The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

[sgtfda]

Now there's a thought. Have any of you stoners traveled up the creek looking for other things? Perhaps the dotted trail on the stones is a combo of creek and land trails and the X's mark burial locations

 

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[Ellie Baba]

Why Washes Were Not Used as Trails

EB I should have said I've seen the area where it is said they were found.
Why the Creek? Im sure during your desert travels you spent time driving up creeks and washes. They are the roads. Why would Queen Creek not have been used as a road back then. Clear and easy path through the desert.

I had just written this article to explain my answer to the above question.

Using 4X4’s and ATV’s is a good way to get from one point to another by using the many desert washes we call sandy freeways. However, back when men rode horses and relied on pack animals sandy washes were commonly avoided for a number of reasons. If you had a choice of hiking on an established animal trail or hiking up a sandy wash which would you prefer? I’ll always choose the trail over the wash.

The early European explorers typically followed the already existing paths used by the indigenous cultures living along these established trails. These explorers and pioneers soon discovered why the dry wash beds were not used as permanent trails; to put it simply, they were not permanent. Flash flooding was a common occurrence in the desert even when a cloud could not be found in the sky. Never make camp or park an un-attended vehicle in a wash as a flash flood can strike without warning and can destroy everything in its path including any humans unfortunate not to move out of the way.

Most trails that were blazed by the early fur trappers followed major rivers and streams to keep within a short and safe distance of the beaver habitats. These trails were designed to follow the bank of the waterway that afforded the easiest and longest trail route available to avoid crossing the waterway when high water conditions were present. The trappers learned how to protect and preserve their equipment so as to guarantee a successful trapping season. Their horses and pack mules were number one on the list of priorities for these animals could make a difference between life and death. Loose a pack animal that carries your provisions or trapping gear, your trapping season could turn out to be a complete failure.

When riding a horse you can direct him where to go and control his speed. Many riders today never consider the horse’s mental or physical condition when riding in the open desert. The fur trappers, cowboys, horse soldiers, pony express riders, stagecoach operators, freight wagon teamsters, loggers, miners and Native American Indian horse owners were very aware of this relationship between a man and their horse(s), mules and oxen.

Water and forage could be scarce, the temperature could be warm to very hot and conditions of the trail could be dangerous and quite severe. Guides were always used by the Spanish to travel these trails to places where they intended to explore and yes, these trails crossed many washes and in some rare cases they followed a wash now or then when assured that no rain was falling nearby or far upstream. Simply riding or running horses up a grade in a sandy wash would soon ware them out and they would become useless if pushed too far. As I had stated earlier; have you ever hiked up a sandy wash (in 110° heat for 3 hours straight)? Once you have you will soon get back on the trail for it is far easier to walk on the trail and so much faster too.

Trails were typically blazed along the top of ridges to avoid the brush and washes. Treasure signs and or symbols were never placed anywhere near a wash or a low lying area that could have been flooded. Trail signs and monuments were meant to be permanent, to last throughout all of time if need be.


Hope this answers your question and have a great next week!

Ellie B

 

[sgtfda]

Thank you EB. I must admit I spend most of my time traveling in washes while prospecting. No other way to travel into those areas.

 

[somehiker]

SH

You wrote " And it's said there was a carving of an Indian Head and two hearts somewhere there as well..... "

I post a part of Perfil map picture which I took in GE . In the yellow circle is the Indian head or " ESCARDADIA " and just to the left is the " HOYO " which has an heart shape . To the left of this heart is another same heart but can't seen in this picture .
The ground outline below the head is the same with the line in Perfil map .

View attachment 794567

Marius

Marius:

That which I wrote and you quoted came from sources who were close to Travis Tumlinson.
It relates to the area where the Stone Maps were discovered. Not to the area shown in the Perfil Mapa, which is somewhere within the range.
And trying to relate any of the various treasure maps to terrain features seen on Google Earth is an exercise in futility.
Likewise, trying to draw comparisons between the Stone Maps and any of the others may be hazardous to your mental well being.
Can you translate the word "ESCARDADIA" for us ? What would be seen at that location ? Is it in your G/E "picture" ?
We all know that "HOYO" means a hole in the ground...in Spanish, but how would you know whether it's a mine or just a hole ?

Regards:SH.

 

[Hal Croves]

Ellie,
Your explanations are becoming increasingly easier to follow. I agree with most of what you wrote in
that last post except that washes were followed by early explorers/prospectors. Perhaps not for travel, but following color to the source. Sgtda is doing exactly what the early Mexican explorers did when they reached an area with potential. I do this myself following washes that intersect my area. It is exhausting and time consuming. But can be rewarding... washes are always changing.

One thing about the discovery site. It was a construction area and the holes that are visible seem to be along the bank. They might simply be test holes for the construction of the bridge foundation. Just a thought.

 

[Not Peralta]

Hal my eyes don't lie. What I find hard to believe is the story on how the stones were found. I've seen the area and its the last place they would have been buried. The only way is if they were dumped there by someone fleeing the mountains using the creek as a reference.

yes, im glad to see some one paying attention to the comments on my thread that the stones were not burried but laying on the ground, naturally covered up over time. np

 

[Not Peralta]

Might pay to have a look at whats above and below.
And there might be another stone somewhere, because while Tumlinson had the stones, he didn't have the answers necessary to get to the end.

There may be an extra stone. Look at my last posting on my thread. thx, np

 

[somehiker]

"One thing about the discovery site. It was a construction area and the holes that are visible seem to be along the bank. They might simply be test holes for the construction of the bridge foundation. Just a thought."

Hal:

Highly unlikely. Test holes are done at the site of proposed construction , not 250-300 yards away.
Determination of soil conditions and underlying geological formations is done by drilling rig, with samples tested in the lab.
For the bridge support structure, drilling to bedrock would have been done in the area where the piers would be set.
For the grade and roadbed only soil samples would be required for compaction testing.
No testing would have been done in the area to the east of the highway for construction purposes.
If you suspect that there was ongoing construction of the bridge in 1948-49, see if you can find out the start-finish dates.
Travis was on his way back home after spending Christmas with his relatives in Texas in 1948, when he stopped at the bridge for the first time.
The place where he described finding the second stone cannot be seen by anyone at the bridge, or even from the road.

Regards:SH.

 

[Ellie Baba]

Weeding day = A time of year

Marius:

That which I wrote and you quoted came from sources who were close to Travis Tumlinson.
It relates to the area where the Stone Maps were discovered. Not to the area shown in the Perfil Mapa, which is somewhere within the range.
And trying to relate any of the various treasure maps to terrain features seen on Google Earth is an exercise in futility.
Likewise, trying to draw comparisons between the Stone Maps and any of the others may be hazardous to your mental well being.
Can you translate the word "ESCARDADIA" for us ? What would be seen at that location ? Is it in your G/E "picture" ?
We all know that "HOYO" means a hole in the ground...in Spanish, but how would you know whether it's a mine or just a hole ?

Regards:SH.

Escarda dia or ESCARDA DIA translated from Spanish means "weeding day" which is referring to a certain time of the year. You must get out your garden tools and weed the garden or they will soon take over the crop. It doesn't make any sense though does it? The term is specifying a time period that occurs every year. It is a major clue that is used to solve this map.

By the way the words SANTAFE were also presented in the same manner as ESCARDADIA. Recognize the pattern; this map is different from the others and I would bet my money that this map belongs to the same family as the Stone Maps.

Later,

Ellie B

 

[Ellie Baba]

Ellie,
Your explanations are becoming increasingly easier to follow. I agree with most of what you wrote in that last post except that washes were followed by early explorers/prospectors. Perhaps not for travel, but following color to the source. Sgtda is doing exactly what the early Mexican explorers did when they reached an area with potential. I do this myself following washes that intersect my area. It is exhausting and time consuming. But can be rewarding... washes are always changing.

One thing about the discovery site. It was a construction area and the holes that are visible seem to be along the bank. They might simply be test holes for the construction of the bridge foundation. Just a thought.

Hal,

Not to pick at hairs. He didn't mention that he was using the washes for prospecting until after the article was posted. He was making a reference that the wash was a trail.

I too have an exploration company and like yourself understand the profession of following a trail of fines and nuggets upstream until hopefully identifying a lode where the Au originated. My article was focused on the definition of trails and washes, not prospecting. Context...did I miss something?

Let me know when you are ready to take a 4X4 trip into history.

Ellie B

 

[coazon de oro]

SH

You wrote " And it's said there was a carving of an Indian Head and two hearts somewhere there as well..... "

I post a part of Perfil map picture which I took in GE . In the yellow circle is the Indian head or " ESCARDADIA " and just to the left is the " HOYO " which has an heart shape . To the left of this heart is another same heart but can't seen in this picture .
The ground outline below the head is the same with the line in Perfil map .

View attachment 794567

Marius

Escardar means to separate the good from the bad, such as separating the gold from the worthless rock. Escardadia, may be referring to the tailings.

Homar

 

[somehiker]

Escarda dia or ESCARDA DIA translated from Spanish means "weeding day" which is referring to a certain time of the year. You must get out your garden tools and weed the garden or they will soon take over the crop. It doesn't make any sense though does it? The term is specifying a time period that occurs every year. It is a major clue that is used to solve this map.

Later,

Ellie B

So, if it's a major clue, what date would that be ?
A certain day, sorta like Independence Day ? Or do you have to hang around for a while and look at a certain spot to see "something".
Most of the places I have lived and travelled to, the weeds never stopped growing except when it dropped below freezing. To cut them one day a year wouldn't make much difference, so I don't think anyone ever invented a "weed day". Seems a stretch to associate it to any time frame, strictly by literal translation as you have done.
If I was working on the "perfil map", I'd probably be looking for something different....and somewhere else.


Regards:SH.

 

[Ellie Baba]

Escardar - to weed

Escardar means to separate the good from the bad, such as separating the gold from the worthless rock. Escardadia, may be referring to the tailings.

Homar

Homar,

Where did you find that translation?

escardar
transitive verb 1. to weed



escardar [es-car-dar’] article & verb transitive
2. To weed cornfields.

The meaning changes when you add the word "DIA", ESCARDA DIA





Just curious,

EB

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Hal Croves,

The section of road where the stone maps were said to have been found was a two lane road in the late 1940's, early 1950's. Today it is a four lane divided highway about three and a half times the right of way of the old highway. An old dutch hunter, Al Reser took me down to where he said the stone maps were found before the four lane hiway was built. Today that old site is gone, part of the new highway and right of way. Al Reser got his location from Clarence Mitchell and later from a man named Charlie Miller whom Al said was present at the Superstition Mt. Service Station in Apache Junction when Travis Tumlinson brought the stones in and cleaned them off. The Superstition Mt. Shell Service station was Cal Morse's gas station in the 1930's and is the same building where Dirtwater Springs Restaurant is today in Apache Junction. It would seem from Al's account, the place where the original stone maps were discovered is now destroyed and part of the new hiway. I don't know where any later stones or maps may have been located in the area. For what it's worth, that is what Al told and showed me.

Matthew K. Roberts

 

[somehiker]

Escardar means to separate the good from the bad, such as separating the gold from the worthless rock. Escardadia, may be referring to the tailings.

Homar

Bingo.....
How bout looking for a tailings pile or run (something out in the daylight), shaped like a weed hook.
Or even a scraping, where all the vegetation has been removed.

Regards:SH.

 

[sgtfda]

I use washes both to get to claim locations and after arrival look for prospecting spots. In many areas the only way in. The washes sit down below ground level. If you want to travel without bring seen that's the way I would do it. You can be spotted traveling a ridge line from many miles away

 

[Ellie Baba]

So, if it's a major clue, what date would that be ?
A certain day, sorta like Independence Day ? Or do you have to hang around for a while and look at a certain spot to see "something".
Most of the places I have lived and travelled to, the weeds never stopped growing except when it dropped below freezing. To cut them one day a year wouldn't make much difference, so I don't think anyone ever invented a "weed day". Seems a stretch to associate it to any time frame, strictly by literal translation as you have done.
If I was working on the "perfil map", I'd probably be looking for something different....and somewhere else.


Regards:SH.

You don't farm do you? Of course it means a specific time of the year and yes you will have to set up camp and watch the shadow signs for a month or two. These folks did not make it easy and you have to follow their rule book. There is no other way, so if you want to find the cache/treasure you will have to do it there way. I think its a work of genius myself...you want it bad enough then you wont mind setting up camp. The map also tells you what time of the day to look and where to set up camp. Your choice.

You have to have faith, trust and watch out for death traps (and the four legged kind).

Ellie B

 

[somehiker]

Hal Croves,

The section of road where the stone maps were said to have been found was a two lane road in the late 1940's, early 1950's. Today it is a four lane divided highway about three and a half times the right of way of the old highway. An old dutch hunter, Al Reser took me down to where he said the stone maps were found before the four lane hiway was built. Today that old site is gone, part of the new highway and right of way. Al Reser got his location from Clarence Mitchell and later from a man named Charlie Miller whom Al said was present at the Superstition Mt. Service Station in Apache Junction when Travis Tumlinson brought the stones in and cleaned them off. The Superstition Mt. Shell Service station was Cal Morse's gas station in the 1930's and is the same building where Dirtwater Springs Restaurant is today in Apache Junction. It would seem from Al's account, the place where the original stone maps were discovered is now destroyed and part of the new hiway. I don't know where any later stones or maps may have been located in the area. For what it's worth, that is what Al told and showed me.

Matthew K. Roberts

Jim Hatt told me pretty much the same thing, also having been out to the site with Al Reser. He also thought the bridge on El Camino Viejo was also a likely candidate, having been shown a spot near there by another person who he thought might know...can't remember who he said it was though.
That's when I decided to have a look around myself. I've been under the bridges, and can tell that the one to the west side is newer than the other, but both are more recent than 1948. Both on site examination as well as aerial and sat views show the original road blending smoothly into the new westbound lanes close to the place where the original road crossed. Anything relevant within about 200' on the west side of the original two lane, would have been erased by the newer eastbound lanes, though.
Regardless of the present site condition, the spot does fit Tumlinson's description. He could have pulled off the road there, could have gone down to the creek for water at that location, could have gone through a hole in the fence there,or under it like you can now, and would have been able to just make out the tip of the Needle from that point.
You can't see any part of the needle from the opposite side, which is much lower. The small hill at the top of the embankment also had at least one large mature tree (mesquite or paloverde) growing on it when I was there, and was the only small hill anywhere along the top.
He would also have attained a better view by climbing to the top, so I can't see any flaws in the story and unless someone can come up with a better scenario, based on documentation more convincing than what Greg and Gary have collected, I will continue to hold this opinion.

This photo was taken in 1966.
The small hill had trees on it then.
They had grown a bit by 2010.

View attachment QC 1966.bmp


Regards:SH.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal my eyes don't lie. What I find hard to believe is the story on how the stones were found. I've seen the area and its the last place they would have been buried. The only way is if they were dumped there by someone fleeing the mountains using the creek as a reference.

That is not "the only way". That they were dumped, more like placed there I do not disagree. But it did not have to be while fleeing. You are forgetting the very obvious chance that they were intentionally placed, perhaps in modern times.

Your argument is solid. "It is the last place they would have been buried".

 

[Hal Croves]

"One thing about the discovery site. It was a construction area and the holes that are visible seem to be along the bank. They might simply be test holes for the construction of the bridge foundation. Just a thought."

Hal:

If you suspect that there was ongoing construction of the bridge in 1948-49, see if you can find out the start-finish dates.
Travis was on his way back home after spending Christmas with his relatives in Texas in 1948, when he stopped at the bridge.

Regards:SH.[/QUOTE

I will give it a try and post the results.
I do want to ask about the photo of the cave. Looking at the "plug", I see rock that was fractured and filled with something that looks like flow material. How can this be man made? You have examined the plug. Are there any tool marks or hand/finger prints? Are you sure that it is not a work of nature?

What would you do if you learned that the stones were a modern work? Would it matter?