The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

[OldManOfTheRiver]

Good morning River,

This is a vicious cycle. I'm going to bow to your wishes on just this one instance to show you what we say has credibility. But.......I want you to know none of us are under any obligation to prove anything to anybody. We do so at our option. Ryan has not yet finished posting the story. He's told you he will post at the end what documents and pictures he is capable to produce. Cut the guy some slack. Wait a time of patience.

Here it is, copied below. The instructions with the cost scribbled at the top and the draft of the telegraph sent. The authenticity of it may not come through the fog of time for you. RG and I have had 3 years to become very familiar with Travis' handwriting and thought patterns. This one isolated document many not have the level of impact to you that it does to us. You are just going to have to give us the benefit of the doubt on some things. Or; just pass this by as not your cup of tea. But.........its extremely unfair to call our integrity into question until you have spent the same amount of time working with Travis' belongings as we have. Its perfectly acceptable to be skeptic. Calling us names is a little premature, I'd think.

It's also ironic that much of the "accepted" story is passed down from third and fourth hand sources with little to no authenticated source or trail of province. But; its accepted as gospel. Yet; we present to you the story, sources and time lines and we are chopped liver.... Its disheartening. So be it, nobody said this would be easy. Do with it what you will. The purpose of this is to introduce what we know into the public narrative, present where possible the evidence to support it, report to you where we draw conclusions based on our finding and separate them from the provable, factual evidence and let the chips fall where they may. We will have done justice to the story we know, correcting where possible misconceptions and furthered the quest for full truth on the subject. That's the motive. What you do with it is your choice.

I know, and I appreciate that some of what is being presented is WILDLY different than what has been the accepted narrative. I get that! I've been where you are. I've felt the confusion and I've felt the ..."well; if that's true, what CAN I believe".... I had weeks and months between discoveries to get comfortable and come to a place of peace with the information as it developed. I fully realize you (all of you) are getting it full on at warp speed. It can be overwhelming. I'm cutting you slack to make that same adjustments to the story as YOU find it acceptable.

View attachment 1612283

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So see did that hurt? So he offered to BUY the stones. Therefore he lied about finding them. Thank you.

 

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[sdcfia]

... I know, and I appreciate that some of what is being presented is WILDLY different than what has been the accepted narrative. I get that! I've been where you are. I've felt the confusion and I've felt the ..."well; if that's true, what CAN I believe".... I had weeks and months between discoveries to get comfortable and come to a place of peace with the information as it developed. I fully realize you (all of you) are getting it full on at warp speed. It can be overwhelming. I'm cutting you slack to make that same adjustments to the story as YOU find it acceptable.

The more I hear about this saga, the clearer it is that Tumlinson could not or would not keep his stories straight. When the contradictions come from the same source, Tumlinson, the choice isn't what to believe, but if any of it is reliable.

 

[azdave35]

The more I hear about this saga, the clearer it is that Tumlinson could not or would not keep his stories straight. When the contradictions come from the same source, Tumlinson, the choice isn't what to believe, but if any of it is reliable.

(deleted by mod-language) ....it is history ...might be a good idea to hear everything and then make your judgments

 

[OldManOfTheRiver]

Old,

I am not asking you to bow to anything. If he lied about finding the stones then how can you trust that this is legitimate? It is patently obvious and proven that the stones at the museum are frauds. It is patently obvious that the forger had a monetary interest in forging the stone(s). A true reason to create a fake stone would be to sell it and make a tidy profit. Perhaps the forger had already sold this stone. More likely is it never existed.

Perhaps the whole thing was a con and Travis fell for and then had to cover his tracks.


From DUSA:

Author:RG
"I mean that in the sense of how Travis received them. Originator is probably not the correct word choice – a better way of phrasing that would have been that Charlie Miller is the source where Travis would buy / obtain the Stone Maps"



Now we are still chasing ghosts except now the goalpost has been moved from Travis (who lied about finding them), to California where the fake stones were made. We have gone from having all the stones and now have one small grey one that has mysteriously and conveniently disappeared. If he lied about finding them in his own freaking book what else is fabricated? I'll tell you what I think. It was a scam, is a scam and remains a scam with lie upon compounded lie.

Three weeks ago you were saying the stones were legitimate. Then you began waffling on the five stones and hinting about one original grey stone which was not found by Travis and may have been conveniently destroyed.

Doesn't hold water. None of it. And if Travis would lie about finding them he'd lie about a lot more. Something to think about.

 

[azdave35]

Old,

I am not asking you to bow to anything. If he lied about finding the stones then how can you trust that this is legitimate? It is patently obvious and proven that the stones at the museum are frauds. It is patently obvious that the forger had a monetary interest in forging the stone(s). A true reason to create a fake stone would be to sell it and make a tidy profit. Perhaps the forger had already sold this stone. More likely is it never existed.

Perhaps the whole thing was a con and Travis fell for and then had to cover his tracks.


From DUSA:

Author:RG
"I mean that in the sense of how Travis received them. Originator is probably not the correct word choice – a better way of phrasing that would have been that Charlie Miller is the source where Travis would buy / obtain the Stone Maps"



Now we are still chasing ghosts except now the goalpost has been moved from Travis (who lied about finding them), to California where the fake stones were made. We have gone from having all the stones and now have one small grey one that has mysteriously and conveniently disappeared. If he lied about finding them in his own freaking book what else is fabricated? I'll tell you what I think. It was a scam, is a scam and remains a scam with lie upon compounded lie.

Three weeks ago you were saying the stones were legitimate. Then you began waffling on the five stones and hinting about one original grey stone which was not found by Travis and may have been conveniently destroyed.

Doesn't hold water. None of it. And if Travis would lie about finding them he'd lie about a lot more. Something to think about.

its all about the history..who cares about those silly stones...anyone that would waste their lives trying to figure out some silly carvings on stone maps deserves what they get...heartache and mysery

 

[PotBelly Jim]

(deleted by mod-language)....it is history ...might be a good idea to hear everything and then make your judgments

Yep. What Dave said.

 

[Old]

River,

You are jumping the gun again. Wait and hear the full story. Then form your opinions.

Its awfully hard to write 250 years of history in two days and relate to you why the past has relevance to the now. He's trying, but is a mammoth undertaking.

We are blessed or burdened (depending on your perspective) by looking at this in the long view. Recanting it sometimes we forget to or overlook a relevant part of the story that pulls it all together. In the days and weeks to come your questions and independent view will (most likely) prompt filling in those details if we have them. We have already admitted to you there are parts of the story were we can't find "evidence" to support how one gets from point C to point D. That will play out.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Old wrote:

"It's also ironic that much of the "accepted" story is passed down from third and fourth hand sources with little to no authenticated source or trail of province. But; its accepted as gospel. Yet; we present to you the story, sources and time lines and we are chopped liver.... Its disheartening."

Back in your cell, Copernicus!

Don't take it too seriously, every little aspect of this story is going to get picked apart, argued, etc. It's what happens here...but you seem outnumbered, no good press at all...so I will say the story so far has been well-written and entertaining...I'm sure I'm not the only one who has enjoyed it. Keep your chin up, Jim

 

[i am the horse]

fakes..
i knew it. glad i quit lookin after a couple months👍🏻

 

[i am the horse]

fakes..
i knew it. glad i quit lookin after a couple months👍🏻

yeah we did. stay off my account

 

[i am the horse]

yeah we did. stay off my account

kids stay off moms account. thank you or ya gettin an ass whoopin.

 

[Real of Tayopa]

s hiker, you are wrong, what does the corner have to do with his claim? This was only a subtle claim, not a formal claim. I have explained this in a previous post.

 

[Old]

Jim wrote: >>>Back in your cell, Copernicus! <<<

No joke! <g> Well, at least I'm not Giordano Bruno!!!!! Yet anyway.

Glad you are enjoying the story........more to come.

I have GOT to go to work.....be back with you later.

 

[OldManOfTheRiver]

The more I hear about this saga, the clearer it is that Tumlinson could not or would not keep his stories straight. When the contradictions come from the same source, Tumlinson, the choice isn't what to believe, but if any of it is reliable.

My point exactly. Believe (A) but wait (A) is fabrication so it's (B) but wait (B) is also not the truth. The truth is somewhere over there by (C) but you have to take it on faith because of all the other players and family members (D), (E), and (F) whom have told us that (C) is the real truth but we can't offer evidence because they held us to secrecy.

At least Lynda and company produced visual documentation that verifies that Travis lied and could not keep his story straight. And Lynda I am not piling on or trying to be argumentative. There are literally thousands of pages of he said/she saids on the three forums concerning the forgeries and people have spent years wasting time on them or worse getting killed in the Supes on a freaking fraud. I have no doubt the story is going to continue developing and I am enjoying it.

Sincerely,
Dusty

 

[Old]

Lets hit some bullet points..........

Travis never told you anything, Nutting, never. What he did was write a screen play which he hoped to sell to (I think, not going back to look) CBS. He bought, reproduced and enlarged maps he acquired. Parts he shared with some, parts he never shared outside his inner group. He spent 10 years trying his best, with his own money, to follow the maps. IMO, he died being unsuccessful in deciphering them. Anyone who has seen portions of his screen play and mistaken what they were really seeing should blame themselves. The truth was always there to discover.

Travis' uncle, Robert (Bob) Tumlinson told anyone and everyone anything they wanted to hear. Whatever it took to gather a crowd and buy a round of drinks most anywhere from Portland to Apache Junction.

Clarence Mitchell told and sold this story as far and wide as possible. How much truth he knew, I don't know. He hounded Travis' widow across several states and couldn't rest until he acquired the stones and exploited them.

The real story, the factual story, has been in Texas since 1962. The hype and the misconceptions come from Arizona, not Texas and not Travis.

 

[Azquester]

RG wrote this in his explanation of Travis's beginning stories.

Travis says in one of his daily journals that he found $26,000 chunks of “valuables” (he doesn’t say) from a bandit Cave near Tucson. Given the provenance of this episode, and the truth we have today , these were probably $26,000 dollar coins. Even at the lowest estimate — this would be equal to a very large pay day for Travis. This is a very substantial part of the tale — and will provide Travis money for life - pay for his camping in the Superstitions, as well as making many buys in land and securities that would be a large amount in todays money. Here's a link to the colossal cave robbery story:​

(These are not his exact words as he has copyright so the whole paragraph has been modified but basically says the same thing).

I replied if you read the story in the link RG provided in Travis's version of the story it doesn't hold water. The link shows the true story as compared to the made up story of $72,000 gold coins in Colossal cave near Tucson. This is a story I know about as I have searched for the answers myself from the location of the Train Heist at the original location of the Pantano Station up to colossal caves. I found artifacts that support the heist location. Most of the money was recovered according to Wells Fargo in the link he provided if he hasn't deleted that yet.

I posted that fact on DUSA and it was promptly deleted!

Is this what we can expect from RG when we point out the obvious lies in Travis's stories?
Old Habits tend to die hard!

 

[OldManOfTheRiver]

RG wrote this in his explanation of Travis's beginning stories.





(These are not his exact words as he has copyright so the whole paragraph has been modified but basically says the same thing).

I replied if you read the story in the link RG provided in Travis's version of the story it doesn't hold water. The link shows the true story as compared to the made up story of $72,000 gold coins in Colossal cave near Tucson. This is a story I know about as I have searched for the answers myself from the location of the Train Heist at the original location of the Pantano Station up to colossal caves. I found artifacts that support the heist location. Most of the money was recovered according to Wells Fargo in the link he provided if he hasn't deleted that yet.

I posted that fact on DUSA and it was promptly deleted!

Is this what we can expect from RG when we point out the obvious lies in Travis's stories?
Old Habits tend to die hard!

Did he just delete that? LOL! I just read it and almost screen shot it. I will be more vigilant from here on out.

Secondly Old,

For 50 years the Tumlinson Family allowed the press and everyone else to say that he found them whilst on vacation.....
Could have been easily straightened out that he BOUGHT them and didn't find them by his widow, himself or any member of his family.

 

[somehiker]

s hiker, you are wrong, what does the corner have to do with his claim? This was only a subtle claim, not a formal claim. I have explained this in a previous post.

I'm sure you have, Joe.
At least to your own satisfaction. IMO

 

[Old]

Oh come on guys..........can we PLEASE keep this on an adult level. Is that too much to ask?

There are no deletions. NONE.

The original RG post with the link still very much included as on Page 1, made on July 14, 2018 @11:04 AM.

Peligroza ......I assume that's you Bill, posted a rebuttal on Page 2 dated and timed July 16, 2018 @1:27 PM

RG.......replied to your post at 1:51 PM with a further reply at 2:27 which you ALL may find interesting......

All of that dialog (which is beneficial) is right where you put it. Nothing has changed.

Lets keep this going down the highway between the white lines on a civil level.....Please.

 

[OldManOfTheRiver]

I sincerely hope in this saga we can get to the bottom of how today in 2018 the wire offer is now made public and Travis didn't find the stones but rather was given them or shown one...

And yet his widow, Alleen sold them to a group for 1200.00 dollars on his passing. Surely she had the wire offer in her possession and had to know that the stones Mr. Tumlinson possessed were forgeries...

So did she sell them for 1200.00 to Moel Incorporated? What about the validation of the stones by a Professor Dana in Redlands, California even though a later examination by Desert Archaeology showed them to be fake......

What a twisted web we weave hombres...