The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

[Oroblanco]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Roy,

Do you have Dr. Glover's "Part 2: The Holmes Manuscriip"?

Take care,

Joe

Yes, and yes the intro does state that it was Higham who deposited the manuscript with the state archives, but also Higham included a letter denouncing the Holmes MSS as a possible fraud. Charles F. Higham was really named John Lindley Higham, he adopted the name of a much more famous Higham for his art and writing. I got the distinct impression that Dr Glover was saying the Holmes MSS was NOT written by Higham, rather than proposing that he did? Maybe I am reading this wrong? Any further info would be appreciated, thank you in advance.
Roy

 

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[Blindbowman]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

in reality Roy that makes perfect sence .. its just what i have been saying all long . that waltz wrote it as his will ,and it was passed on from there .. by Dick Holmes to Browie Holmes and so on till it became public ..

i agree with browie Holmes if i had known what Dick Holmes did and he was my father i still would not have said he wrote it . he did not write . did he pass it on IMHO yes ....he wanted to make it public .because dick or browie could never get the dirrections in the will to work correctly .. they never would have been able to use the direction , its a fact ...IMHO

its not that i dont beleive the writers are not good writers . its the data pool , its like a gene pool if you let anything in .. your going to get wild theories like the templar and chirst factors . but . isolate and define the logical and the truth will work its way to the top ..

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

in reality Roy that makes perfect sence .. its just what i have been saying all long . that waltz wrote it as his will ,and it was passed on from there .. by Dick Holmes to Browie Holmes and so on till it became public ..

i agree with browie Holmes if i had known what Dick Holmes did and he was my father i still would not have said he wrote it . he did not write . did he pass it on IMHO yes ....he wanted to make it public .because dick or browie could never get the dirrections in the will to work correctly .. they never would have been able to use the direction , its a fact ...IMHO

its not that i dont beleive the writers are not good writers . its the data pool , its like a gene pool if you let anything in .. your going to get wild theories like the templar and chirst factors . but . isolate and define the logical and the truth will work its way to the top ..

I have taken you off "ignore"; your statements here I have to respectfully disagree with. The Holmes MSS does not read like a last will and testament to me. If it was really a last will and testament, where is the reference to who gets his homestead? What about his livestock? (Chickens and mule) What about his shotgun, who is to get that? What about his sister? Why no mention of anything, positive or negative, to be left as a bequest to Julia & Reiney? I have read the Holmes MSS over more than once, and I fail to see how this can be interpreted as a last will and testament. I know you have posted this theory that the Holmes MSS was Waltz's "will" several times but no offence intended, and it is interesting BUT I simply don't buy it.

You also stated "isolate and define the logical and the truth will work its way to the top" well that logical set of data is quite small; there really was such a person as Jacob Waltz, and he had very rich gold ore, which apparently came from an unknown source. Waltz traveled in some very rich gold country before settling in Phoenix, and was a naturalized citizen. He is reported as having pointed at the Superstitions when telling his friends Julia and Reiney that the mine is up there. Holmes supposedly trailed him to near Hidden Water. Waltz claimed he had a partner whom was killed by Indians; Doc Walker told of a man named Weiser turning up fatally wounded, we could go on here but the actual facts are pretty short. The whole Peralta saga cannot be documented in the Superstitions, and the Peralta stones are highly suspect at this point. This is why I had asked you earlier if you could present a case for your claim of having found the LDM, without relying on the Peralta stones or other clues etc, really some very basic things would seal the deal (photos, ore specimen for examples) but you went right back to the talking points on the stones. Your theory of the Holmes MSS being in reality the last will and testament of Waltz, decoding of the Peralta stones etc may seem perfectly logical and make perfect sense to you, but to me (and again, no offense) it doesn't.
Roy

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

bb,

I have to agree with every word that Roy has just written. Although you have tried mightily to provide some kind of logic to back up your theory, your posts have all fallen very short of that goal. There is no history, no logic and no evidence to support your conclusions.

You have mentioned many times how uninformed we all are. In actuality, many people on this forum are very well (self) educated on this subject. That is why you are having such a difficult time convincing anyone that you have a viable theory.

On the other hand, it's always possible that someone, including you, has accidentally stumbled on the LDM. If I were able, based on the argument/"evidence" you have presented here, I would not walk one foot into the Superstitions with you.

I hope someone does join you, if only for your own safety. It should be someone with a great deal more experience in the Superstitions than what you have presented here.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Just to add to that, just a tad, let me quote from the San Francisco Chronicle, January 13, 1895

Quote:

"Of course, his beneficiary lost no time after the funeral in turning over with the shovel every foot of the old man's little piece of property--which, by the way, he left to her by will: Unquote


"his" is Jacob Waltz, his "beneficiary" was Julia, and, he left the place to her, by his will, NOT THE MANUSCRIPT.


You got anything in the manuscript about that?

Beth

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Beth,

On page 153, Dr. Glover wrote: "Once the flood happens, Jacob Starrar seems to wash his hands of Waltz almost as if it was good riddance. It is a fact that within six months of Waltz's death Jacob Starrar finishes selling off Waltz's former land, including Waltz's home. Was Jacob Starrar just waiting to get rid of the old man to sell the remaining land?"

If that's true (source?), the San Francisco article was erroneous. Not unusual in those days. Perhaps a good question to ask Thomas if he makes the Rendezvous, and I believe he will.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

i full agree with almost everything you have all said . with a few difrences ..

one he may have left that other will . and had not desided to make the mine public to protect julia . and note is the mine in that will, NO ,is the things that are in that will in the hiden will NO, you got to remember he killed 3 people stold this mine .. we have set back and ask our selfs dozens of time is this really the real LDM .. why could find no evidence that proves it is not the LDM... in fact a lot of evidence saying it is,it is right out in the open and other evidence is hiden in the details of the clues from more then one sorce .. if i was going to pick a sorce to defend ,it sure would not have been the Peralta stones .. but then again no one knows what i know at this point ..

i agree with you guys the stones have had so many people try to solve them the correct translation will be a breath of fresh air .. and people well say .. wow

its to complex to explain from here . i will have no problem what so ever proveing the mine is the real LDM

and as i said i do agree with what you are all saying .. but why do you think the legend was not solved ...?

i can tell you the main reasons . cases go unsolved

1 mis labled evidence
2 lack of evidence
3 lack of clear cut evidence
4 misleeding evidence
5 poor trabslation of collected evidence
6 poor collection of evidence


this case has a little of all of those ...

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

bb,

You've had five or six years of constantly (unsuccessfully) trying to prove your theories. Why do you think you can do it in five minutes?

I noticed "You're all being played for fools" has been deleted.

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

BB, you listed many things why crimes and treasure sites go unsolved, however, you forgot to list the 'most important one', the investigator him / her self.

If the investigator has too many 'preconceived', incorrect ideas as to what happened, they can obviously lose the track of what actually happened.

We tend to fill in with possibly true, parallel data which may not have had anything to do with the project in hand, or accept incorrect data to reinforce our personal version.

This especially applies to the LDM, and it's principal, Waltz. . Most are attempting to psychoanalyze a partially understood character, and a very vague report on a possible valuable gold vein on the basis of various incomplete documents, some Gold specimens, and possible incorrect occurrences, it will never happen.

Relax, just go get your specimens, take photographs, and GPS readings, & bring them bk to have your moment at the camp fire.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Relax, just go get your specimens, take photographs, and GPS readings, & bring them bk to have your moment at the camp fire.

RDT - that was my suggestion as well. From everything I've seen here over the years as well as the general demeanor of BB on TNet, it is quite literally the ONLY way I can foresee him getting the time of day from most people at the Rendezvous - he has zero credibility at this point.

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Paul,

I have said I would not listen to bb for a minute at the Rendezvous. That, of course, is not true. I will listen to what he has to say, long enough to see if he will be saying anything different than what he has presented here, and to Scott.

If it's the same nonsense, it may very well be less than a minute. From what he said after sending you on that wild goose chase, which I believe you enjoyed, I don't believe he had ever been there. Over the years, he has shown a decided lack of knowledge about the mountains and the history of the area.

I suspect he will be hopelessly lost as soon as he leaves the maintained trails. That's why I hope someone will accompany him who has experience. I would not want to see him get into trouble in our mountains. I'm sure everyone knows what I mean. The Supe's can be a painful mistress, until you really get to know her.

bb,

If you make it to camp, please take the time and make the effort to listen to any advise some of the old timers might offer. They've been there and done that........many times.

See you in camp,

Joe

 

[Cubfan64]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

bb,

If you make it to camp, please take the time and make the effort to listen to any advise some of the old timers might offer. They've been there and done that........many times.

Joe - I'd be absolutely SHOCKED if BB took your advice to listen to anyone about anything - after all, there isn't anyone else as knowledgeable about anything as he is.

 

[BenThereDoneThat]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

They've been there and done that........many times.

Why you gotta bring me into this? Why o Why? Jokeing..........

Tim

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

bb,

You've had five or six years of constantly (unsuccessfully) trying to prove your theories. Why do you think you can do it in five minutes?

I noticed "You're all being played for fools" has been deleted. That doesn't do much for your credibility.

Joe

well first off joe i did not delite the thread "your all being played for fools "

sorry it was not me this time ...

and second . i have not been trying to prove anything to any one .. when i do you will out right know it ...i know a lot of things i have said nothing about here on this site ...

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

BB, you listed many things why crimes and treasure sites go unsolved, however, you forgot to list the 'most important one', the investigator him / her self.

If the investigator has too many 'preconceived', incorrect ideas as to what happened, they can obviously lose the track of what actually happened.

We tend to fill in with possibly true, parallel data which may not have had anything to do with the project in hand, or accept incorrect data to reinforce our personal version.

This especially applies to the LDM, and it's principal, Waltz. . Most are attempting to psychoanalyze a partially understood character, and a very vague report on a possible valuable gold vein on the basis of various incomplete documents, some Gold specimens, and possible incorrect occurrences, it will never happen.

Relax, just go get your specimens, take photographs, and GPS readings, & bring them bk to have your moment at the camp fire.

Don Jose de La Mancha

the camp fire has nothing to do with it ,,,lol i wont be given anything away ...and i have no need to tell anyone where it is or give anyone a chance to follow me to the mine ...

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Relax, just go get your specimens, take photographs, and GPS readings, & bring them bk to have your moment at the camp fire.

RDT - that was my suggestion as well. From everything I've seen here over the years as well as the general demeanor of BB on TNet, it is quite literally the ONLY way I can foresee him getting the time of day from most people at the Rendezvous - he has zero credibility at this point.

i would rather have zero credibility and know where the mine is , then be there talking down at the man that dose ...

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Paul,

I have said I would not listen to bb for a minute at the Rendezvous. That, of course, is not true. I will listen to what he has to say, long enough to see if he will be saying anything different than what he has presented here, and to Scott.

If it's the same nonsense, it may very well be less than a minute. From what he said after sending you on that wild goose chase, which I believe you enjoyed, I don't believe he had ever been there. Over the years, he has shown a decided lack of knowledge about the mountains and the history of the area.

I suspect he will be hopelessly lost as soon as he leaves the maintained trails. That's why I hope someone will accompany him who has experience. I would not want to see him get into trouble in our mountains. I'm sure everyone knows what I mean. The Supe's can be a painful mistress, until you really get to know her.

bb,

If you make it to camp, please take the time and make the effort to listen to any advise some of the old timers might offer. They've been there and done that........many times.

See you in camp,

Joe

thats twice you have said that scott has shared infomation out side his office with you or others ,,i think that in it self creates mistrust in his ablities to do the job he was apointed to ....if scott is shareing infomation from premit request thats to others unrelated to the request , that is a out right conflect of interest and i will be takeing this up with the head office of the NFS ..


you can say what every you want joe its not going to matter at this point ..

i have a lot do and i am not willing to share anything what so ever with you at all joe , think what you want your just a waste of my time ...you just referting back to the same old joe trash talking makes you look like a two year old . i wont be part this

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

bb,

You've had five or six years of constantly (unsuccessfully) trying to prove your theories. Why do you think you can do it in five minutes?

I noticed "You're all being played for fools" has been deleted. That doesn't do much for your credibility.

Joe

well first off joe i did not delite the thread "your all being played for fools "

sorry it was not me this time ...

and second . i have not been trying to prove anything to any one .. when i do you will out right know it ...i know a lot of things i have said nothing about here on this site ...

Sorry bb,

You have deleted so much of your stuff, it seemed a good bet that was just one more. I went back and changed my post.

If you are not trying to convince/prove anything to anyone, what is the purpose of the last five or six years of your posting? Just passing time?

It seems to me that you are trying very hard to convince us that Waltz dictated his "will" to Dick Holmes while laying on his deathbed. Would you say that is not what you are doing? To do that, you would have to prove your theory.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

bb,

You've had five or six years of constantly (unsuccessfully) trying to prove your theories. Why do you think you can do it in five minutes?

I noticed "You're all being played for fools" has been deleted. That doesn't do much for your credibility.

Joe

well first off joe i did not delite the thread "your all being played for fools "

sorry it was not me this time ...

and second . i have not been trying to prove anything to any one .. when i do you will out right know it ...i know a lot of things i have said nothing about here on this site ...

Sorry bb,

You have deleted so much of your stuff, it seemed a good bet that was just one more. I went back and changed my post.

If you are not trying to convince/prove anything to anyone, what is the purpose of the last five or six years of your posting? Just passing time?

It seems to me that you are trying very hard to convince us that Waltz dictated his "will" to Dick Holmes while laying on his deathbed. Would you say that is not what you are doing? To do that, you would have to prove your theory.

Good luck,

Joe

thats what i like about you joe , you have no idea what is really going on ..


waltz wrote the will long before dick holmes ever saw it .. maybe weeks or months before his death .....i think he ever said anything to dick holmes at all if he did it was "get out "...

but i got things to do i am wireing in a back up light .. so later


joe ......i tryed to get you to let up some before i get to the Rendenzous . your still enjoying all the fun but that fun is going to end like a train derailment ... remember i said so joe ..latter

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

sorry joe i want to make sure this post is not delited or changed ...


Paul,

I have said I would not listen to bb for a minute at the Rendezvous. That, of course, is not true. I will listen to what he has to say, long enough to see if he will be saying anything different than what he has presented here, and to Scott.

If it's the same nonsense, it may very well be less than a minute. From what he said after sending you on that wild goose chase, which I believe you enjoyed, I don't believe he had ever been there. Over the years, he has shown a decided lack of knowledge about the mountains and the history of the area.

I suspect he will be hopelessly lost as soon as he leaves the maintained trails. That's why I hope someone will accompany him who has experience. I would not want to see him get into trouble in our mountains. I'm sure everyone knows what I mean. The Supe's can be a painful mistress, until you really get to know her.

bb,

If you make it to camp, please take the time and make the effort to listen to any advise some of the old timers might offer. They've been there and done that........many times.

See you in camp,