The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

[peralta]

Hal

You wrote " I am still trying to remember where I read the story of the stones being purchased from a construction worker "

Maybe at superstitionmountaintomkollenborn.blogspot.com/2009/07/peralta-stone-maps-part-1.html ( copy/paste ) .

Marius

Hello Marius ,hope your doing well.
Tom

 

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[somehiker]

Homar:

I first posted photos of the site here....Stone Map Trilogy after visiting the location in Oct 2009.
This is the first rendition of what I found, based on what I recalled from that hike. I showed the small hill, the only rise in the otherwise flat terrain, with an arrow.
I didn't think it necessary at the time, to label it as the place where Tumlinson had found them, since most on that website were familiar with the Tumlinson's version of events.
I used the gps readings to create the more accurate map in 2011. I had suspected that the holes had been dug at points matching the 5 dots at the upper left of the Horse Map, that the extended diagonal of the "R" in "RIO" may have indicated the orientation and direction of flow of Queen Creek, and that the two lines which wrapped around the edge of the H/P Stone was the trail to and from the Horse. As you say though, my understanding evolves as I make new finds in the field and through additional research.

First versions 2010:



View attachment Tumlinson 2.bmp

Hal:
Yes, I do believe the stones to be much older. If I had wanted to hide something I did not wish to have confiscated, I would consider burying it a couple of feet down, and marking the location somehow. That would be prudent under the circumstances, rather than careless. I doubt they imagined a power shovel would be digging in the same place 100 or more years later.

Path down to QC with the hill to the left:

View attachment Tumlinson's Hill.bmp

Regards:SH

version 2:

 

[markmar]

Hello Tom

I am well and I wish the same to you .

Marius

 

[Hal Croves]

markmar,
Yes, that is one source of the story. But there is another printed version that I am going nuts trying to re-find. Thank you!

somehiker,
I hope that you don't mind me questioning your belief about the stones. So, from what I understand, the Horse Stone is a map that tells the locations of its own (and the other stones) burial? That just seems illogical. Burying your own locator map with the things to be located. But, if it were intentionally buried as a locator map and was accedentially "dug up" by power shovel, that means that its original position was disturbed, making the horse stone impossible to use as point of reference. How would anyone know where to measure from? What we now know is that the new bridge was most likely completed when Tumlinson arrived in 1948 or 1949. There was much activity at that site and still no one noticed the protruding stone but Tumlinson? It just seems to be problematic.

Could you tell me just how old you think the stones might be? I am assuming "confiscated" means taken away by Americans with the loss of the territory?

I have heard of a clue that has something to do with the Horses right ear, but I do not remember where that clue came from. If anyone remembers, please post it. I will tell you that the Horses right ear is the key to placing the Horse Stone and once placed, the location of the number 5, surrounded by five dots, becomes clear. Five represents silver as a treasure symbol.

OK, thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

[Ellie Baba]

May I ask where the sacred heart church is located?good luck
TOM

Hi Tom,

There is so much more to this story than most people know. Note it's location; you must read between the lines (Golden Gate Barrio).

Sacred Heart Beats On

A melted candle, silk flowers and a few spider webs. Crickets chirping, cars whooshing by and planes taking off. Anxiety, sadness and reverence.

Sacred Heart Church overwhelms the senses.

Driving through the intersection of 16th Street and Buckeye Road in central Phoenix, you might arbitrarily pass this solitary brick building without second thought. But if you take a moment to stop and notice it, you'll see an almost-missed opportunity to learn an important piece of Phoenix history.

Several signs placed on the barbed-wire fence surrounding the Sacred Heart Church notify passersby that the building is now off-limits to the public.
Photo by Joanne Ingram

Sacred Heart Church stands in the corner of an otherwise empty lot. For more than two decades, it was the only remnant of the Golden Gate Barrio, a Mexican-American neighborhood that was razed in the 1970s and 1980s to make room for the expansion of the Sky Harbor International Airport and the Sky Harbor Center.
According to Dr. Santos Vega, former president of the Arizona Association of Chicanos for Higher Education and former executive director of the Braun-Sacred Heart Center, residents of the barrio were displaced through eminent domain, which gives municipalities the power to acquire private land for public use and offer compensation to the landowners.
Abe Arvizu Jr., current chairman of the Braun-Sacred Heart Center and aviation electrician for the city of Phoenix, used to live in the neighborhood.
"We were the last family to leave," Arvizu said.

During that time, the city also planned to tear down Sacred Heart Church, which was completed in 1956, but after extensive debate over how to proceed, the church was added to the Historic Property Register in 2007.

Frank Barrios, author of the book "Mexicans in Phoenix," attended a Phoenix Aviation Advisory Board meeting several years ago to discuss the church. In a phone interview, Barrios said there were plans to build a cultural center around it.

Pete Dimas, executive director of the Braun-Sacred Heart Center, said another objective was to construct a historical museum on the site.
Arvizu confirmed expansion plans, saying four proposals were brought to the table, none of which were chosen, suddenly halting the church's expansion plans. A lack of funding didn't help.

Frank Barrios collected thousands of photos and captured many of them in his book, "Mexicans in Phoenix." He also collects books such as this one on the history of Arizona.
Photo by Joanne Ingram

"Everything's dead because of the economy," Barrios said.
Although the church normally stands empty, the door opens one day of the year and hundreds flock to the building. Since 1986, Christmas Mass has been held at Sacred Heart Church.

"The Sacred Heart Church was a very important part of Golden Gate," David Almendarez, a member of the Braun-Sacred Heart Center, said in an e-mail.
The Christmas Mass celebration allows former barrio residents to reunite and remember the old neighborhood.

Barrios has fond memories of the neighborhood as well. Although he was raised in downtown Phoenix, he spent much of his youth at places like Calderon's, a dance hall in the barrio.

Barrios later joined a committee to help erect a statue of Father Albert Braun, the man who built Sacred Heart Church. Braun died in 1983 and his statue now stands in the Wesley Bolin Memorial Park at the Arizona State Capitol Concourse in Phoenix.

Despite the continuous battle over the church, Arvizu said, Sky Harbor International Airport has also brought about positive changes to the city. According to Heather Lissner, public information specialist for the city's Aviation Department, the airport employs 33,000 people and airport officials remain active in the community.



The old Sacred Heart Church remains in the flight path. But, Lissner said, officials began the Community Noise Reduction Program in the 1990s, which provides soundproofing to homes nearby.

Many still hold on to the hope that Sacred Heart Church can someday expand and include those who want to learn about the history of the old neighborhood. "We're still in limbo," Arvizu said. "We want to move on and see what we can do."

—Joanne Ingram

They hold a Christmas Mass every year. It is the only time the church io opened. You should see the inside. I will look for my photographs when I get a chance.

Take care,

Ellie B

 

[tom dunkle]

cubfan,

You may want to consider the following:

"In an old cabin, Ray found a saddle bag with a diary in it which had been kept by a man named Tumlinson from Texas. The diary told of a trip to Mexico to locate a mining family and it gave a complete run down of the mines they had worked."

"The diary also told of an expedition composed of five hundred people, Tumlinson was one of them, who came from Mexico to Arizona in the 1890`s to look for treasure and an exceptionally rich mine. The Mexicans went home empty handed". Pg. 40

Also:

"If you discard the writing on the stone tablets, you will end up with some astronomical symbols and depictions of certain physical phenomena that can be seen only at certain times on certain days of the year within the Superstition Mountains". Pg. 88

Both of these quotes came from Don Shade`a work, "Esperanza".


If both of these statements are true and I have strong reason to believe they are, they suggest that first at least one of the possible end points for the maps is in fact the Superstitions. Also it suggests at least the Trail Maps are a lot older than we suspect.

Also it gives credance to the possibility that the elder Tumlison buried the maps and his descendent was directed to them by the elder Tumlison. Also it could mean that the younger Tumlison was in possession of paper maps and made the maps, he had a talent.

I believe the trail maps were in fact created long before Tumlison became involved. It is pretty clear, at least to me, from novice`s fine work that Tumlison did in fact make the H/P Map. But why? If he did do it was he directed by others in his efforts or did he have a paper map to work from.

One final word about Don Shade, a lot of people make light of him but his book is far richer than the nonsense of Barry Storm or Thomas Glover in understanding the mystery of the Superstitions.


Tom

 

[Ellie Baba]

Tom said; Also:

"If you discard the writing on the stone tablets, you will end up with some astronomical symbols and depictions of certain physical phenomena that can be seen only at certain times on certain days of the year within the Superstition Mountains". Pg. 88

Both of these quotes came from Don Shade's work, "Esperanza".

Thank you Tom!

This statement gives support to the SARA monuments that are used to decipher the Stone Maps!

Ellie Baba

 

[tom dunkle]

Hello Ellie,

I am just a retired geologist from New England. Most of the stuff you write about is way above my pay grade.

I do believe there is something incredibly important in the Superstitions and near Laughlin. What I do not have a clue

Good luck

Tom

 

[Ellie Baba]

Easy once you know how its done...like algebra, riding a bike, etc.

Hello Ellie,

I am just a retired geologist from New England. Most of the stuff you write about is way above my pay grade.

I do believe there is something incredibly important in the Superstitions and near Laughlin. What I do not have a clue

Good luck

Tom

Hi Tom,

Once the book is available to the public (when? Soon I hope) and you have read the material within, it will all come together. I am not a geologist, but I have a few on retainer and we work with a number of Canadian firms which are interested in our Au and platinum group element properties located here in AZ. Its a work in progress to be sure.

You specialize in the fields that attract you and you understand them better then most. The Stone Maps are my specialty and learning to understand them has been a challenge. The Horse Map I understand, the Heart and Trail Maps I've got them down also. The Priest Map?
There's another story, although I am getting there. It is tied to the Adamsville treasure that Bob Brewer and I worked on together along with a number of my team members. We experienced the closest thing to finding a cache, we found the map laid out in the huge hole that we dug. I thought we had it! See the book; Shadow of the Sentinel (Arizona Chapter) by Warren Getler and Bob Brewer. I am in no way new to this profession and have worked hard over the last 25 years.

I have also located a few other depositories tied to the Florence Depository area. Woolsey Peak, Black Hawk and the Phoenix Depositories. I have an advantage of working in these locations and have identified the techniques used to cache hidden objects. I do not have the time to solve them all as I must work for a living and the Stone Maps are my Mistress (ask my X-wife).

I have written a book about these depository areas and have not yet decided if I want this information to go public. These areas would be laid to waste by the onslaught of treasure seekers. We know of a better way and that has become our goal. All in good time.

2013, Something wonderful is about to happen.

Ellie B



This type of art form has been around for a very long, long time. By the way, thanks for your interest and good luck too you.

 

[cactusjumper]

All,

Try taking a topo' and using Aylor's Arch as the eye of the horse, see if you can find an outline of the horse's head. The two hills on the north end of Black Top Mesa are the rump of the horse.

Aylor's Arch used to be called Ojo de Caballo, which means "Eye of the Horse".

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Ellie Baba]

I've grown tired of the constant rehashing of old information for the umpteenth time with folks who don't do their own research. Also gotten tired of reading so many outlandish claims of being the "sole finder" of the LDM by numerous folks every year - with absolutely no viable proof ever presented. In light of all that, I've dropped back to checking in on the forums once a month at most.

That said, I'd love to do an experiment... everyone who thinks they know (or even have heard) where the Stone Maps were found, please use a map program, do a cut and past and post here a map image of exactly where you think they were found.

I'll take a wild guess here... I bet there will only be a few that match closely.

Hey Guys,

If memory serves me correctly this is the correct location of where the Stone Maps were found (SMF). I had taken many photographs of the area and I am looking for them. I remember the old highway and the bridge.

Bob Brewer and I walked around the area. The cattle tank had a witness mark and I do not remember what it was. That is why I always take photographs. My search area may be a little off as I believe section 9 (333) was were they were found.



Any other takers? Joe, any knowledge about this location?

Ellie Baba

 

[cactusjumper]

Ellie,

Once I was certain of the location of the trail maps, I had no interest in where, it is claimed, the stones were found. I could see no connection. That being said, I am aware that others have made that connection with their own location.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Ellie Baba]

Ellie,

Once I was certain of the location of the trail maps, I had no interest in where, it is claimed, the stones were found. I could see no connection. That being said, I am aware that others have made that connection with their own location.

Good luck,

Joe

Joe,

I understand your answer and thank you.

Ellie

 

[cactusjumper]

On the trail maps.........

Take my map, I hand them out at the Rendezvous, and copies of the stone trail maps. Put your finger on any point on the Stone Maps. Look at the lines that are attached to that point, or things that are close by, and in the correct positions. See if you can make the same correlation between my map and the Stone Maps. How many of those matches can you find?

Does anyone else have a map that comes that close to the Stone Maps?

Joe Ribaudo

 

[coazon de oro]

Tom said; Also:

"If you discard the writing on the stone tablets, you will end up with some astronomical symbols and depictions of certain physical phenomena that can be seen only at certain times on certain days of the year within the Superstition Mountains". Pg. 88

Both of these quotes came from Don Shade's work, "Esperanza".

Thank you Tom!

This statement gives support to the SARA monuments that are used to decipher the Stone Maps!

Ellie Baba

Don Shade's work was based on assumptions. Just one of the many culprits to twist the stories. That statement on page 88, was just his excuse for not being able to find anything.

You seem to be basing your own assumptions from the assumptions of others.

At least you already stated that your book will lead to nowhere. I'll give you that much. You said it might help others find something. If you yourself can't find anything, how will it help others?

Homar P. Olivarez

 

[Ellie Baba]

Don Shade's work was based on assumptions. Just one of the many culprits to twist the stories. That statement on page 88, was just his excuse for not being able to find anything.

You seem to be basing your own assumptions from the assumptions of others.

At least you already stated that your book will lead to nowhere. I'll give you that much. You said it might help others find something. If you yourself can't find anything, how will it help others?

Homar P. Olivarez

Hi Homar,

I also made a statement that the Stone Maps have also indicated where three cache sites are located. The exact "X" marks the spot is in the details. If we find them so be it. Don Shade like so many others did not find anything. That doesn't mean that his conclusions were not well founded.

There are quite a number of us that have seen these monuments and truly believe of their existence. One thing I have learned is to never assume anything; I do not want to make an ass of myself, you or anyone else for making a mistake. If you were here with me this very minute I could prove to you that Don Shade was absolutely right on. I will give credit to those that earn it.

Don Shade was trying to solve the legends just like the rest of us. He was trying to solve the riddles, not to twist the stories. I will never claim to know it all, but with said, I do know what I am talking about.

So many of you have no idea who I am and you have not taken a single step in my shoes. The facts stated in my book will also give you an insight into my life.

This first book, the Horse Map will not tell anyone where to find a single cache. It explains how the system actually works. The horse must draw the cart, not the other way around. The treasures will come later whether I am still around or not.


I hope that he above information will re-aligned your above statement. Opinions are like...everyone has one. I will not judge you for what you believe at present. Its what you believe in the future that really matters.

Best regards Homar,

Ellie Baba

 

[coazon de oro]

Hi Homar,

I also made a statement that the Stone Maps have also indicated where three cache sites are located. The exact "X" marks the spot is in the details. If we find them so be it. Don Shade like so many others did not find anything. That doesn't mean that his conclusions were not well founded.

There are quite a number of us that have seen these monuments and truly believe of their existence. One thing I have learned is to never assume anything; I do not want to make an ass of myself, you or anyone else for making a mistake. If you were here with me this very minute I could prove to you that Don Shade was absolutely right on. I will give credit to those that earn it.

Don Shade was trying to solve the legends just like the rest of us. He was trying to solve the riddles, not to twist the stories. I will never claim to know it all, but with said, I do know what I am talking about.

So many of you have no idea who I am and you have not taken a single step in my shoes. The facts stated in my book will also give you an insight into my life.

This first book, the Horse Map will not tell anyone where to find a single cache. It explains how the system actually works. The horse must draw the cart, not the other way around. The treasures will come later whether I am still around or not.


I hope that he above information will re-aligned your above statement. Opinions are like...everyone has one. I will not judge you for what you believe at present. Its what you believe in the future that really matters.

Best regards Homar,

Ellie Baba

Great response, I have no further questions, and do look forward to your books.

Homar P. Olivarez

 

[cactusjumper]

Ellie,

I to look forward to your getting your book published. In fact, I am placing my order right now. When those first books roll off the press, please sign one for me and put in in the mail. I will be happy to pay all costs in advance.

Take care,

Joe

 

[coazon de oro]

markmar,
Yes, that is one source of the story. But there is another printed version that I am going nuts trying to re-find. Thank you!

somehiker,
I hope that you don't mind me questioning your belief about the stones. So, from what I understand, the Horse Stone is a map that tells the locations of its own (and the other stones) burial? That just seems illogical. Burying your own locator map with the things to be located. But, if it were intentionally buried as a locator map and was accedentially "dug up" by power shovel, that means that its original position was disturbed, making the horse stone impossible to use as point of reference. How would anyone know where to measure from? What we now know is that the new bridge was most likely completed when Tumlinson arrived in 1948 or 1949. There was much activity at that site and still no one noticed the protruding stone but Tumlinson? It just seems to be problematic.

Could you tell me just how old you think the stones might be? I am assuming "confiscated" means taken away by Americans with the loss of the territory?

I have heard of a clue that has something to do with the Horses right ear, but I do not remember where that clue came from. If anyone remembers, please post it. I will tell you that the Horses right ear is the key to placing the Horse Stone and once placed, the location of the number 5, surrounded by five dots, becomes clear. Five represents silver as a treasure symbol.

OK, thank you for taking the time to respond.

Hal,

You made a very good point which would make it almost impossible for the PSM's to come out of holes 1, and 1b. This makes hole number 5 more likely to be the original.

Homar P. Olivarez

 

[Ellie Baba]

Ellie,

I to look forward to your getting your book published. In fact, I am placing my order right now. When those first books roll off the press, please sign one for me and put in in the mail. I will be happy to pay all costs in advance.

Take care,

Joe

10-4 Joe.

Currently we are trying to determine the best way to market the book. The cost of publishing these days is very expensive. We are working with some people in the UK. They have placed over 500 books into the market and have enjoyed great success. I know nothing about publishing or how to market a book and they will recommend the best tactics.

You will be one of the first my friend.

Thanks for the support!

Ellie B