The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

cactusjumper,
Yes. This story has many unexpected turns and "half-truths" and deception seems to surround the "Peralta" stones. I am unfortunately gravitating to the idea that the stones were made perhaps no more than twenty years before their discovery date of 1949 (if indeed this is the actual date). But the encrypted narrative of the stones and the locations they represent have a history that is much older.

Travis Tumlinson needs to be looked at again. Anyone know about Travis's social associations... education, church, military, clubs?
If Travis carved the stones he:
... transcribed images from a master map that he could not understand, or
... used an aerial photograph to map known mining locations. This is doubtful since it is known that Travis struggled to read the stones, or
... Travis was executing a hoax.

My best guess is that if Travis carved the stones, he used a master map... only he could not read it. So, where is this master map and how did Travis get his hands on it? The master map that Travis must have traced was made with an aerial photograph. A topographic map is just not detailed enough to conceive the images seen on the stones. So, that means that the earliest the stones could have been made was 1839-40. If you accept the historical record the date for a possible aerial photograph is pushed to 1860. Aerial photography via airplane pushes the date to after 1903, but realistically after 1930. This means that there was a period of app. twenty years before Travis's "discovery" for SOMEONE to create the master map.... or even the stones themselves.

Hal,

Many of the details that can't be seen from a topographic map, or even an aerial photograph, could easily be supplied by someone who lived in the Superstitions and hiked or rode them on a regular basis over the years.

Often, the simplest answer is the right one. Sometimes it's overlooked by those with too much intelligence or imagination.

Good luck,

Joe

 

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[Hal Croves]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

cactusjumper,
I can not speak to intelligence, however imagination... well one can never have too much. The ability to see and reason beyond ones experience. Juggling several ideas at once.
And I am not sure that anything about the stones is simple.
Travis was certainly not a "simple" man who simply found a collection of stone charts.
Impossible odds... the grandson of a treasure hunter accidentally finding these stones.

My advice for those researchers who will listen is to consider whatever you hear or read about the stone charts as a half-truth.
On either side of the argument.

 

[EE THr]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

From what I've read on this forum, there are several things which are suspect concerning Travis Tumlinson and the discovery of the Stones. I have not confirmed the accuracy of what I have read, however.

1. His father is said to have been a treasure hunter.

2. He did make several other stone carvings, himself.

3. It is claimed that he was hiking around the Supers extensively, after "finding" the Stones. And possibly before finding them, seeing that his dad was a hunter.


Some have suggested that his father "borrowed" the Stones from an original hiding place, and Travis faked his discovery in order to legitimize his possession of them.

But why would anyone ever make something with a high probability of value, like authentic stone maps, public? And further, if they were authentic (to be used for finding a treasure), then why didn't they find it? And if they did find it, where is the evidence of the wealth?


Currently, I'm favoring the position that Travis was hunting for the LDM, and didn't want to be followed, so he made fake Stone maps in hopes that others would focus their attention on them, and not on his searches in the Supers.

If Travis actually had a "master map," why would he need to make heavy Stone maps? If he wanted a copy to take with him on his outings, stone would not be the material to carry along for that. If he wanted to have a strong, permanent, copy of the master, then photo copies or accurate hand drawn versions could be tucked away in a safe deposit box or two. And a small version would be much easier to carry with him in the field. The only thing that Stone copies would achieve is to make something which would be a burden, in terms of hiding them, or anything else. They would serve no purpose that I can think of---except to draw attention away from his real target area.


Although he didn't "publicize" having the Stone maps, right away, it seems that some people close to him were aware of them, and maybe that's who he originally wanted to fool the most. Too many partners? Maybe some disagreements? Maybe some distrust?

And later, the Stones went through all the private, corporate, and public contortions of which we are now aware of. Whether the Stones served a purpose for anyone after they "got loose" from his original possession, or they just "rode along" with whatever was happening at those times, seems to be uncertain. And maybe it doesn't really matter, at that point.


It just seems to me that too many things just don't jell, about the Stones being "very complex." I simply don't see where any of that could possibly lead. There seem to be too many speculated directions in which the ideas of "complexity" could go. And there are too many dead ends in all of those directions, so far, with no light at the end of any of those tunnels in sight.






P.S. All this, in light of the fact that the Stone Map trail does exist. Someone involved did have experience with the Supers.

 

[Springfield]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

..... But why would anyone ever make something with a high probability of value, like authentic stone maps, public? .....

It defies a fundamental human instinct - greed; the very act itself ought to raise a monster red flag.

 

[sgtfda]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Very good EE! Makes sense.

 

[Hal Croves]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

The problem with the idea of Travis making the stones simply to distract people from his search for the Dutchman is that the effort failed to lure people away from the Superstitions. If Travis was controlling treasure hunters with the stones, why didn't he lure people away from his search area.. outside of the SWA?

If Travis did carve the images on the chimney and the ship stone, then it makes sense that he might have transcribed an important discovery into stone. An artists attempt to understanding a thing and to preserve information for the long haul. They (the stones) have outlasted Travis. The stones would have been difficult to steal and I doubt that they were made to haul around the Superstitions.

What about the story that was told about the stones being stolen? I am still searching for a Tumlinson connection if I can ever find the story in full.
Before 1949 were aerial photographs available to the general public?

 

[sgtfda]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Perhaps it is outside the SWA

 

[EE THr]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Perhaps it is outside the SWA

That's a possibility. It has been said that Jake was seen North of the Salt River, at some point. And others have suggested a few places other than the Superstitions.

Maybe Travis made it match what he and his dad already knew was in the supers, because that's what they were familiar with, and there were many convincing man-made landmarks there. And maybe he figured that not enough people would believe that the LDM was not in the SWA vicinity.

Additionally, it would provide a good excuse to those who knew that he was puttering around in that range, either friends, family, or partners.

I guess it boils down to if they are "real" or not. If they aren't real, then they are a hoax. Maybe there is a third possibility, but I don't see any beyond those two choices, at this time.

So that leaves the logic of "If they are not real, then who made them, and why?" My suggestions about Travis, and why he would have made them, seem to be the only concept that sort of fits together with what little is really known about him and the Stones, I think.

Right now, it looks like all the other possibilities, like I said before, just don't seem to me to float.

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Gentlemen,

There are just to many coincidences for these maps to relate to something outside the Superstitions.

Once more, I give you this glaring coincidence from Tom Kollenborn's "Superstition Mountain: A Ride Through Time", page 126 : "Perhaps one of Chuck Aylor's favorite quotes best describes the Aylors and their quest for gold in the Superstition Mountains: "You would play upon me; you would seem to know my stops; you would pluck out the heart of my mystery; you would sound me from my lowest note to the top of my compass." Hamlet Act 3, Scene 2

Chuck loved Shakespear and would often "quote(s) Hamlet's solioquy without missing a word".
Another quote from "....A Ride Through Time".

Since Chuck and Peggy were smack dab in the middle of the Stone Map Trail, as it's shown on my map, it's just a bit to much. Just a short ride south out of Caballo Camp, and they are at the end of the Stone Map Trail and looking at the heart.

Joe

 

[EE THr]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Joe---

I'm confident that the Stone Map(s) Trail is in the Superstitions.

But since I have not seen the LDM, I can't argue that it is also in the Supes.



However, I think it is. 8)

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

EE,

Because of the story that both Julia and Rhiney told Jim Bark, I would say that the "best evidence" makes it a pretty good bet that the LDM, if it exists, is in the Superstitions.

Joe

 

[Hal Croves]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

I am 100% certain that the stones are no hoax and that they represent locations in the SWA. My understanding of the stone maps is correct, but then again Joe's map and a few other solutions might make the same claims... well, one less since the rendezvous. What we need is one map featuring the many different solutions to the trail map... for a comparison. I will work on something and post this weekend if there are no objections.

The most important question believers must ask is this: are there precious mineral deposits within the Superstition Wilderness Area? The official Government's position is absolutely not, no gold/silver/plat deposits in the SWA and JSWoods has confirmed this in writing. Well, honestly that question for me has now been resolved both scientifically and objectively. Sampling from several locations indicate a strong foundation for the many stories that have emerge from the Superstitions. So, what do these results indicate?... lots of silver, some gold and a little plat, all in locations that compliment my placement of the stones.
We are getting closer to the truth.

I have never been too concerned about the DLM, but the Haywood story and a cave off gold bars...now they are something to consider.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Hal: the Superstitions in themselves appear to be basically of Basalt. This in itself does not normally lead to comercial deposits of metal, but the many intrusions, faults, etc., that are found in there, certainly do. So yes, I personally believe that there must be many deposits of different metals in there. Go get em guy !

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Hal & Don Jose,

There are many gold deposits in association with Basalt in Arizona, I believe the Vulture mine is just one, as well as many other places in the world. I believe the combination is fairly common in Nevada and is often found in the Goldfield, Nevada workings.

Basalt does not, as I understand it, negate the presence of large deposits of gold.

One other theory that was written in stone, so to speak, was that surface ore would get richer with depth. Countless fortunes were spent and lost on this theory. The Bully Bueno mine in the Bradshaws in an excellent example of this fallacy. That belief was known as the extrusion theory.

Prior to 1850, this was accepted "fact". Between 1850-1890 the real facts began to surface, so to speak, and ore genesis became scientifically understood and accepted by prospectors as well as
the large mining concerns.

On the other hand, it is well known that I don't know $#!t about rocks, so all of the above could
very well be in error. It's the result of wasting my youth as a treasure hunter, instead of searching for mines.

Joe

 

[Hal Croves]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

cactusjumper,
With just a little time and effort anyone could walk away from the SWA with samplings that confirms the mineral potential. It makes me concerned about the official government position. Why the wilderness designation? Officially to manage & protect the endangered species and resources in the forest, but look at the record. 85% of foot traffic using 15% of the trails. Is that good management? A growing endangered species list. Is that ample protection? But they did manage to kill all hope of mining in the SWA. Again, I believe that this whole thing is about half-truths.

In the end, when the truth is known, I think that we will see a deliberate attempt by officials to mislead the public with the intentions of protecting the Superstitions.

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Hal,

I am not sure I'm ready to hang that chicken around the governments neck. Stepping away from the conspiricy theory a bit, it seems more likely that the formation of the Wilderness area was the result of observing the destruction of landmarks, like Weaver's Needle, Black Top Mesa and Bluff Spring Mountain.

While the work being done seemed to have little empact on those landmarks, when would someone be expected to step in an stop the destruction of such a beautiful national treasure?

Is it just another coincidence that my heart leans towards the west, just as it does on the Stone Maps?

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

One thing I was told at the Rendezvous, by a very well known Dutch Hunter, was that the Stone Maps were created by a local man and his wife......as a joke. Obviously, if true, it got out of hand.

That fits very well with the assumption that people who knew the Superstitions very well were needed to create such an accurate map.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

One place where Basalt runs through a historic mining area, is Eldorado Canyon in Nevada. One of the biggest producers of gold was the Techatticup Mine. While I hate to admit it, that brings us full circlel to Ben Davis and late 49er. Roy and Paul will recognize the names.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[EE THr]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

I remember reading on this forum about a U.S. mineral survey, which indicated extensive mineralization, including gold and silver, all over the Superstitions. It seems that it was not included in the official report about the SWA....

 

[rr-electricangel]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

My apologies for the interuption in topic everyone. I am not sure if I really need to create a new topic for this quick message. I just wanted to let everyone know that the Travel Channel just aired Ritches Etched In Stone on the episode "Eastland Disaster and Smuttynose Murders". It discusses the Peralta Stones and makes a possible connection with the Lost Dutchman Mine. It is only 2:49 long but very interesting. Some of the story seems different than what I read (in relation to Waltz and the way he aquires the mine). Anyway, enjoy...

Here's the link: http://www.travelchannel.com/Video/riches-etched-in-stone-16522