The "Peralta" Stone Maps --- On Their Own

[Azquester]

Bill,
I am still laughing you old terrapin.

Hal,

Your the real monotypic genius on here once you came out of your malaclemy shell!

A real turtle dove that everyone either loves or simply mates.

Don't laugh to hard wouldn't want you popping a turtle head out of your britches. Just take it slow but please don't go and bury yourself in the sand again. We don't need any scrambled turtle eggs for breakfast. Not with out a side dish you old Ham.

 

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[Hal Croves]

Hal,

Your the real monotypic genius on here once you came out of your malaclemy shell!

A real turtle dove that everyone either loves or simply mates.

Don't laugh to hard wouldn't want you popping a turtle head out of your britches. Just take it slow but please don't go and bury yourself in the sand again. We don't need any scrambled turtle eggs for breakfast. Not with out a side dish you old Ham.

I will assume you mean hates otherwise, I would be dropping my britches every time I rounded a corner.
Yes, you are absolutely correct.
Polarizing I think.

I wanted to get your thoughts on what was posted on the other site, specifically the ground map. If it is a 400% enlargement of the traced original stones, I calculate their combined size to be something like 7" x 9" or approximately the size of an iPad. Obviously, this is just a guess.
If this is correct, the originals would be small enough to travel with. Have you ever heard of someone making a map that leads to yet another map, especially one that isn't part of some fix structure? It just seems strange.

Stranger still is the fact that so much seems based on a relatively small photograph of the ground map which, must contain some recognizable feature unique to Superstitions. Only one landmark comes to mind.

 

[somehiker]

How do you like this one? Wonder what he's peeking at up there above him?

View attachment 1256459

Probably lookin for a short cut to the finish line.

 

[somehiker]

What I meant was it's obviously a drawing for sale and not a true indication of Waltz's last words. If it was an indication she would have started looking from there instead of the other end of the range. She was not a Warlock....Just an Ice cream soda jerk.

The Turtles are real you have a nice one there. And it's good keeping your eyes open for anything with an open mind. Those gadgets can be used by airplane so no need to drag them along.

Keeping with an open mind that turtle has quite a phallus.

Must be looking at another one in H.E.A.T. Could be a big Hoe Down?

You should stay in state more often so you can find more stiff competition...with turtles that is.

As I've said on a number of occasions Bill, I'm not clued in to all this turtle,birds and bats stuff.
Just not my way of seeing things, especially rocks with junk. Different strokes I guess.
And loading up an aircraft with detection equipment and looking for minerals doesn't turn me on either, but I have done a couple of flights over the Sups with a camera handy, just in case. It's a good way to locate and follow older trails that are harder to recognize from ground level observation.
I wouldn't discount Julia's map on the basis that she sold a few copies off it though. After all, we all buy and use maps which someone was paid to make with profit in mind.
Books as well, written by folks who hope to make a living from their efforts. I'm sure some of them, if still with us, would be astounded by what their literary offerings bring in now.
Doubt that map was a death bed thing anyhow. If it was drawn up while the old man was in better shape, and still with a sharp memory, it could be the best map made for his cache or mine.

 

[sdcfia]

Probably lookin for a short cut to the finish line.

Isn't that why most folks are here?

 

[Hal Croves]

As I've said on a number of occasions Bill, I'm not clued in to all this turtle,birds and bats stuff.
Just not my way of seeing things, especially rocks with junk. Different strokes I guess.
And loading up an aircraft with detection equipment and looking for minerals doesn't turn me on either, but I have done a couple of flights over the Sups with a camera handy, just in case. It's a good way to locate and follow older trails that are harder to recognize from ground level observation.
I wouldn't discount Julia's map on the basis that she sold a few copies off it though. After all, we all buy and use maps which someone was paid to make with profit in mind.
Books as well, written by folks who hope to make a living from their efforts. I'm sure some of them, if still with us, would be astounded by what their literary offerings bring in now.
Doubt that map was a death bed thing anyhow. If it was drawn up while the old man was in better shape, and still with a sharp memory, it could be the best map made for his cache or mine.

somehiker,

It seems a case of do as I say, not as I do. On the Julia Thomas map(s) the trail begins at the southwestern end of the range, winding its way to and around Weavers, then north again towards the Salt. Not unlike the directions given to the Howlands by Ely & Bark.

"Sims Ely and James Bark gave them a map with the following instructions: "Trail leads up the first long draw leading into the Superstition Mountains, east from the west end on the south side. Then on across the mesa and down past a picacho (peak) on the left hand side and into a big canyon that leads to the Salt River, then up the right hand canyon and out onto a flat to a big pit. Note: Do not mistake the Canyon for the trail.”

Apache Junction and the Superstition Mountains
Jane Eppinga
​

Here is the path that Julia and the boys took:

“We walked around the northwest end of Superstition Mountain and packed all our supplies to the area of Weaver’s Needle.”

Herman Petrash to William Cage
Julia Thomas Schaffer By Tom Kollenborn
​

The Thomas map seems more like the alleged Mexican/Spanish maps of the Superstitions that would have been used by someone approaching from the south. Also, the end of it's trail is simply to vague to lead to anything specific. Perhaps that was her goal. A long, difficult journey thru rugged country to a location so vague nothing possibly could be found. And if the end of her trail was in fact the correct general location, there were/are easier ways to get there... even in her day.

 

[somehiker]

Isn't that why most folks are here?

Surely some....is that your motive ?
Others to spread the gospel I suppose, and the rest for the laughs.
I like being here and doing this for all of those reasons,

 

[nobodie]

I thought it was to give it all to charity.

 

[somehiker]

I thought it was to give it all to charity.

Depends on good lookin she is....

 

[somehiker]

somehiker,

It seems a case of do as I say, not as I do. On the Julia Thomas map(s) the trail begins at the southwestern end of the range, winding its way to and around Weavers, then north again towards the Salt. Not unlike the directions given to the Howlands by Ely & Bark.

"Sims Ely and James Bark gave them a map with the following instructions: "Trail leads up the first long draw leading into the Superstition Mountains, east from the west end on the south side. Then on across the mesa and down past a picacho (peak) on the left hand side and into a big canyon that leads to the Salt River, then up the right hand canyon and out onto a flat to a big pit. Note: Do not mistake the Canyon for the trail.”

Apache Junction and the Superstition Mountains
Jane Eppinga
​

Here is the path that Julia and the boys took:

“We walked around the northwest end of Superstition Mountain and packed all our supplies to the area of Weaver’s Needle.”

Herman Petrash to William Cage
Julia Thomas Schaffer By Tom Kollenborn
​

The Thomas map seems more like the alleged Mexican/Spanish maps of the Superstitions that would have been used by someone approaching from the south. Also, the end of it's trail is simply to vague to lead to anything specific. Perhaps that was her goal. A long, difficult journey thru rugged country to a location so vague nothing possibly could be found. And if the end of her trail was in fact the correct general location, there were/are easier ways to get there... even in her day.

"Do not mistake the canyon for the trail" sounds like good advice
To which I would add "do not assume the trail begins at the SW end of the main mountain."

 

[Hal Croves]

"Do not mistake the canyon for the trail" sounds like good advice
To which I would add "do not assume the trail begins at the SW end of the main mountain."

Word of the day: AN-yoo-riz-um

That could only mean one of two tings. That the trail end is actually the beginning (a map makers trick), which I don't think is possible here (the end "beginning" being way to vague) or, that the beginning is somewhere else, in this case I would say south, like Mexico.

Either way, Bark's map is way too similar to the Thomas map to be simple coincidence. If Julia was selling maps, she would have started selling them no sooner then Nov. of 91'. Bark's map is dated 92'. On top of that, they are almost identical. Almost, Bark's map is far more accurate (made by someone familiar with the range) and has two endings. Which came first is anyone's guess.

It sure has grown quite since we started discussing the Thomas map. Maps.

View attachment 1257154
​

 

[Azquester]

Hal, Be more specific.

What other site and photo?

If it was placed over a Map of the Supers which map?

30, 15, or 7.5?

In Free Masonry all maps lead to other maps.

I will assume you mean hates otherwise, I would be dropping my britches every time I rounded a corner.
Yes, you are absolutely correct.
Polarizing I think.

I wanted to get your thoughts on what was posted on the other site, specifically the ground map. If it is a 400% enlargement of the traced original stones, I calculate their combined size to be something like 7" x 9" or approximately the size of an iPad. Obviously, this is just a guess.
If this is correct, the originals would be small enough to travel with. Have you ever heard of someone making a map that leads to yet another map, especially one that isn't part of some fix structure? It just seems strange.

Stranger still is the fact that so much seems based on a relatively small photograph of the ground map which, must contain some recognizable feature unique to Superstitions. Only one landmark comes to mind.

 

[nobodie]

"Do not mistake the canyon for the trail." The trail is on a ridge, you walk on the ridge to get to the LDM.

 

[Hal Croves]

Hal, Be more specific.

What other site and photo?

If it was placed over a Map of the Supers which map?

30, 15, or 7.5?

In Free Masonry all maps lead to other maps.

Morning early bird.
??I am not allowed to mention the other site but, the one with the "revelations". See Old's post. There is a photograph of two men holding a map. The map has been blocked out to protect its information. From this tiny image, being described as the "ground map", the mystery of the stone maps has apparently been solved. It is a traced, 400% enlargement of the original stone maps and represents a location in the Superstitions. It was found using yet another map.

I have never heard of a map leading to another map (unless that other map was permanently fixed to some structure or landmark) and was asking if you have ever heard of such a thing. Could be true. Just unusual. There are other maps on that site that have been blurred (understandable) and were posted without explanation (not so understandable). But, they were posted after a member of that site asked to see the map that lead to the stones or, part of it anyway. So, it could be assumed that the blurred maps are the ones used to find the stone maps or, they could simply be the "other" maps those guys are working with.

The ambiguity keeps people interested.

 

[sdcfia]

Surely some....is that your motive ?
Others to spread the gospel I suppose, and the rest for the laughs.
I like being here and doing this for all of those reasons,

1) I'm a morning person who needs a daily diversion other than the news.
2) I monitor what folks are posting in case I'd like to contact any of them offline.

 

[Azquester]

Oh, Those Maps!

Yes I looked at them. I even tried to un-blur them with a program available on the web. After I heard Travis hoaxed the whole thing pretty much melted. If he was lying it seems that he fabricated not just the Priest but all the maps. Probably buried them himself a few years earlier. Travis was a Narcissist. He only wanted attention which he got. How one could make a documentary that had any meaning after proving he was simply not telling the truth is beyond me. The only story I see is: " The Stone Maps are a Fraud". At least the Priest Map has been admitted for being such. That certainly brings into question the Trail Maps authenticity.

I know this can be done as the Map of the Treasure of Tumacacori expands and lays out on a 7.5 minute quadrangle of the area lining up with landmarks at each corner and identifying certain area's contained in the forgery.

Some people just want it so bad the interject themselves into a legend and hope they become part of it's history. Sort of hitch hiking on old Walt's coat tail.

The site I've been working down here has a ground based map system left by whom ever created it. It blends in nature as looking natural. I found it by following of all things we were just discussing a turtle. The Turtle had another smaller Turtle on it's back. I've followed these map symbols just as everyone else on here has.

They are all part of the Mapping System.









[QUOTEMorning early bird.
??I am not allowed to mention the other site but, the one with the "revelations". See Old's post. There is a photograph of two men holding a map. The map has been blocked out to protect its information. From this tiny image, being described as the "ground map", the mystery of the stone maps has apparently been solved. It is a traced, 400% enlargement of the original stone maps and represents a location in the Superstitions. It was found using yet another map.

I have never heard of a map leading to another map (unless that other map was permanently fixed to some structure or landmark) and was asking if you have ever heard of such a thing. Could be true. Just unusual. There are other maps on that site that have been blurred (understandable) and were posted without explanation (not so understandable). But, they were posted after a member of that site asked to see the map that lead to the stones or, part of it anyway. So, it could be assumed that the blurred maps are the ones used to find the stone maps or, they could simply be the "other" maps those guys are working with.

The ambiguity keeps people interested. ][/QUOTE]

 

[gollum]

Oh, Those Maps!

Yes I looked at them. I even tried to un-blur them with a program available on the web. After I heard Travis hoaxed the whole thing pretty much melted. If he was lying it seems that he fabricated not just the Priest but all the maps. Probably buried them himself a few years earlier. Travis was a Narcissist. He only wanted attention which he got. How one could make a documentary that had any meaning after proving he was simply not telling the truth is beyond me. The only story I see is: " The Stone Maps are a Fraud". At least the Priest Map has been admitted for being such. That certainly brings into question the Trail Maps authenticity.

I know this can be done as the Map of the Treasure of Tumacacori expands and lays out on a 7.5 minute quadrangle of the area lining up with landmarks at each corner and identifying certain area's contained in the forgery.

Some people just want it so bad the interject themselves into a legend and hope they become part of it's history. Sort of hitch hiking on old Walt's coat tail.

The site I've been working down here has a ground based map system left by whom ever created it. It blends in nature as looking natural. I found it by following of all things we were just discussing a turtle. The Turtle had another smaller Turtle on it's back. I've followed these map symbols just as everyone else on here has.

They are all part of the Mapping System.









[QUOTEMorning early bird.
??I am not allowed to mention the other site but, the one with the "revelations". See Old's post. There is a photograph of two men holding a map. The map has been blocked out to protect its information. From this tiny image, being described as the "ground map", the mystery of the stone maps has apparently been solved. It is a traced, 400% enlargement of the original stone maps and represents a location in the Superstitions. It was found using yet another map.

I have never heard of a map leading to another map (unless that other map was permanently fixed to some structure or landmark) and was asking if you have ever heard of such a thing. Could be true. Just unusual. There are other maps on that site that have been blurred (understandable) and were posted without explanation (not so understandable). But, they were posted after a member of that site asked to see the map that lead to the stones or, part of it anyway. So, it could be assumed that the blurred maps are the ones used to find the stone maps or, they could simply be the "other" maps those guys are working with.

The ambiguity keeps people interested. ]

[/QUOTE]

Bill (and Everybody Else),

The Stone Maps were not hoaxed. They are not fakes. The story is emerging slowly but surely. A lot of stuff going on behind the scenes, but it will all come out before too awfully long. This is Ryan's Story, so it will all be released at his pace. If you don't know what is happening, guessing is a mistake. Just sit back and enjoy.

Mike

 

[Hal Croves]

Oh, Those Maps!

Yes I looked at them. I even tried to un-blur them with a program available on the web. After I heard Travis hoaxed the whole thing pretty much melted. If he was lying it seems that he fabricated not just the Priest but all the maps. Probably buried them himself a few years earlier. Travis was a Narcissist. He only wanted attention which he got. How one could make a documentary that had any meaning after proving he was simply not telling the truth is beyond me. The only story I see is: " The Stone Maps are a Fraud". At least the Priest Map has been admitted for being such. That certainly brings into question the Trail Maps authenticity.

I know this can be done as the Map of the Treasure of Tumacacori expands and lays out on a 7.5 minute quadrangle of the area lining up with landmarks at each corner and identifying certain area's contained in the forgery.

Some people just want it so bad the interject themselves into a legend and hope they become part of it's history. Sort of hitch hiking on old Walt's coat tail.

The site I've been working down here has a ground based map system left by whom ever created it. It blends in nature as looking natural. I found it by following of all things we were just discussing a turtle. The Turtle had another smaller Turtle on it's back. I've followed these map symbols just as everyone else on here has.

They are all part of the Mapping System.



[QUOTEMorning early bird.
??I am not allowed to mention the other site but, the one with the "revelations". See Old's post. There is a photograph of two men holding a map. The map has been blocked out to protect its information. From this tiny image, being described as the "ground map", the mystery of the stone maps has apparently been solved. It is a traced, 400% enlargement of the original stone maps and represents a location in the Superstitions. It was found using yet another map.

I have never heard of a map leading to another map (unless that other map was permanently fixed to some structure or landmark) and was asking if you have ever heard of such a thing. Could be true. Just unusual. There are other maps on that site that have been blurred (understandable) and were posted without explanation (not so understandable). But, they were posted after a member of that site asked to see the map that lead to the stones or, part of it anyway. So, it could be assumed that the blurred maps are the ones used to find the stone maps or, they could simply be the "other" maps those guys are working with.

The ambiguity keeps people interested. ]

[/QUOTE]

Bill,
I think that you are spot on. Egocentric as opposed to sociocentric seems to describe it best. Deception by omission might also apply here. The Definition of Lying and Deception (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy) . After thinking on it some, I am convinced that a loss of self-control (understanding) is at the heart of most deceptions. Many examples of this when dealing with the stone maps and the DLM legend. Posting blurred images with no explanation, no context, is a form of deception (even manipulation), not to mention unfortunate for those loyally following the story.

The question is, how do we combat deception? Well, the most effective means is explaining/exposing the deception, if possible with respect. Your attempt to UN-blur those images is an instinctive example of this and entirely appropriate in my opinion, even thou you were unsuccessful in your attempt. Not an easy thing to do if, it can be done. With that said, I will tell you that those blurred images are nothing more than versions of the Julia Thomas map.

View attachment 1257223
​

Sad when you stop and think about it.

The TURTLE was absolutely used as a treasure symbol or marker. Below is one decent example.

View attachment 1257224
​

 

[Azquester]

Bill (and Everybody Else),

The Stone Maps were not hoaxed. They are not fakes. The story is emerging slowly but surely. A lot of stuff going on behind the scenes, but it will all come out before too awfully long. This is Ryan's Story, so it will all be released at his pace. If you don't know what is happening, guessing is a mistake. Just sit back and enjoy.

Mike

Mike, I saw what Ryan posted. Is it not true Travis carved the Priest Stone? It doesn't matter if it was a copy of another earlier pig skin map or if he just came up with it out of the blue if he was intentionally deceiving everyone how could you trust anything at all that he presented? I think Ryan is doing a wonderful job of de-bunking Travis's lies and at the same time trying to make a case for his truths but how can you support his stories if he was laughing his ass off while screwing with so many people and claiming the Maps were dug up when Ryan has proved he faked stone Priest Maps by the Trunk Full?

Saying Travis was doing it to protect the real important information he had now that's a hard pill to swallow.

I'm waiting for the rest of Ryan's investigation to be complete but the info he's posted over there so far has me thinking we've all been duped by Travis and many of us have spent countless days decoding the forgery only to find out it was a joke on us.

I'm just glad the discoveries I've made did not mimic exactly the Priest Stone Map in it's entirety or it would have made it an even larger Pill for me to swallow.

 

[Uncle Josh]

d on dagger

The removable heart could be a warning showing the penalty. The knife, heart, peak and eye. I can't go into it except with a brother. While on that train of thought the D on the knife handle may stand for death. Sounds like bull but it is a thought. It's not like anyone has ever been found in the superstitions with body parts missing.

Wouldnt it be in spanish? M for Muerte?