The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

[EE THr]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

I would put discovery of gold way ahead of solving a puzzle which, I think, has very little chance of being retrieved legally.

 

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[Blindbowman]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

BB, if you read Joe's posting carefully you will understand that he was quoting a posting I made about four years ago. Joe posted his trail map on another topic in this forum.

It is amazing that the Stone Maps can appear to apply to other areas. Some believe that they fit the area North of the Salt River. Another group claims that the river on the map is the Rio Grande.

The purpose of the Stone Maps has never been confirmed. Are they a waybill to the LDM? Do they point the way to a Church cache? Are they part of a puzzle of the burial of Ted DeGrazia's paintings? Were they planted to validate the 19th century claims of James Reavis, the Baron of Arizona? Are they a map to Peralta's mines?

A lot of effort went into the creation of the Stone Maps. Many on this board have opinions that are based on years of study and discussion. For me, any discovery or gold found is secondary to the challenge of solving the puzzle.

i leave to the Rendezous tomorrow after noon . and when get i do in fact plain to translate the stone correctly ...i dont think i am close i know i am .. they may look like they will fit a dozen or more location by as much as 60 % but they only in reality fit one location 100% ...thats where i am at ...lol


i agree with joe and a few others here on the site till something better comes around joes translation was as close as most could get to any real translation .. i just like solveing these types of logical puzzles .. i have done it most ofg my life . as a clocksmith its fun to see where all the parts go and how they are designed .....

no you will all enjoy the translations its about time some did solve the stones and explain how they do work .. ..

i dont think i have solve them i know for a fact i have ...see you all there ...

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

I would put discovery of gold way ahead of solving a puzzle which, I think, has very little chance of being retrieved legally.

Ditto to the words of wisdom here, and I would add that at this point it will take a major discovery of treasure and/or mines to prove the authenticity of the stones. Unless perhaps that cloth map were to show up, which seems unlikely.

Oroblanco

PS in case you didn't see this in another thread, have a safe trip BB and I hope you have good luck at the gem mines!

 

[somehiker]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Igadbois wrote

I thought the information about the carved sandstones found in the Tumlinson family cabin in New Mexico was interesting. A comparison of the stone materials used in the chimney with the material in the original Stone Maps might reveal that they were created by the Tumlinson family or someone known to them. Even if they created the Stone Maps, an original map may have been used as a source.

There was a mention of a CLOTH map that duplicated the stone maps, the size of a pillowcase if memory serves, in possession of Tumlinson; which was in a private letter but I cannot recall where I saw it. Is it possible that the cloth map may be the original, to which the stones were carved?
Oroblanco

I would put discovery of gold way ahead of solving a puzzle which, I think, has very little chance of being retrieved legally.

Ditto to the words of wisdom here, and I would add that at this point it will take a major discovery of treasure and/or mines to prove the authenticity of the stones. Unless perhaps that cloth map were to show up, which seems unlikely.

Oroblanco

Roy:
Re: the "CLOTH" map that you believe was mentioned.
What you are referring to,I suspect is this:

From the Mitchell-McGee correspondence of June 22/1965
posted on Gary and Carol Cundiff's Website.....http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb...ell-McGee Correspondence (Jan - Jun 1965).pdf

"Jack also showed us a perfect replica of maps on a white cloth about the size of a pillow case".

Regards:Wayne

PS: Also note that Grace Mitchell mentions having a copy of a photograph of the #2 and #3 stones against a board wall background.
I wonder if this photo was part the McGee collection ?
If so,why has it not been published?

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Wayne thank you that is it!

 

[somehiker]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

I suspect that Grace Mitchell,in describing these maps as "perfect replica",meant another set of stone maps placed on a white cloth.
This indicates to me that Tumlinson had in his possession a set of "perfect" replicas of at least the Trail Maps.
She also says that the photo of the stones against a tongue and groove board wall, which she has a copy of,was taken by "Jack" the finder-- (Tumlinson).

Regards:SH.

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

The letter does help affirm that a cloth map did exist though, which as far as I know has not turned up. Cloth would be much easier to get age estimates done on than any stone, and cloth treasure maps are certainly more common than stone. Easy to pack, easy to hide, even easy to destroy if necessary. I hope that cloth map turns up some day.

 

[EE THr]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

I suspect that Grace Mitchell,in describing these maps as "perfect replica",meant another set of stone maps placed on a white cloth. This indicates to me that Tumlinson had in his possession a set of "perfect" replicas of at least the Trail Maps.

She did write "a" perfect replica, rather than perfect replica"s."

It sounds like a map drawn on the cloth, to me.

 

[Blindbowman]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

i think your going to find out it was a sack the stones were in .... and the drawing on the stones was a placer map ...

 

[coazon de oro]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

The letter does help affirm that a cloth map did exist though, which as far as I know has not turned up. Cloth would be much easier to get age estimates done on than any stone, and cloth treasure maps are certainly more common than stone. Easy to pack, easy to hide, even easy to destroy if necessary. I hope that cloth map turns up some day.

Roy,

I believe that cloth map would not date further than 1949. It had to be made by Jack to take with him on his search in the mountains. He never claimed finding no cloth map.

Keeping a cloth, paper, or skin map would defeat the purpose of making the PSM's.

Homar

 

[somehiker]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

I suspect that Grace Mitchell,in describing these maps as "perfect replica",meant another set of stone maps placed on a white cloth. This indicates to me that Tumlinson had in his possession a set of "perfect" replicas of at least the Trail Maps.

She did write "a" perfect replica, rather than perfect replica"s."

It sounds like a map drawn on the cloth, to me.

If you read a few of Grace Mitchell's letters,you will notice her grammar and spelling are less than perfect.
A "perfect" Replica to me,means Identical.
As in made from stone.
A perfect replica of a cloth map would,of course be drawn on cloth.IMO

 

[EE THr]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

If you read a few of Grace Mitchell's letters,you will notice her grammar and spelling are less than perfect.
A "perfect" Replica to me,means Identical.
As in made from stone.
A perfect replica of a cloth map would,of course be drawn on cloth.IMO

No, I haven't read her other letters. That is a possibility.

If he was making replicas, he could be altering those replicas, too.

 

[coazon de oro]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Somehiker,

Grace wrote "a perfect replica of maps", which indicates more than one. You can only place one of those stones on a cloth the size of a pillow case, unless you stack them. This to me indicates that what Grace meant was that the stone maps were drawn in a smaller scale on a cloth the size of a pillow case with all the details of the original stone maps.

I don't think we will ever decipher what that woman was attempting to bring across.

Homar

 

[somehiker]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Homar:
A standard pillow case measures 20" x 30".
Plenty of space for both trail maps.

EE:
The subject of "altered" replicas has come up many times over the years.
It seems likely.
At the least quite possible if Tumlinson was afraid the stones might be stolen from him.
The Mineral museum had a second set of replicas,and a set of replicas has been on display at the SMM in the past as well.

Regards:SH.

 

[Oroblanco]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Coazon de Oro wrote

Roy,

I believe that cloth map would not date further than 1949. It had to be made by Jack to take with him on his search in the mountains. He never claimed finding no cloth map.

Keeping a cloth, paper, or skin map would defeat the purpose of making the PSM's.

Homar

I think it is possible that the cloth map was the original, and the stone maps carved by Tumlinson (who loved to carve Spanish-treasure theme stones) but of course without the cloth map it is impossible to say. However even if the cloth map were done as a copy of the stones, we could use it as a "snapshot" of what the trail stones looked like circa 1949, to compare to the stone tablets we can all see today to see if any modifications were done.

Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Hal,

[EE Thr & Joe,
You may find it helpful to look at the scale of your map. Compare your findings to the cartographic standards of the time... either the 1700's if you believe the charts to be Jesuit, or 1847 if you consider the Peralta story, or the early 1900's ie. - the Florence map, or something more recent......... Just a suggestion]

Don't know if I ever gave you a reply, but my map is......pretty much to scale and spatially correct.
In fact, I originally traced the Stone Maps Trail (from the book) and laid the lower map onto a topo'. It fit perfectly, including every turn on the trail.........dot for dot.

Later on, a cave was found at the first "X". In 2004, we found a sealed mine at the second "X" above West Boulder and just southeast of Willow Spring.

I would say it's a modern-day creation, drawn in conjunction with a topographic map. I am fairly certain there are people alive today who know exactly who was responsible for the maps.

Joe

 

[EE THr]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Although I have offered at least one suggestion of a different solution to the maps, I have to say that Joe's has by far the most matching points of any I have seen yet. Including similarities to the "Julia" maps, which also adds to my concurrence with his conclusion about the origin of the Stones.

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

EE,

Thank you for that endorsement of my map. Like you said, there are many other solutions but, like you, I believe mine is the most accurate. Over the years, many, many people have sent me their maps to offer an opinion on.

I like to think I keep an open mind and give each map a good look. Each and every time, I end up thinking my map has more matching points than any other. Each and every time, I realize that they think their map is the better match.

Few people, that I know of, have placed their maps and conclusions out there for peer review like I have. I have never been afraid of the abuse I would receive from those who thought my map was a joke. One well known Dutch Hunter and Stone Map "expert" said that very thing......more than once and publicly.

Of course, he could not produce his own map, even though I have known where he was working since 2002. That is, understandably, the usual case.

Once again, thank you for your comments.

Take care,

Joe

 

[EE THr]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

Joe---

No problem. I just calls 'em as I sees 'em.

I might add that you actually followed up on your theory, and have stuff to show for it, and have posted some photos of what you found. I'm not sure that anyone else has done the full spectrum on their versions, like you have. Good work (to put it lightly)!

And also thanks for being kind enough to share your results with the World. That is much appreciated, I'm sure, by all. To me, that puts you in a different class of people than most. Just sayin'....

 

[Hal Croves]

Re: The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

cactusjumper,
Yes. This story has many unexpected turns and "half-truths" and deception seems to surround the "Peralta" stones. I am unfortunately gravitating to the idea that the stones were made perhaps no more than twenty years before their discovery date of 1949 (if indeed this is the actual date). But the encrypted narrative of the stones and the locations they represent have a history that is much older.

Travis Tumlinson needs to be looked at again. Anyone know about Travis's social associations... education, church, military, clubs?
If Travis carved the stones he:
... transcribed images from a master map that he could not understand, or
... used an aerial photograph to map known mining locations. This is doubtful since it is known that Travis struggled to read the stones, or
... Travis was executing a hoax.

My best guess is that if Travis carved the stones, he used a master map... only he could not read it. So, where is this master map and how did Travis get his hands on it? The master map that Travis must have traced was made with an aerial photograph. A topographic map is just not detailed enough to conceive the images seen on the stones. So, that means that the earliest the stones could have been made was 1839-40. If you accept the historical record the date for a possible aerial photograph is pushed to 1860. Aerial photography via airplane pushes the date to after 1903, but realistically after 1930. This means that there was a period of app. twenty years before Travis's "discovery" for SOMEONE to create the master map.... or even the stones themselves.