The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

[Cubfan64]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Only someone that has proof of the mine's whereabouts can prove any theory on translation wrong

lol what ever

Gee, I wonder why it is you against everyone else. how can you not see this to be fact? reality ? I tend to think anymore you are just a troll looking to incite and inflame ,I guess it come's down to the rendezvous and you proving it, but I tend to think you will come up with a good excuse why you can not make it or if you do make it you will say you received no respect and that nobody deserves to know where it is and you will say that you are just happy knowing that you were the one to find it and thats all that matters and you will continue this bob and weave around fact's and proof. Please do not get me wrong, if you do prove that you have found it I will be more than willing to post a mile long thread with my apologies, I will be shocked but not shocked enough that I can not give credit where due. I wish you all the luck in your quest as I do to all that seek it.

Well stated Allan - on all counts!

When asked to "put up or shut up" or to "walk the walk instead of just talking the talk" we continue to get the same old pablum regurgitated year after year by some folks.

There is a question that's been raised over and over again over the years which he refuses to answer - frankly because I think he knows we all know the real answer...

Since he's clearly and many times claimed here that he isn't looking to get rich (monetary reward), isn't seeking fame (he's stated many times that he doesn't care about the human race and what any of us think of him), and is 100% convinced he knows the answers to all the questions about the location of the LDM and the solution to the Stone Maps, then why spend the time, money and effort he continues to complain about to us all here on a daily basis to PROVE he's found what he says he has?

The answer is patently obvious to all of us here, and he knows it as well as we all do - it's just that he can't allow himself to answer the question because it shows his true self and he would have to admit his shortcomings - and of course we all know he has none of those .

How many times has he "left TNet" over the years, never to return? How many times has he said he "doesn't care" about any of this stuff? And yet, actions speak FAR louder than words do .

In many ways I sense that he believes himself to be a "puppetmaster" controling our every moves, and yet when one looks at it from the outside, it's clear who the real puppet is.

While I'm looking forward to the Rendezvous again this year as I'll get to see a lot of good folks I've gotten to know again, and spend a week or so exploring some new places in the mountains, I can't help but be concerned as to what sort of reaction he will have if/when he shows up and doesn't receive the reception he so clearly expects.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Family Maps of Hinds County, Mississippi, Deluxe Edition - Grab it through Amazon!

[Blindbowman]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Blindbowman wrote

ROFL .. you have not not seen the correct translations yet ... they are nothing alike my friend ,nothing !
up till now all there is is jokes and fakes
like joe 's map . he never said a word about the placer map on the stone why because he dose not even know there is one ...lol

There you go again, (to misquote a famous popular former president) right back onto the stone maps translation. Stone maps translations are a dime a dozen. It looks like you can not present your case without that stone maps translation, is that true? The trouble is that the stone maps. despite weighing some 20 pounds each, will not tip the scales, so it will take different evidence not just a translation. Let me put this into one simple question; if you take the stone maps OUT of your equation, do you still have a gold mine? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

i dont need the stones at all ..

i dont need a map .. or a guide or BS from anyone here ...

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Blindbowman wrote

ROFL .. you have not not seen the correct translations yet ... they are nothing alike my friend ,nothing !
up till now all there is is jokes and fakes
like joe 's map . he never said a word about the placer map on the stone why because he dose not even know there is one ...lol

There you go again, (to misquote a famous popular former president) right back onto the stone maps translation. Stone maps translations are a dime a dozen. It looks like you can not present your case without that stone maps translation, is that true? The trouble is that the stone maps. despite weighing some 20 pounds each, will not tip the scales, so it will take different evidence not just a translation. Let me put this into one simple question; if you take the stone maps OUT of your equation, do you still have a gold mine? Thank you in advance,
Oroblanco

i dont need the stones at all ..

i dont need a map .. or a guide or BS from anyone here ...

Amigo I am not trying to BS you, just trying to tell you that the stone maps are not going to make a convincing case. That is why I asked you directly, if you take the stone maps out of the equation, do you still have a gold mine. If you do, then good for you and the rest of the evidence should be easy.
Oroblanco

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

YES i have a gold mine . a late 1500's to early 1600's gold mine

a real one ..

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

YES i have a gold mine . a late 1500's to early 1600's gold mine

a real one ..

Congrats amigo! <2 thumbs up!>

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

whats funny is how many mines are out there no one has found yet ,,,.....lol

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

?? what's odd about that ?? no area is ever completely worked out, nor is all of the mineral down to 200 ft known?
Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

?? what's odd about that ?? no area is ever completely worked out, nor is all of the mineral down to 200 ft known?
Don Jose de La Mancha

" God was better at putting it there then we are at finding it "...

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

you posted --> " God was better at putting it there then we are at finding it "...
***************
So

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Blindbowman wrote

God was better at putting it there then we are at finding it

It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honor of kings is to search out a matter. <Proverbs 25:2>
For there is nothing hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should come abroad.<Mark 4:22>>
Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: <Matthew 7:7>

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Here's an interesting tid-bit on the Stone Maps.......

Some time ago a fellow posted, I believe on DUSA, but it could have been somewhere else, that he was a descendent of Jacob Wieser living in Germany. He wrote quite a bit, but there was one thing that ended up being of interest to me.

At first I thought he was just another kook and so I made a hard copy of his post and ended up throwing it in the trash. As I was thinking about his post, one thing stuck out. He said he wanted someone to go to the top of Weaver's Needle and take a picture straight towards Superstition Peak. From that, he claimed he could point out where the LDM was.

I took out my Topo' with the Stone Maps laid out on it, and drew a line between the two points mentioned above. As you know, there is a second "X" that is on the ridge between West and East Boulder Canyons.

One of my team members found a sealed mine there in 2004, my last trip into the range. That line went through the exact center of that "X", not a little to the left or a little to the right, but right through the middle.

Now when you consider that I laid out that map around fifty years ago, that was quite a coincidence.

True story.

Good Luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[EE THr]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Joe---

If the LDM can be seen from Weaver's Needle, in the direction of Superstition Peak, then that would rule out the clues about the setting sun shining into the shaft or on his gold, wouldn't it?

Of course, who knows if Waltz really said that?

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

EE,

I think pointing out where the LDM is, is different than pointing directly to the mine itself. Beyond that, who can really say what Waltz said with complete confidence. I believe the guy who posted that little message, was named Hershal Weiser.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

no joe that was total follishness ...

the setting sun could be anything from one second after the noon bell to dusk..

 

[EE THr]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

EE,

I think pointing out where the LDM is, is different than pointing directly to the mine itself. Beyond that, who can really say what Waltz said with complete confidence. I believe the guy who posted that little message, was named Hershal Weiser.

Take care,

Joe

That's true. He could just point out a hill, and say, "it's just on the other side of this."

And, as has been said several times before, by several people, Waltz could have been misleading people with his "clues," if it even was him who originated them.

That is quite a coincidence, that you told of. Coincidences are funny, they can be misleading, or they can be things to take a closer look at. There are lots of "coincidences" surrounding both the Stone Maps and the LDM---including the publically available paper maps.

I often wonder if all the coincidences are purely accidental, or intentional (to be misleading), or maybe a result of actually indicating that there is something there which is revealing something about the location of the LDM?

Your German guy apparently knew, at least, something about the layout of the Supers. Did he have anything to indicate that he was really in Germany (and that was his real name), and not just someone from here, having fun at his computer?

It makes me wonder why a guy that far away would spend any time and effort to study the area of the Superstitions, if he wasn't planning on coming here?---Unless he believed that he had some solid information, and then realized the trouble it could be to retireve anything from a Wilderness Area?

 

[lgadbois]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

I promised myself more than 40 years ago that I would not research the LDM, and yet the subject of the Map Stones is fascinating. As EE said, we have little facts to go on. We have many interpretations of the Stones, and little or no proof to confirm these theories.

On one of the topics in this forum I posted some time back was Thomas Probert's interpretation of the Stones, and I was put down by Joe. After some follow-up research on my part, I can understand why he has confidence in the Stones pertaining to the area between Queen Creek and the Salt River. On a larger scale, maybe the combined map of sides 2 & 3 still relate to the mission trail up the Santa Maria (Santa Cruz River) from Arispe also. (As a side note, the large drilled hole in the lower stone map could be the site of the large mine West of Tumacacori. It is possible that valuable goods were stored at that location. There has been more than one discovery of gold and silver bars in the areas West of the Santa Cruz River between Nogales and Tubac.)

I thought the information about the carved sandstones found in the Tumlinson family cabin in New Mexico was interesting. A comparison of the stone materials used in the chimney with the material in the original Stone Maps might reveal that they were created by the Tumlinson family or someone known to them. Even if they created the Stone Maps, an original map may have been used as a source.

I have some observations and some questions starting with the Witch Stone:
Why are there three crosses on the gown, in the hand, and 2 cross stones pictured? I would assume that the map is indicating that the purpose of the journey has something to do with the Church (Jesuit or Franciscan). Why is the figure perched on a three or four tier pedestal? Does the figure mean that Weaver's Needle is the major landmark? The Stone has a S and N for compass directions, and it shows the sombrero (more likely a symbol for a picacho) South from the Heart. It is also interesting that it says Sonora Mex on the Stone. The directions extending from the Witch seem to indicate a circled dot destination below the number 3, the cross stone to continue North on the trail until reaching the next dotted circle and then the heart. Are there 8 places to go after reaching the heart? And then we have another cross.....

Next, I looked at the Horse Stone. It shows a cross at the same position as on the sides 2 & 3 Map Stones. The cross is at the starting point of the trail. Some believe that the starting point of the trail is a church in Sonora, and others believe that the trail starts where the Stones were found near Queen Creek. Maybe both could be true. It is important to note that there are two circled destination points shown on the Horse Stone that are South of the Picacho. These circled dots must be the ones shown on the Witch Stone. The heart shows only one circled dot. There are five dots North of the Rio that may be mines, though they don't seem to have any importance. There is another circled destination to the East of the horse's ear. Is this a separate location, or does this relate to the destination in the heart? Is it possible that the job was to pick up some goods at one location and deliver the goods to a more secure location up North?

Next, I look at the combined map with sides 2 & 3 and the Heart. The trail hooks back to the West as it approaches the circled dot destination in the Heart. The circled dot is North of the Picacho. It appears to be on the East side of a canon that runs SW to NE, as the other lines on the map appear to represent canons. As you look at the lower stone map, the mountains shown at the bottom could be Superstition Mountain. If so, the large drilled hole could represent Weaver's Needle. The Picacho is then North of Weaver's Needle. Is there a mountain just SE of the Massacre Grounds that could be the Picacho? The arrow coming in from the West may mean that the destination is also accessible from the area where Peralta's Camp was located. (We don't really know if the Stone Maps have anything to do with Peralta). The Triangle with the hole and the mark coming out of it could be an arrow, but it may have other significance. Is it a trail marker of some kind?

Joe's map leads to the mine at the North end of Bluff Springs Mountain. Many searches have made around the entire Mountain, but nothing else has been found. It is my opinion that the Picacho is not either Weaver's Needle or Miner's Needle. There is a picacho on the East side of Red Tank. There is also a cave and a mine just to the North of that picacho.

I also took a look at the Latin Heart. On the front side there are place locations that are named. On the back side there are Roman numerals. If we look at the original Heart Stone, there appears to be a very weakly carved picacho at the very top as it is placed inside the Map Stone. (Added by someone?) Just below this symbol and to the West toward the dip in the heart is a wavy line (Fresco Canon?). The landmarks on the Latin Heart are labeled on the front side. I believe that the numbers on the back of the Latin Heart are elevations. The point of highest elevation therefore would be on that top wavy line. Other high elevations are at the tip of the heart and the far right side of the heart above the wavy line. None of the elevations on the Latin Heart seem identify with the placement of the picacho on the original Heart Stone, though the canon to the North of the picacho is shown as the lowest point on the back of the Latin Heart. The top right side shows a water fall. A crater is labeled to the West nearer the dip in the heart. The circled dot on the Heart Stone is identified with the word Noto on the Latin Heart. Next to it is the words Noto Triangulum. Noto meaning pay attention, and Triangulum meaning Triangle. The triangle on the Heart Stone appears to be an arrow pointing to the final destination, but it could also be the real destination.

Mark Clayton wrote a book that has introduced the idea that the Church's 20% tithe to King Ferdinand was secreted in the Superstitions. The book is called, "The Conclusion to the Original Peralta Stone Maps." Did he have source material proving that the Church cached treasure owed to the King? Or is this another fanciful idea that has been added to the legend?

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Igad,

This is where we started our little exchange:

______________________________

lgadbois

Posts: 98






REPORT POST / Nominate For Banner
Re: The Peralta Stones

Reply To This Topic #83 Posted Jan 24, 2007, 08:06:31 PM

Quote

There isn't much evidence linking the map stones with the Lost Duchman Mine. It is possible that they were engraved by the Peralta family. In the June and July 1976 Treasure Magazine, Tom Probert gave an excellent description of his opinion on the stones. I have studied his interpretation carefully, and his overall idea seems to fit. The map and the 18 places matches very well with the trail and missions starting at the Ures Mission and ending up north at Casa Grande. He identifies the locations with a map drawn by Padre Kino in 1695. I have many different maps of the area including one that was drawn just before 1767 when the Jesuits were arrested and removed from the missions. The locations on the newer more accurate maps seem to match the rock maps very well. I'm not sure that I buy the final destination as Casa Grande. If you look at the figure, it is not a witch. It is a priest standing on a base or pedestal. Why would the Peraltas put that on a map? The priest is waving a cross in the direction of the trail.

Some have said that the Jesuits found out about the arrests and moved their valuables to a hidden cache in or near the Superstitions. The so called mine may actually be a cache of church gold, silver, and other items from the missions. That would date the stone map to about 1747. This was also the time period when the Tumacacori Mine, which was located west of the mission at Camp Loco, was being operated.
_____________________________

Anyone who wants to read what followed can go back and see what I said. You wrote:

"On one of the topics in this forum I posted some time back was Thomas Probert's interpretation of the Stones, and I was put down by Joe"

We eventually did get crosswise, but it didn't start out that way. I think I was fair with you.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Igadbois wrote

I thought the information about the carved sandstones found in the Tumlinson family cabin in New Mexico was interesting. A comparison of the stone materials used in the chimney with the material in the original Stone Maps might reveal that they were created by the Tumlinson family or someone known to them. Even if they created the Stone Maps, an original map may have been used as a source.

There was a mention of a CLOTH map that duplicated the stone maps, the size of a pillowcase if memory serves, in possession of Tumlinson; which was in a private letter but I cannot recall where I saw it. Is it possible that the cloth map may be the original, to which the stones were carved?
Oroblanco

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Joe i hope your map is not configured from what you said above ..Thomas Probert's interpretation of the Stones is not correct ,,.....

 

[lgadbois]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

BB, if you read Joe's posting carefully you will understand that he was quoting a posting I made about four years ago. Joe posted his trail map on another topic in this forum.

It is amazing that the Stone Maps can appear to apply to other areas. Some believe that they fit the area North of the Salt River. Another group claims that the river on the map is the Rio Grande.

The purpose of the Stone Maps has never been confirmed. Are they a waybill to the LDM? Do they point the way to a Church cache? Are they part of a puzzle of the burial of Ted DeGrazia's paintings? Were they planted to validate the 19th century claims of James Reavis, the Baron of Arizona? Are they a map to Peralta's mines?

A lot of effort went into the creation of the Stone Maps. Many on this board have opinions that are based on years of study and discussion. For me, any discovery or gold found is secondary to the challenge of solving the puzzle.