The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

OldManOfTheRiver said:
Uhm Old,

The burden of evidence is on you and your cohort. Exceptional claims require exceptional evidence. That's how it works isn't it?
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I have to admit after the first post on the other forum, the phrase "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" is the first one that popped into my head too. In light of that, I'm willing to keep an open mind and reserve judgment until I see the full story and listen to the dialogue that it will surely raise.

If nothing else, this is portion of the Stone Map history that's new to all of us (I assume?) and since we sometimes go years or decades without new information, it's certainly interesting and worth listening to.
 

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OldManOfTheRiver said:
Old,

"To each his own in that quest. We knew the "rocks" and other maps did lead to identifiable sites. They aren't random doodles. That's the genesis of "the story"."

Circular logic again. Modern forgeries are just that. The stones are likely interpretations of "modern", <150 year old maps. You can take the Peralta Miller-Tumlinson Stones and pretty much make them work in many, many places in the Superstitions.

To say that the stones are fake or modern but the data contained within is genuine is pretty darn cheeky if you ask me. Like saying bootleg movie downloaded off a torrent site has the same quality as a true purchased release. It's actually far worse than that considering there is no way to verify anything you guys are saying other than "the maps do lead somewhere and aren't accidental".

I'll give you that maybe you guys did find something, but whatever it was or wasn't, it wasn't compelling enough for a TV series or a show. So it can't be that big of a find. Furthermore if it led to a treasure and/or theft I am quite certain someone like National Geographic would absolutely love to have the publishing rights. Any researcher worth their salt knows that to truly be accepted in the realm of rigorous science is to be published. Not in a blog or on a forum but in a journal that is peer reviewed. Otherwise this whole thing is just more he/said she said stuff.

I too would like to see what was truly sent as an offer. Your image is cropped and it's almost laughable that Travis sent a telegram in the TELEPHONE age.......
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i've been a treasure hunter / miner for a long time...and in that time i have known alot of old timers and had the opportunity to go through their documents/writings after they passed away...these people grew up during the depression and didn't have much education..so they wern't authors or writers....they all kept records or journals (if you could call it that lol)...mainly just a bunch or random thoughts they wrote down as they came into their head...alot of what they wrote was done so in a drunken stupor so it makes no sense to anyone but them..sometimes they wrote down false info meant to crap on certain family members or partners to send them on a wild goose chase...and these writings were done over decades and usually not in any kind of order...so if you guys are thinking travis's writings are going to lead you to a big treasure you are in for a let down...but if you listen and analyze you might get something usable out of it...i think mainly it will help clear up some of the history
 

After many years of walking the Stone Map Trail, I believe they are an accurate reverse engineered map of the western end of the Superstition Mountains. Most anyone very familiar with the range could do the same thing.

Don't believe I have ever wasted a single moment following that trail. Lots of adventures with some very good people by my side.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo
 

yes old man of the river, I'll have one,please hold the suger. I posted the Rivas thing as a possible lead, not to my belief. Since no agreement has been reached, my wild theory, which at the moment, is as valid as the Travis stonie
 

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I'll put a fresh pot on Real.

You and all you folks are the reason I finally joined this forum after years of reading your discussions. And Old, I appreciate at least you folks coming forward with any new information. It's frustrating but fun. :)

It still seems to me that the Stones accomplished 4 out of 5 things and almost accomplished being a TV show but failed again. Oh well. I can send you something Real that is modern and this guy was within 1000 feet of where I am going. It didn't end well. He required a chopper pick up.

We all have our theories. At least they are providing some good reading while summer trudges on.

:coffee2:
 

Reflections..............

Many of you are looking for a villain to blame. Blame for whatever, belief in things long held now shown to be untrue (or half true). Things, assumed based on false assumptions, the loss (or vindication) of a favored theory. The unfairness of monetary gain based on a mostly false narrative. Pick a sin. Understandable. Its human nature to do so.

What I’m asking you to do is put that aside for a minute and look at what really happened and who did it.

If you died tonight and your executor went through your file cabinets I’d bet big bucks there would be maps and drawings MANY of which would be tracings or copies taken from earlier drawings. If your executor, through ignorance of their origin, or less scrupulous motive, sold them, advertised them as something they weren’t; is that your sin? I don’t think so.

I’ve asked you to consider before; Travis is not wholly saint nor sinner. He’s some of both. He was human just like people are today.

He had a want and a desire to pursue a pastime that he loved doing. He shared it with those he loved and those he trusted. Some broke that trust and he cut them out of his life. Such was the case with his uncle Bob.

He had a rough start in life. As a young adult he stole some chickens. He got caught, he did his time. He stole a car (today that would be plead down to unauthorized use) and he got caught and did his time. Escaped, but went back voluntarily and did his time. He paid his dues and made a better person of himself. So much so he received a full pardon for his indiscretions. Ironically; he served the latter part of his life as a law enforcement official.

He had a flare for artistic expression and it shows in his writings and his stone work. He doggedly pursued both. Whatever “hoax” was perpetrated based on those writings and stone work were not done by Travis.

Show me one, just one, person he ever hoaxed, extorted, or conned in his lifetime. Tell me that story. I’ve not heard it.

Who is your real villain here? You have an assortment, but none of them are Travis Tumlinson.

Lyn
 

Lyn,

If one follows the numbers above to their logical conclusion, they appear to corroborate the information as told in the story...my question is, was this information critical to the timeline as you saw it, or did you have additional evidence of telegrams...if this will be addressed later, just ignore it...thanks, Jim
 

Hey Jim,

To be honest, brutally honest. When we unearthed the draft of the telegram it up ended us all to the point of nausea. It changed everything. I suppose we all sorta looked like wounded deer in the headlights at that point.

At that point in time we all "assumed" Grandfather - Peg Leg was the source of maps. We hadn't validated that - but we naively thought that was the direction it was headed.

But; its unearthing drove us to reconsider, back up, and strike a new path. A longer, more difficult path. In the long run (I believe) that was the start of finding the right path.

To answer your direct question the numbers on the wire instructions appeared (to me) to just be a rough count of the line costs to send the message. I didn't take it any further than that. You may be onto an important factor I hadn't considered. Good thought!!

The only other incident of "telegram" appears to be family related and of no relevance to the subject at hand.

Lyn
 

Lyn,

Ok, thanks for your response. The only thing I would say is they are written in a manner suggesting this is for a collect telegram he received. Here's why, hope this makes sense:

If it were for a telegram he was sending, he would have written it as:
5.28
.81
6.09

6.09
.81
5.28

And that's not what he wrote. So it appears, he had paid 5.28, but was presented with a bill for 6.09. So he subtracts 5.28 from 6.09 and gets .81 cents as what he owes. Then, he checks his math by adding .81 cents to 5.28, and verifies it does indeed equal 6.09. So he owes .81 cents:

6.09
5.28
.81
5.28
6.09

So I guess what I'm saying, it probably reflects he was paying for a collect telegram, not adding up line costs for a telegram he sent...hope that makes sense...
Probably doesn't matter, but it was just something I noticed. Take care, Jim
 

Good job Jim,

If he received the collect reply, we don't have it. Some how, some way the transaction was completed.

I dread to tell you this.............much information was lost for all time. Most of the boxed information came from an off site storage unit. Originally there was more than one unit. Two (I think, maybe three). The contents of all but this one was lost after Janie's death. Some sort of mix up on payment and not knowing how many there were. Whatever was in the other(s) probably was auctioned or cleaned out and dumped for re-rental of the unit(s). I shudder to think what might be at the bottom of the landfill.
 

How are we sure he wasn't writing down a received message?
 

oops fat fingered that one.

To finish my post

Maybe he was figuring out the tip to leave for lunch

5.28 x 1.15 = 6.07
 

>>>>>>>How are we sure he wasn't writing down a received message? <<<<<<

Captain, I wanted to hold on to that so bad.......but had to let it go and come to terms with it.

The reason I know its something he was sending is because he made a couple of starts as drafts and lined through them. That's what's on the backside (or next sheet). I don't have those photos. The end result was where we concentrated.

lyn
 

When /if the puzzle is complete it will look more one dimensional.
For now , or as it's been , each piece has multiple-sides.

We'll see how pieces were fit by which side of them soon enough.

The backtracking Travis and more by R.G. &Co. has presented certain sides to use face up. Beats the heck out of my rawhide mallet approach to fitting them....
 

RC, may I borrow that mallet?.......<g>
 

Old said:
RC, may I borrow that mallet?.......<g>
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Certainly you may. And it's well broken in.
The now thin and "slightly" misshapened puzzle pieces are no longer of any help ,and I'm tired of pounding anyways.
 

Old said:
Captain, I wanted to hold on to that so bad.......but had to let it go and come to terms with it.
Click to expand...

Curious: why were you and RG so desperate to hold on the notion that TT was the finder of those Stone Maps rather than a buyer? The way you describe it, it seems like the discovery of that "telegram" was a punch to the guts, for you guys. I'm not sure I understand why that would be so..? What harm does that do- that TT turns out to be a buyer, not a finder?
 

deducer said:
Curious: why were you and RG so desperate to hold on the notion that TT was the finder of those Stone Maps rather than a buyer? The way you describe it, it seems like the discovery of that "telegram" was a punch to the guts, for you guys. I'm not sure I understand why that would be so..? What harm does that do- that TT turns out to be a buyer, not a finder?
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it sounds like they are not really sure how travis got the stones...could be either way
 

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