The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Hal

Modern times. Right next to the road. How lazy. At least a effort should have been made to place them in a special place. Would have made it so much more interesting and a little more believable. One pile of bull after another. I remember calling the museum and asking if the had the original stones on display. Oh yes! Only to find copies. Like a trip to the side show to see the crab people. Taken again. Don't get me wrong I find you all very interesting and learn from you. Stoners all and a great group at that. I hope you all find something great at the end of the trail.
Wayne I'm impressed with your finds and the work you put into it. Day after day packing in and out leaving no stone unturned. Even if that stone is at the top of a fractured mountain. He's one tough old goat. You wore me out and I only did it one time.
 

Frank:
Thanks for the vote and complement. But your enthusiasm and stamina impressed me as well.Our friend and partner may have been off a bit, but he had already done his share the day before, when we did the whole circle tour.
Out there, as well as in here, it's a good idea to bring lots of ammo. Keeps the critters and bushwhackers at bay, especially when you get close enough to see their tracks and droppings. That fractured mountain was a perfect place to finish up what must have been a mission of faith for the people involved, although clearly an attempt to deceive and mislead everyone else. But it's beginning to look like what they built, like a house of cards, has begun to tumble down. I want to get there before it does.

Hal:
The originals were not modern, but all the copies are.
Some are better than others, especially the first set.
However even those are different from the originals.
Of that I am certain. So I don't expect anyone to be able to prove otherwise.
I thought the plug might be natural, after my first visit. Confirmed that it wasn't on my second.
Can't say anything else, other than I do not intend to disturb the site in any way.
I did get a few more photos though.

Regards:SH.
 

Homar,

Where did you find that translation?

escardar
transitive verb 1. to weed



escardar [es-car-dar’] article & verb transitive
2. To weed cornfields.

The meaning changes when you add the word "DIA", ESCARDA DIA





Just curious,

EB

On Wordreference.com,
[h=3]escardar conjugar ⇒[/h]
  • tr. Quitar o arrancar las hierbas nocivas de los sembrados:
    escardamos para evitar que se empobrezca la tierra.
  • Separar y apartar lo malo de lo bueno:
    escardaron el equipo y no nos seleccionaron.

If you look for the definition of weed out, you will find that it also refers to separating the bad from the good.

Before you weed a garden, the bad weeds are together with the good plants. After "escardar", the pulled, cut, or piled weeds could be the "escardadia". After one separates the wheat from the chaff, the chaff could be the "escardadia". The Perfil map was made by a common Mexican to a gold mine. You can be sure he was referring to tailings, and not weeds. A lot of made up words never make it to the dictionary.

The word "escardadia" is one word so it can not be weeding day, it is also below the "hoyo" where tailings would be. Yes the word "hoyo" was another common mistake by a common man.

Why would you try to use a map made by a common Mexican, to point out something in a map you believe to be of Jesuit origin? Just currious.

Homar
 

There have been some interesting ideas brought forward in the last couple of days about tailings.
Homar's thoughts here, and Ashton's ideas at DUSA.
Got me thinking about how the waste from an arrastre could be used in similar or other ways.
Sifted through a wire mesh and mixed with water, it would make a fine plaster.
With other ingredients, such as cooked lime, you could make cement. In fact an arrastre could be built and used not only for grinding limestone, but also as a cement mixer, so long as it was close enough to the project.

Regards:SH.
 

There have been some interesting ideas brought forward in the last couple of days about tailings.
Homar's thoughts here, and Ashton's ideas at DUSA.
Got me thinking about how the waste from an arrastre could be used in similar or other ways.
Sifted through a wire mesh and mixed with water, it would make a fine plaster.
With other ingredients, such as cooked lime, you could make cement. In fact an arrastre could be built and used not only for grinding limestone, but also as a cement mixer, so long as it was close enough to the project.

Regards:SH.

Another unverified treasure hunters' allegation is that crushed caliche rehydrated with water and antelope blood was the most weather resistant and undetectable mixture used to mortar voids in native rock and stucco hand-stacked walls, etc. I assume the blood was used primarily as a coloring agent, but I've also heard that it possesses specific qualities that enhance the weather resistance. I wonder if it's too late to bring in the bloodhounds?
 

Hal:
The originals were not modern, but all the copies are.
This sounds as if you have definitive proof as to their date of fabrication. Is that base on anything more than your theory?

Some are better than others, especially the first set.
However even those are different from the originals.
Of that I am certain. So I don't expect anyone to be able to prove otherwise.

I have only seen what I was told were the originals. It would not be that difficult to ID the copies once you understand the duplication process. Many people do not know that weight and size are used to sniff out a forgery. When an item is cast for duplication, the resulting positive (once cast) is up to xx% smaller than the original. Many bronze copies are discovered this way. Depending on the casting material, the true weight is also typically off.

I thought the plug might be natural, after my first visit. Confirmed that it wasn't on my second.
Can't say anything else, other than I do not intend to disturb the site in any way.
I did get a few more photos though.

somehiker, I am impressed with what you have shared and what it is that you are trying to achieve. As far as your theory being the correct one, who knows. It might be if they are not modern. I was hoping for an explanation about the fractured rock in the plug, however I understand if you do not wish to share anything more. Perhaps you could simply tell us how to confirm a similar find. I mean, if I were to stumble upon a man made plug, by what means would I tell that it was not natural... other than tool marks or hand/finger prints? Looking at your photograph, the mix seems to cover a much larger area than what I see as the actual opening. Is this really part of the concealment process?

I believe that Father Kino may have introduced this method of concealment to the natives in the form of a natural "gesso". But I have no proof other than circumstantial. It would be great to have a known sample analyzed by a professional lab. The mixture requires a substantial amount of water, which obviously can be an issue in the Superstitions.
 

Last edited:
Hal

Modern times. Right next to the road. How lazy. At least a effort should have been made to place them in a special place. Would have made it so much more interesting and a little more believable.
I don't think that the person who placed the stones was at all lazy. This will become clear in time. Perhaps he knew something about human nature and put the stones in a place where he knew they would be found without much effort. And that is what it took to find the stones. Not much effort. Placing them next to a "special place" would have been problematic because of the association one would make with the discovery site. The artist would not have mislead people in that way (I believe). He was preserving history. Perhaps even preserving a secret for a future generation.

Look at what has happened at the actual site. Several construction projects over the years and no one but Tumlinson managed to notice a brick like object protruding from the earth? The stone maps are a cypher, planted in an obvious location for someone at some point in time to discover. An encrypted time capsule if you like, leading to specific locations in and around the SWA.

I should say at this point that I believe that a modern date does not rule out the chance that the stones do lead to something. They do. I believe it anyway. But access to these "somethings" is difficult and regulated and even dangerous. Remember, one site in my Priest Stone overlay was identified not by me, but by an official with TNF. That is a fact. Another location comes very close to that described in the legend of the Dutchman. The artist was familiar with the Superstitions. Familiar with its many sites once inhabited by native and early European people.

One pile of bull after another. I remember calling the museum and asking if the had the original stones on display. Oh yes! Only to find copies. Like a trip to the side show to see the crab people. Taken again. Don't get me wrong I find you all very interesting and learn from you. Stoners all and a great group at that. I hope you all find something great at the end of the trail.
That is an unfortunate experience and all I can say is that it is not a typical one, to me. They are good, honest people and confusion sometimes does happen.
 

Last edited:
Not to pick at hairs. He didn't mention that he was using the washes for prospecting until after the article was posted. He was making a reference that the wash was a trail.

I too have an exploration company and like yourself understand the profession of following a trail of fines and nuggets upstream until hopefully identifying a lode where the Au originated. My article was focused on the definition of trails and washes, not prospecting.
Context...did I miss something?

No, you are correct.

Let me know when you are ready to take a 4X4 trip into history.
I will be back in the fall and am looking forward to it.
 

Hal Croves,

The section of road where the stone maps were said to have been found was a two lane road in the late 1940's, early 1950's. Today it is a four lane divided highway about three and a half times the right of way of the old highway. An old dutch hunter, Al Reser took me down to where he said the stone maps were found before the four lane hiway was built. Today that old site is gone, part of the new highway and right of way. Al Reser got his location from Clarence Mitchell and later from a man named Charlie Miller whom Al said was present at the Superstition Mt. Service Station in Apache Junction when Travis Tumlinson brought the stones in and cleaned them off. The Superstition Mt. Shell Service station was Cal Morse's gas station in the 1930's and is the same building where Dirtwater Springs Restaurant is today in Apache Junction. It would seem from Al's account, the place where the original stone maps were discovered is now destroyed and part of the new hiway. I don't know where any later stones or maps may have been located in the area. For what it's worth, that is what Al told and showed me.


Matthew K. Roberts

Thank you Matthew for posting that story. Any chance of you posting a marked image of exactly where you feel the stones were found? Do you believe that somehikers image of the location area is accurate? Welcome to treasurenet!
 

Last edited:
.....

You need to find someone with a ground penetrating unit that can identify caverns, tunnels or similar under ground anomalies.

Ellie B

Having some experience with these, I can say, "Caveat emptor, your results may vary". GPR's were developed to be able to certify flat concrete construction projects. Typically, the devices are used to detect rebar spacing and depth in concrete roads and building pads. They work well for this. Later, geotechs attempted to use them for detecting subsurface anomalies for treasure hunters, archaeologists, etc. If the search area is reasonably level and uniform, significant shallow anomalies are detectable, although an experienced operator should be running the machine.

If the terrain is irregular, sloping, rocky, brushy, etc., you're wasting your money, IMO. Admittedly, the units have been improved electronically, software-wise, and have been mounted on fair sized, higher clearance wheels, but the further away from 'optimum conditions' your search area is, the less chance your test results will help you. Again - an experienced operator is a critical factor.

That said, I'm sure the geotech equipment suppliers will be happy to apply a slick sell job on you to lease the 'new improved' models. If you've got money to burn - go for it. Same goes for the thermal imaging equipment. Sounds great, but usually is a costly boondoggle. If there was a silver bullet available, we'd probably all own one. Good luck.
 

Thank you Matthew for posting that story. Any chance of you posting a marked image of exactly where you feel the stones were found? Do you believe that somehikers image of the location area is accurate? Welcome to treasurenet!

For those of you who enjoy Matthew's posts, as I do, it's a good idea to save them in some manner. His history on Internet sites is replete with wholesale deletions and even deleting entire topics which he was the author of. It's a lot like what recently took place over on DUSA.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo
 

Who owns the land near the bridge? Did the landowner ever attempt to recover items removed that were reported found there?
 

Santafe or Santa fe escardadia or escarda dia

On Wordreference.com,
escardar conjugar ⇒


  • tr. Quitar o arrancar las hierbas nocivas de los sembrados:
    escardamos para evitar que se empobrezca la tierra.
  • Separar y apartar lo malo de lo bueno:
    escardaron el equipo y no nos seleccionaron.

If you look for the definition of weed out, you will find that it also refers to separating the bad from the good.

Before you weed a garden, the bad weeds are together with the good plants. After "escardar", the pulled, cut, or piled weeds could be the "escardadia". After one separates the wheat from the chaff, the chaff could be the "escardadia". The Perfil map was made by a common Mexican to a gold mine. You can be sure he was referring to tailings, and not weeds. A lot of made up words never make it to the dictionary.

The word "escardadia" is one word so it can not be weeding day, it is also below the "hoyo" where tailings would be. Yes the word "hoyo" was another common mistake by a common man.

Why would you try to use a map made by a common Mexican, to point out something in a map you believe to be of Jesuit origin? Just currious.

Homar

Hi All,

I'll address the Jesuit/Church connection down the road...

SANTFE or SANTA FE? ESCARDADIA or ESCARDA DIA?

"Ahora, estoy a las puertas de la realización del" empleo ", el salario diario de 50 dólares, mejor que trabajar las diferencias". Hsiu-dijo Long. Además de contratar a algunos compañeros de trabajo, sino que también dio algunas mujeres "empleo", es ahora sólo una escarda día en los campos a recoger envases de frutas, las mujeres tienen más de 10 personas.

Literal translation to English:

Now, I'm on the verge of carrying out the "employment", the daily wage of $ 50, better than working the differences ". Hsiu-Long said. Besides hire some coworkers, but also gave some women "employment", is now only a day weedingin the fields picking fruit containers, women have more than 10 people.

In the English language we do not describe a red house in the same way as the Spanish language does; casa rojo (house red). I have a black horse. En Espanol; Tengo un caballo negro. I have a dark horse. Tengo un caballo oscuro. We have the same rule that applies between escarda dia and day weeding as shown in the above agricultural statement. The Spanish language was used to provide the exact English translation; in this case, weeding day! It’s just that simple.

We must do our best to become educated treasure hunters. FYI: transliteration; from an information-theoretical point of view, systematic transliteration is a mapping from one system of writing into another, word by word, or ideally letter by letter. Most transliteration systems are one-to-one, so a reader who knows the system can reconstruct the original spelling. There is more to it than just this one technique.

More about Weeding Day

Most everyone in the southwest and the Latin American countries understand Maize and its importance as a major food crop. The farmers and maize growers are all quite familiar with its life cycle and growing season. The following information pertains to weed control.

Corn is sown towards the end of March in the southwest region which includes Arizona. Weeds compete with corn for light, nutrients, and water, especially during the first 3 to 5 weeks following emergence of the crop. It is important to control weeds in a corn field before they are 6 to 8 inches high, which is when they begin to impact corn yields.

We would need to set up camp and observe the area for “Sara sign” for three to five weeks.

It is very important to keep the language that you are working with in context with the exact phrase given to its English translation. The Perfil Map was not drawn, composed or made by a common Mexican. It was made by a gringo. When did common Mexicans measure distances in feet? Did they not use the vara? Have you ever noticed how a common Mexican would write north, south, east and west? Just like this; norte, sur, este y oeste. The Perfil Map has the directions written as E. TO W. TO N TO S under the arrow and 15000 figure, while the Superstition Mountain Historical Society copy we are able to see that other differences include:

The term E. TO W. TO N TO S is written E. TO W. TO W. TO S. So why is west identified with a “W” when it should have been written as an “O” (Oeste), if it had of been made by a common Mexican? The evidence speaks for itself.

You guys are making me work my tail off trying to get you on the right page. I hope that most of you will begin to realize why no one has solved any of these maps and found any cache or treasure. I am not as of yet in a position to recover anything other than placer or lode gold located on our mining claims. And, that’s another hard way to make a living. I suppose I could write a book about my exploration and mining experiences…but, that’s not as much fun.

Later,

Ellie B
 

Last edited:
Another unverified treasure hunters' allegation is that crushed caliche rehydrated with water and antelope blood was the most weather resistant and undetectable mixture used to mortar voids in native rock and stucco hand-stacked walls, etc. I assume the blood was used primarily as a coloring agent, but I've also heard that it possesses specific qualities that enhance the weather resistance. I wonder if it's too late to bring in the bloodhounds?

The ancient Romans more or less invented concrete. Causeways, aqueducts, buildings of all kinds and even statues were constructed with the stuff.
They were the ones who found (probably by accident) that horse blood added to the mix resulted in greater hardness and weather resistance.
I mentioned it in a thread a long time ago. Can't remember if colour was also affected by adding blood, but it's possible.
I have a sample,chipped from something I was suspicious of at one of the places I posted a photo of. It looked to have been painted, but the colour didn't quite match the rest of the rock surrounding it. The material was also of a different consistency and much softer. As soon as the batteries in the camera re-charge, I will take a couple of photos and post them.

Regards:SH.
 

many of the southwest people...including the Maya used a form of concrete...mud, lime an sea shells. there is a theory that the Maya deforested the land to create that beautiful white stucco...{fires to cook the lime}

blood was mixed with mud to create a durable floor...yes, the blood turned the mud red....
 

Hello Ellie,

Edgar Cayce gave a reading on the lost dutchman mine that reminds me a good bit of what you seem to be saying:

"For these are held as sacred grounds by groups who have, from period to period, changed the very face of the earth or the surroundings, for the very purpose of being misleading to those who might attempt to discover or to desecrate (to certain groups) those lands".

When I read your comments it does seem the people you describe are capable of great deeds and great deception. Do you believe Cayce may have somehow hit on something?

I also wonder if the descendents of the people you claim to have done all of this still around? And are they still active?


Thanks,

Tom
 

Last edited:
Who owns the land near the bridge? Did the landowner ever attempt to recover items removed that were reported found there?

Hello Sgtfda
I believe that's State Trust Land, and your suppost to request a permit to enter, but evertbody enters them all over the State all the time.
FEMF

P.S. Get a hunting Lic., you can enter them anytime.
 

Last edited:
.... I have a sample,chipped from something I was suspicious of at one of the places I posted a photo of. It looked to have been painted, but the colour didn't quite match the rest of the rock surrounding it. The material was also of a different consistency and much softer. As soon as the batteries in the camera re-charge, I will take a couple of photos and post them.

Regards:SH

That would be interesting to see. I would also like to see a close-up of the interface between your plug and its surrounding country rock.
 

The horse's tongue , below the Indian head , looks like a " weed hook " .

View attachment 795069

Marius[/QUOTE

Your picture is an aerial photograph. Are you suggesting that the stone map cipher is read from above... a bird's eye perspective? When do you believe they were made?
Thanks!



Jumping back to Father Kino for a moment...
Any idea where Kino would have amassed his wealth, other than cattle?

"Kino had an unusual amount of wealth for his vocation, which he used primarily to fund his missionary activities. His contemporaries reported on his wealth with suspicion."

Lopez, George. Non Nobis: The Servants of Bernard. Oxford University Press, Oxford, UK: 1964


 

Last edited:

Top Member Reactions

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top