The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

[azdave35]

Awww dave......don'tcha know I love you guys ?
Even the hairy-stinky ones. I also tell all my friends about youz
I tell them "bigfoot is real">>>>>> I shook hands with him.

Seriously though.
I've been flying down to Arizona two or three times a year since "95. Originally for a business trip, then sightseeing from the ground and air.
Been spending five to 15 days out in the mountains each time, but didn't get involved in searching for any evidence of truth in the "treasure" legends until 2010. All the while, i've made it a point to get to know as many people as possible, and to make friends with as many of those as would extend a welcoming hand. You can look back through my posts, where you will find that aside from the odd elbow to the ribs, usually in response to the same, I am very supportive of America and Americans, especially those from Arizona.

carrol and i usually show up at the rendezvous every year and will probably be there this year too..stop by and say hi

 

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[Cubfan64]

Awww dave......don'tcha know I love you guys ?
Even the hairy-stinky ones. I also tell all my friends about youz
I tell them "bigfoot is real">>>>>> I shook hands with him.

Seriously though.
I've been flying down to Arizona two or three times a year since "95. Originally for a business trip, then sightseeing from the ground and air.
Been spending five to 15 days out in the mountains each time, but didn't get involved in searching for any evidence of truth in the "treasure" legends until 2010. All the while, i've made it a point to get to know as many people as possible, and to make friends with as many of those as would extend a welcoming hand. You can look back through my posts, where you will find that aside from the odd elbow to the ribs, usually in response to the same, I am very supportive of America and Americans, especially those from Arizona.

I still think back to the time I met you up at the gate to the Horse Mesa SRP "village." That was the craziest coincidence that I just happened to try to explore down Fish Creek Canyon all the way to the bridge only to be stopped by water up to my chest and knowing I was going to drown by slipping on a rock if I kept on going. I climbed up the side of the bank to the road and hiked it all the way up to the gate drenched almost from head to toe wearing my bulky overalls with the water squishing in my boots. I probably would have gotten killed by some car or truck trying to hike down the Apache Trail to Fish Creek where I had parked my car. Here I come staggering past the gate and I see this old skinny guy sitting in the shade beside the road and it turned out to be you .

It was a good way to meet you and I really enjoyed the few hikes we made after that. I should have kept up with your exploits but those damn stones got in your head and I just couldn't get into it . It's always good to see you each year despite that. Oh, and hey I'm finally making some progress losing weight so I may be able to do a little more exploring one of these years. I got on the scale and saw 186 a month ago and decided I didn't ever want to see 190 - I'm down to 164 today and hoping to reach <150 by November - I haven't weighed that since high school so hopefully it'll take some strain off my knees and give me a few more years of hiking .

Take care Wayne

 

[somehiker]

carrol and i usually show up at the rendezvous every year and will probably be there this year too..stop by and say hi

I'll try to make it happen. Was only there for a couple of hours last year, mostly taken up by the presentations.
So, other than those who greeted me when I did show up,just prior to that, I didn't get to talk to more than four or five other attendees.
Used to come for both Fri and Sat, but have been spending more of both days out in the mountains these last 3 or 4 years.

 

[Cubfan64]

I'll try to make it happen. Was only there for a couple of hours last year, mostly taken up by the presentations.
So, other than those who greeted me when I did show up,just prior to that, I didn't get to talk to more than four or five other attendees.
Used to come for both Fri and Sat, but have been spending more of both days out in the mountains these last 3 or 4 years.

The Rendezvous doesn't have the same feel to it that it did 4+ years ago - hard to pinpoint why, it just doesn't feel the same is all but it may just be me. The few days we get a year to hike and explore out there, it's tough to spend 2 of them not in the mountains proper

 

[somehiker]

I still think back to the time I met you up at the gate to the Horse Mesa SRP "village." That was the craziest coincidence that I just happened to try to explore down Fish Creek Canyon all the way to the bridge only to be stopped by water up to my chest and knowing I was going to drown by slipping on a rock if I kept on going. I climbed up the side of the bank to the road and hiked it all the way up to the gate drenched almost from head to toe wearing my bulky overalls with the water squishing in my boots. I probably would have gotten killed by some car or truck trying to hike down the Apache Trail to Fish Creek where I had parked my car. Here I come staggering past the gate and I see this old skinny guy sitting in the shade beside the road and it turned out to be you .

It was a good way to meet you and I really enjoyed the few hikes we made after that. I should have kept up with your exploits but those damn stones got in your head and I just couldn't get into it . It's always good to see you each year despite that. Oh, and hey I'm finally making some progress losing weight so I may be able to do a little more exploring one of these years. I got on the scale and saw 186 a month ago and decided I didn't ever want to see 190 - I'm down to 164 today and hoping to reach <150 by November - I haven't weighed that since high school so hopefully it'll take some strain off my knees and give me a few more years of hiking .

Take care Wayne

"skinny old guy"......haha
Not really a co-incidence, since you had mentioned in a post that you intended to do the lower part of Fish Creek somewhere around then. I had already planned to do some exploring in the same area, only much higher. So when I spotted a lonely figure down in the creek bed at the narrows, I figured I'd wait when I got back down to the road, and see if it was you. But very few hike....and/or swim that canyon.
I hadn't waited long, since I had a bit further to go...but all downhill, as you had to go....all uphill.
That actually, was the first year (4th I think) that I scheduled my trip around the Rendezvous, so I would be able to attend. Only missed one since then.

 

[somehiker]

The Rendezvous doesn't have the same feel to it that it did 4+ years ago - hard to pinpoint why, it just doesn't feel the same is all but it may just be me. The few days we get a year to hike and explore out there, it's tough to spend 2 of them not in the mountains proper

Basically, what I was getting at. As much as I enjoy the chance for face to face get-togethers like the annual meet and greet, and all the stories I'm sure I'm missing, I can usually only swing a 7 day stretch of vacation in the fall. If I'm really deep into something out there, even if it ain't Waltz's mine, it's difficult to get away from that as well, and often dark before I even get out.

 

[sgtfda]

Wayne is a true stoner. So tell me Wayne how do the Stones Charlie found south of the border fit into all this?

 

[somehiker]

Wayne is a true stoner. So tell me Wayne how do the Stones Charlie found south of the border fit into all this?

Charlie finding them south of the border is news to me. But I'd say that, if fact, would make it more difficult to link them to the Sups, than the "museum" stones, which have been declared as something other than ..... ?..... but were said to have been found somewhere at the south end of the range.
I'll have to see the actual stones, or at least some hi rez shots of them, before I can give any kind of opinion. Likewise, the story of who,how, where and why.
That story has been very lean, since it was introduced on another thread some years ago. And the Grijalva family name, going way back, and possible or apparent links to the Sups, points north and south, and both the LDM and stone maps/or stone maps can be found on this and other sites, dating back to at least 2004.
Not hard to find the info with the right keyword search.

"stoner" ?
Can't see that there's much to be gained any more in trying to prove artifacts which may have been found out there have anything to do with Travis or his stuff.
Might be best to let that sleeping dog lie where it's said to be. However, I'm not saying I no longer have any interest from a general historical standpoint.
But now I'm working with different information. Same but larger area, just different and academically accepted and dated materials.....mostly.
But also more of a challenge and time consuming. I'd be more inclined to credit and show how those things made it all possible.

 

[sgtfda]

Hmmm! Wonder why Travis wanted them so bad?

 

[somehiker]

Seems obvious that he thought the stone maps in question would help him with his search for whatever he was looking for, even though he apparently already had the ground and barn maps to go by. After all, eight grand would have been enough to buy a house or three decent cars back then.
How do we know (for certain) which stone maps he was talking about.
The stones that the family, different members on more than one occasion, said that they saw him caring himself.
And which they all described as small and all grey in color.
Perhaps it was the ship and treasure chest stones ? Although I wouldn't consider those to be maps myself, others might argue that.
Gary had insisted that they were on two different stones, although I had thought it looked like two sides of the same stone to me.
The family said he also carved those.....but, who really knows anymore.
Be that as it may, the writer calls what he's after "a complete collection". Which could apply to the smaller stones now being discussed.
Or even to the Stone Maps which have carried this legend to date.
Any of this jibe with what you or others know or are supposing.

 

[azdave35]

Seems obvious that he thought the stone maps in question would help him with his search for whatever he was looking for, even though he apparently already had the ground and barn maps to go by. After all, eight grand would have been enough to buy a house or three decent cars back then.
How do we know (for certain) which stone maps he was talking about.
The stones that the family, different members on more than one occasion, said that they saw him caring himself.
And which they all described as small and all grey in color.
Perhaps it was the ship and treasure chest stones ? Although I wouldn't consider those to be maps myself, others might argue that.
Gary had insisted that they were on two different stones, although I had thought it looked like two sides of the same stone to me.
The family said he also carved those.....but, who really knows anymore.
Be that as it may, the writer calls what he's after "a complete collection". Which could apply to the smaller stones now being discussed.
Or even to the Stone Maps which have carried this legend to date.
Any of this jibe with what you or others know or are supposing.

another twist for you stone map fellers..supposedly travis copied from the ground and barn map to make the stone maps...what if those 2 maps were fake also...something to think about

 

[markmar]

Dave

Your treasure cave across the Dons Camp , brings me back to Bob Ward era . NP stated in one of his posts , how together with Bob , hid in a well east from that cave , a stone map with a star chart . I don't know how Bob and NP came to possess that stone map , but I am about 90% was what Grijalva carried from Sonora in the RG story . Is interesting how the maps change hands , leading the quests and the stories to new perspectives .
Another interesting part of this stone map story , is how NP knew the region which should be applied , maybe possessing another info which its not yet revealed .

 

[somehiker]

another twist for you stone map fellers..supposedly travis copied from the ground and barn map to make the stone maps...what if those 2 maps were fake also...something to think about

I've given that possibility some thought as well, dave. Given Travis' artistic prowess, it remains a possibility IMO. Especially if the maps cannot be produced for authentication.
Those two maps are central to much of the current narrative about the hunt for treasure in the Superstitions by Travis and his various partners over the years. Photos....even hi res may not be enough, given the doubt expressed by many as to the veracity of the Latin Heart and Stone Crosses, due in part to them being unavailable for examination and testing by experts in the proper fields....as was done by DA Inc. with the other stones. In fact, it might even be possible to talk DA Inc. into a pro gratis assessment, since they are already involved in the historical telling of this subject. They wouldn't have to be shown in the report IMO, or any magazine article published, for myself and others to accept the findings, once shared.

 

[sdcfia]

another twist for you stone map fellers..supposedly travis copied from the ground and barn map to make the stone maps...what if those 2 maps were fake also...something to think about

That takes one back to Pegleg, doesn't it? Dobie notwithstanding, a very thorough examination of his past deeds and associates, if possible, might get to the crux of the whole matter. I'd rather peek into his footlocker than Travis's - might show a bigger picture of things.

 

[OldManOfTheRiver]

And which they all described as small and all grey in color.

The only reason the first ones were grey is that color television hadn't been invented yet. Everyone knows the world was black and white up until the mid '60's.

 

[azdave35]

Dave

Your treasure cave across the Dons Camp , brings me back to Bob Ward era . NP stated in one of his posts , how together with Bob , hid in a well east from that cave , a stone map with a star chart . I don't know how Bob and NP came to possess that stone map , but I am about 90% was what Grijalva carried from Sonora in the RG story . Is interesting how the maps change hands , leading the quests and the stories to new perspectives .
Another interesting part of this stone map story , is how NP knew the region which should be applied , maybe possessing another info which its not yet revealed .

marius..i was corresponding with np a few years ago when he was posting about the flooded mine shaft with the map in it...he said it was in a shaft so many foot from the decook cabin (where bob was living)....a friend of mine was out there with bob in the 80's and knew bob well...i got together with him and 2 other guys and went to the area..there are a couple of shallow shafts there..we dug on one of them for a day..we couldn't find any evidence of it ever being very deep or flooded

 

[azdave35]

Dave

Your treasure cave across the Dons Camp , brings me back to Bob Ward era . NP stated in one of his posts , how together with Bob , hid in a well east from that cave , a stone map with a star chart . I don't know how Bob and NP came to possess that stone map , but I am about 90% was what Grijalva carried from Sonora in the RG story . Is interesting how the maps change hands , leading the quests and the stories to new perspectives .
Another interesting part of this stone map story , is how NP knew the region which should be applied , maybe possessing another info which its not yet revealed .

marius...bob also said that he had found a cave he called the blunderbuss cave in the same area..he claimed inside the cave was a big table carved from stone..he called it a desk...also in the cave were spanish armor..weapons and a blunderbuss

 

[Cubfan64]

marius...bob also said that he had found a cave he called the blunderbuss cave in the same area..he claimed inside the cave was a big table carved from stone..he called it a desk...also in the cave were spanish armor..weapons and a blunderbuss

That sounds like the Rick Gwynne and Salvador story they were talking about at the Rendezvouse last year - at least Sal was talking about it a lot. Wasn't there supposed to be yet another film coming out about that?

 

[somehiker]

Are you thinking of the announcement of another documentary the poster had said was gong to be televised this year ?
It was supposed to feature Gwynn and a few other LDM hunters, as well as Wayne and Frank ?
I haven't seen anything since.

 

[markmar]

marius..i was corresponding with np a few years ago when he was posting about the flooded mine shaft with the map in it...he said it was in a shaft so many foot from the decook cabin (where bob was living)....a friend of mine was out there with bob in the 80's and knew bob well...i got together with him and 2 other guys and went to the area..there are a couple of shallow shafts there..we dug on one of them for a day..we couldn't find any evidence of it ever being very deep or flooded

Is somewhere there behind the fence .