeste), if it had of been made by a common Mexican? The evidence speaks for itself.

You guys are making me work my tail off trying to get you on the right page. I hope that most of you will begin to realize why no one has solved any of these maps and found any cache or treasure. I am not as of yet in a position to recover anything other than placer or lode gold located on our mining claims. And, that’s another hard way to make a living. I suppose I could write a book about my exploration and mining experiences…but, that’s not as much fun.

Later,

Ellie B
Click to expand...

Yes we must do our best to become educated treasure hunters. At least you are trying, but you will have to come to terms with the fact that different languages do not translate word for word, or letter for letter. It is not that simple. You have to be fluent in both languages to understand this fact.

Most become aware of this when they try to translate a beautiful song from one language to another. Forget about it rhyming, it just sounds stupid, and makes no sense. A lot of times their are no similar words in the other language to fully understand what was written.

I will not even attempt to correct your translation, for it would just cause more confusions.

In my opinion, the Perfil map was made by a Mexican, and given to a Gringo, who made some additions.

Homar
 

"In my opinion, the Perfil map was made by a Mexican, and given to a Gringo, who made some additions."

Homar:

That is my understanding as well. Added his own notes, in his own language, as the perfil was explained to him.

Regards:SH.
 

cactusjumper said:
Hal and Frank,

I have read a great deal about Father Kino and believe he had no personal wealth. He was one Jesuit who lived his vow of poverty, to the day he died.

Take care,

Joe
Click to expand...

I know, I thought the same thing. But that just was not the case. Kino was funding the construction of missions with his own wealth. He was very successful in breeding cattle, but that was a long and slow process. Could that success have funded his construction projects? I don't believe so. I do agree with you that in his own life, he absolutely suffered the pains of poverty. But he had wealth, enough to raise suspicion among his peers. These are facts, recorded in his time.

BTW - I will return your book this week. Thank you so much! It just might be the only book about Waltz worth reading.
 

tom dunkle said:
Hello Ellie,

Edgar Cayce gave a reading on the lost dutchman mine that reminds me a good bit of what you seem to be saying:

"For these are held as sacred grounds by groups who have, from period to period, changed the very face of the earth or the surroundings, for the very purpose of being misleading to those who might attempt to discover or to desecrate (to certain groups) those lands". Could not have said it better.

When I read your comments it does seem the people you describe are capable of great deeds and great deception. Do you believe Cayce may have somehow hit on something? His statement could be applied to many different groups of people throughout history. However, no one has ever accomplished what this group has done.

I also wonder if the descendents of the people you claim to have done all of this still around? Most likely. And are they still active? I believe they are; think of them as a beehive minding their own business, but try and take the honey from the hive and you may face strong opposition if you haven't prepared to bring the proper equipment to remove the honey and pacify the bees.


Thanks,

Tom
Click to expand...

Take care,

Ellie B
 

coazon de oro said:
Yes we must do our best to become educated treasure hunters. At least you are trying, but you will have to come to terms with the fact that different languages do not translate word for word, or letter for letter. It is not that simple. You have to be fluent in both languages to understand this fact.

Most become aware of this when they try to translate a beautiful song from one language to another. Forget about it rhyming, it just sounds stupid, and makes no sense. A lot of times their are no similar words in the other language to fully understand what was written.

I will not even attempt to correct your translation, for it would just cause more confusions.

In my opinion, the Perfil map was made by a Mexican, and given to a Gringo, who made some additions.

Homar
Click to expand...

Hi Homar,

You are entitled to your opinion. I understand your point as related to the translation of a song. I am only interested in the translation of two words. I have Hispanic friends that I have known from my childhood and a great number who are known for their professional and historic uses of the Spanish language. I do not need to speak and understand fluent Spanish because I have used their resources. Do you know how to speak and understand the Guarani language? The Jesuits could and did and I have even had some of their language interpreted. I can't understand a single word in most cases...but, I don't have to.

The power of research and selecting the best professionals to be found will allow you to be successful and usually 100% correct in your evaluation. Professor Raymond White is an excellent example. The Superstitions are full of evil spirits, ghosts, apparitions and horrors that cannot be explained. For reasons well known to you and I, I find it hard to bring Hispanic friends into these mountains because of their superstitious beliefs. I have seen them turn as white as sheets and they never come back. Salvador will tell you a number of true stories that scared the living life right out of him. He thanks God for his Indian spirit guide. Without his presence Sal would not go near this place. You are aware of the evil eye I assume? Would you like to see one that has been carved into solid rock?

IMHO a common Mexican did not draw that map. I have brought many gringos into these mountains and they feel very uneasy in these places. There are some areas that I do not even go to and I am not superstitious. Anyone want to guess how these mountains really got there name?

Later,

Ellie B
 

Ellie Baba said:
Hi Homar,

You are entitled to your opinion. I understand your point as related to the translation of a song. I am only interested in the translation of two words. I have Hispanic friends that I have known from my childhood and a great number who are known for their professional and historic uses of the Spanish language. I do not need to speak and understand fluent Spanish because I have used their resources. Do you know how to speak and understand the Guarani language? The Jesuits could and did and I have even had some of their language interpreted. I can't understand a single word in most cases...but, I don't have to.

The power of research and selecting the best professionals to be found will allow you to be successful and usually 100% correct in your evaluation. Professor Raymond White is an excellent example. The Superstitions are full of evil spirits, ghosts, apparitions and horrors that cannot be explained. For reasons well known to you and I, I find it hard to bring Hispanic friends into these mountains because of their superstitious beliefs. I have seen them turn as white as sheets and they never come back. Salvador will tell you a number of true stories that scared the living life right out of him. He thanks God for his Indian spirit guide. Without his presence Sal would not go near this place. You are aware of the evil eye I assume? Would you like to see one that has been carved into solid rock?

IMHO a common Mexican did not draw that map. I have brought many gringos into these mountains and they feel very uneasy in these places. There are some areas that I do not even go to and I am not superstitious. Anyone want to guess how these mountains really got there name?

Later,

Ellie B
Click to expand...

Ghouls, spirits and skeletons.

IMG_0727_Jack_paneltech [1600x1200].jpg Nskeleton-rock-AC-rs.jpg

Lower left of center our Geologist Jack examines the geomorphology of the rock structure and any changes that may have been enhanced by man. Up and to the upper right and above Jack you just may be able to identify the skeletons all bunched together and a larger skeleton sits on the rock with his legs and feet hanging down to their left. He is about three times as large as the others. Imagine being camped near here late at night, the campfire flickering, the moon light slowly traversing the ground. Suddenly a scream is heard with shouts of, "Save me Mother of God" as the campground quickly empties. Later the camp guard tells them about his cry of hellish fright! "The skeletons were slowly moving towards me in the night and I could not believe my eyes. I will never come back to this place as long as I live", he exclaimed.

To be honest, Jack is also afraid to go back as he told us that he experienced the "heebie-jeebies" after seeing a gargoyle in the rocks above him. Most people that I show these photographs to can at least see the skeletons. Anyone out there want to see them in real life?

Ellie B
 

Last edited:
Ellie Baba said:
Hi Homar,

You are entitled to your opinion. I understand your point as related to the translation of a song. I am only interested in the translation of two words. I have Hispanic friends that I have known from my childhood and a great number who are known for their professional and historic uses of the Spanish language. I do not need to speak and understand fluent Spanish because I have used their resources. Do you know how to speak and understand the Guarani language? The Jesuits could and did and I have even had some of their language interpreted. I can't understand a single word in most cases...but, I don't have to.

The power of research and selecting the best professionals to be found will allow you to be successful and usually 100% correct in your evaluation. Professor Raymond White is an excellent example. The Superstitions are full of evil spirits, ghosts, apparitions and horrors that cannot be explained. For reasons well known to you and I, I find it hard to bring Hispanic friends into these mountains because of their superstitious beliefs. I have seen them turn as white as sheets and they never come back. Salvador will tell you a number of true stories that scared the living life right out of him. He thanks God for his Indian spirit guide. Without his presence Sal would not go near this place. You are aware of the evil eye I assume? Would you like to see one that has been carved into solid rock?

IMHO a common Mexican did not draw that map. I have brought many gringos into these mountains and they feel very uneasy in these places. There are some areas that I do not even go to and I am not superstitious. Anyone want to guess how these mountains really got there name?

Later,

Ellie B
Click to expand...

Howdy Ellie B,

I am only fluent in English, and Spanish, but my vocabulary is limited in both. I know a lot of made up words that we refer to as Spanish, but they are not in any Spanish dictionary. They are common words, and we communicate with them. Some educated Mexican will point that out, and tell us it is not correct Spanish, yet we are communicating with these common unrecognized words.

I told you that "escardadia" "may" be referring to the discards, because it may be one of these common unrecognized words.

You are also entitled to your own opinion, which is separating what was written into two words. However, your efforts for a correct evaluation have fallen short of 100% despite of your selection of professionals.

On your first translation of the words "escarda dia", you said it was weeding day, which is referring to a certain time of year. The time to weed your garden.

If you go back to your example of the use of the words "escarda dia", you will notice that they are going to harvest the fruits. Weeding day, and harvest day, are way apart from being a certain time of the year. They were not going to weed the fields, they were going to separate the fruit from the plants. So, "escarda dia" would be any time of the year that you are going to be separating anything.

I have heard many stories of the Superstitions, and am aware that there are grown men who are afraid of the unknown. I myself fear only our Lord, nothing else, I am not superstitious. Superstitions are only in ones head, and not something that can be carved in solid rock. I never make fun of others beliefs, and respect what ever rituals they do, but no feathers, bones, carved eyes, or anything will keep me from going where I want. If I should ever be so fortunate as to witness an apparition, I will follow it , and see where it takes me.

Homar
 

Springfield said:
Looks like a common tuff - a volcanic ash.
Click to expand...

Exactly.

I don't claim to know all that much about minerals and rocks, but the two samples look identical. If your sample was at one time a solid material, crushed and mixed into a cement like substance, then why is the darker mineral (suspended in your sample) distributed so much like the darker mineral in my common tuff?

I would think that during the crushing and then during the mixing, the mineral in your sample would have a much different pattern of distribution. Clustering, swirls... anything to suggest a re-mixing. Again, I know very little about rocks, but it seems like your plug might be natural. Forgive me if I am overlooking something obvious.

View attachment 795674
Your Sample - Overexposed

View attachment 795675
My Sample - Common Tuff
​

I only saved this as a example of what not to pack out of the Superstitions by the pound. Still, I have a bunch of it in my grill and it holds heat well. Who said learning was easy.:crybaby2:


Ellie,
I ran your photo through the ImageJ program to try and enhance what you are describing.

 

Last edited:
sgtfda said:
What better way to cover a hole than to use the materials the cave is made of. Otherwise it would stand out.
Click to expand...


Yes, but try to crush this material and remix it into something similar. It will NOT be the same material even if texture and color are similar.
 

markmar said:
Hal

The horse head picture is aerial , but I took it close ( about 1000 ft ) and in angle about 70 degrees from the ground , because is on a mountainside . The horse head fit in a 100 ft square and you can see it only in a specific season and at a specific hour .
All the maps are 2D ( except Perfil which is 3D and you must look from the ground ) include the stones trail map and have a " bird's eye perspective " . I believe the stone tablets was made in the middle of 19th century ( after Peralta and before Waltz , in the LDM history ).

Marius
Click to expand...

markmar
How, in your mind, would that have been possible in the mid 19th century?
 

You must log in or register to reply here.

The Wagoner Lost Ledge

⬅️ Previous Thread

Legend of the Stone Maps

Next Thread ➡️

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)

Latest Discussions

Back
Top