Odyssey Marine Article...

Au_Dreamers said:
Ok Vox you say it could be?
By what determinations?

Either way it is a very bold statement to make.

I once found some ship's timbers and an onion bottle but I wasn't telling people I found what could be the Queen Anne's Revenge...

I would expect that an expert such as yourself wouldn't state a shipwreck could be the Mercedes without a bunch of positive information. You're an expert in this field so it's not like you found one artifact from the era. It would take alot of material to determine that the wreck could be the Mercedes other than a wreck from that time.
Click to expand...

Au,
I insist. If you have a list of cannons in the historical archives, you know the name of the wreck. The cannons is the easiest way to know the name of the wreck. But in the case of BS Odyssey did not care to know. Why?
 

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You know what's funny - not haha

Some claim treasure hunters to be greedy history destroying people, yet you wonder why they left cannon and took just the coins...

Vox why are the "powers that be" waiting until the OM case is over to make public the "Bahia II" information.
 

Au_Dreamers said:
You know what's funny - not haha

Some claim treasure hunters to be greedy history destroying people, yet you wonder why they left cannon and took just the coins...

Vox why are the "powers that be" waiting until the OM case is over to make public the "Bahia II" information.
Click to expand...
Your side stepping the questions Au :dontknow:
I tell you why they didn't bring up any cannon's, So no one could prove which ship they came off ::) You don't need to be Einstein to
work that out.
You make me laugh :laughing7:
Ossy
 

Ossy, I just want three things from this case:
.- To know the truth of what happened from the beginning to the last day.
.- Spain getting embarrassed enough to do what it has to be done with underwater spanish cultural heritage.
.- Get an answer from Vox when I ask him about a "situation".

Sadly, I have not hope of getting even one of them fulfilled.
 

MORE AND BEYOND OSSY said:
Au_Dreamers said:
You know what's funny - not haha

Some claim treasure hunters to be greedy history destroying people, yet you wonder why they left cannon and took just the coins...

Vox why are the "powers that be" waiting until the OM case is over to make public the "Bahia II" information.
Click to expand...
Your side stepping the questions Au :dontknow:
I tell you why they didn't bring up any cannon's, So no one could prove which ship they came off ::) You don't need to be Einstein to
work that out.
You make me laugh :laughing7:
Ossy
Click to expand...

I think it is Vox who is side stepping the IMPORTANT QUESTION...

ok it's a tough read as it doesn't translate real well but I would have to say this statement is completely false.

"In examining the photographs and videos we saw very clearly that it was the remains of a Spanish Navy frigate"

That statement is laughable....

What they are doing is working backwards from the end result that they desire and making the information fit.
 

Au_Dreamers said:
MORE AND BEYOND OSSY said:
Au_Dreamers said:
You know what's funny - not haha

Some claim treasure hunters to be greedy history destroying people, yet you wonder why they left cannon and took just the coins...

Vox why are the "powers that be" waiting until the OM case is over to make public the "Bahia II" information.
Click to expand...
Your side stepping the questions Au :dontknow:
I tell you why they didn't bring up any cannon's, So no one could prove which ship they came off ::) You don't need to be Einstein to
work that out.
You make me laugh :laughing7:
Ossy
Click to expand...

I think it is Vox who is side stepping the IMPORTANT QUESTION...

ok it's a tough read as it doesn't translate real well but I would have to say this statement is completely false.

"In examining the photographs and videos we saw very clearly that it was the remains of a Spanish Navy frigate"

That statement is laughable....

What they are doing is working backwards from the end result that they desire and making the information fit.
Click to expand...
Au If you look at all the evidence as Spain did, It was easy to identify the remains.
You have obsolete cannons on their manifest which odyssey photographed unknowingly, but knew it would be to risky to bring them up, as
they would easily identify the wreck.
Unless Vox is hiding something, the Spanish would have records off any other ship being lost around that time with that quantity of coins
and would have been noted in his new book...
I know odyssey spent a lot off time looking for any coin over the date of 1804, which would have killed off the Mercedes claim, But found none !!!!
I think Odyssey had bad luck and dealt with corrupt Spanish business people and a corrupt politician who had their own interest in mind
and not Spain.
Odyssey took the gamble and took the coins anyway, Hoping it would be to hard for Spain to challenge and prove ...
Once it hit the media, that's when question's starting be asked in Parliament ...
Au , we should ask Jeff K if he would post all the photos from the case, as they show parts from a ship wreck that exploded ...
Ossy
 

MABO,
What I find highly suspect is that they can "very clearly" identify it as a Spanish Navy Frigate from the photos and video.
I think it was just "Spain's lawyer" using his poetic license again...
Hence my statement that they Started with the Mercedes and work backwards with the evidence.


"Spain’s “expert” and the court below clearly overlooked that an identical cannon was found on a British shipwreck (Doc.179-2),
and such cannon were common to many countries of the period. (Doc.138-2:29.)"
 

For Spain to lay claim to the new world treasures they stole and lost to the seas would be no different then the German Government to lay claim to the gold the Nazis stole from the Jews.
It makes me want to puke in my regulator.
Over and Out, ZDD
 

Zodiacdiverdave said:
For Spain to lay claim to the new world treasures they stole and lost to the seas would be no different then the German Government to lay claim to the gold the Nazis stole from the Jews.
It makes me want to puke in my regulator.
Over and Out, ZDD
Click to expand...
:sleepy2: :sleepy2: :sleepy2: :sleepy2: We stole, you stole, he stole, :BangHead: :BangHead: wake up you have co2 poisoning.
I see you have stolen goods in your hands, Have you handed them into the police.
 

Au_Dreamers said:
MABO,
What I find highly suspect is that they can "very clearly" identify it as a Spanish Navy Frigate from the photos and video.
I think it was just "Spain's lawyer" using his poetic license again...
Hence my statement that they Started with the Mercedes and work backwards with the evidence.


"Spain’s “expert” and the court below clearly overlooked that an identical cannon was found on a British shipwreck (Doc.179-2),
and such cannon were common to many countries of the period. (Doc.138-2:29.)"
Click to expand...
Stolen from a Spanish ship, which was common in that era ...
Whats this MABO thing :dontknow: Not in the English dictionary ???
Ossy
 

:laughing9: my lazy way of an acronym for More and Beyond Ossy :laughing9:

In that era some of these ships were Dutch then British then French then Spanish or any combination of that, then wrecked, blown up, refitted, retired, broken up....

I have researched such ships that have changed from Nation to Nation to Nation to Nation and that is why it is often so hard to identify a ship's Nationality by a small sampling of its wreckage.

Let's say even if you find the English broad arrow marking it does not mean that Britain ever owned it. It could also mean that some other "entity" outfitted it with that object(s).

Like the Dolphin-handled cannon in the OM case.
 

Au_Dreamers said:
:laughing9: my lazy way of an acronym for More and Beyond Ossy :laughing9:

In that era some of these ships were Dutch then British then French then Spanish or any combination of that, then wrecked, blown up, refitted, retired, broken up....

I have researched such ships that have changed from Nation to Nation to Nation to Nation and that is why it is often so hard to identify a ship's Nationality by a small sampling of its wreckage.

Let's say even if you find the English broad arrow marking it does not mean that Britain ever owned it. It could also mean that some other "entity" outfitted it with that object(s).

Like the Dolphin-handled cannon in the OM case.
Click to expand...
Ok Au. Let say it's not the Mercedes... A ship with that amount of coins of that date, sailing towards Portugal and Spain ( Location Found )
would surely be documented as not having returned :dontknow: Commercial or Naval ...
As Mel Fisher found out, Spain kept great records .
MABO ;D
 

SWR said:
So... Odyssey Marine was found "guilty" stealing stuffs from Spain... and the Odyssey Marine stock holders continue to argue the case? :icon_scratch:
Click to expand...


No not at all. :nono:
Why don't you do a little reading and find out what the court actually said... :evil5:

I do not own any OMEX stock...

Jumping to those assumptions again, eh? :laughing7:
 

Au,
I took 30 years research in Spanish an Latin America archives and know something about naval history. If you find one or two cannons, you can have any doubt about the wreck, but if you get 15 cannons and have a list found in an exhaustive historical research, no doubt about the name of the wreck. For example, the capitana galleon "San Roque" which disappeared in 1605 there is a complete list of the 22 cannons. If you recover 10, it is clear that you found this galeon. In the case of Mercedes, no cannons transhipped to another vessel as spoils of war.
In addition, during the XV, XVI and XVII many cannons were hired by the owners. In Sevilla there is the Notarial Protocols Archive (with more than 23,000 bundles), where, with patience, you can find much documentation of these transactions in detail by the artillery contracts and marine insurance.
The truth is that Odyssey did not recover artillery because there was too obvious the wreck.
VV
 

Au_Dreamers said:
and with all that expert knowledge yet you believe you may have found the Mercedes at a different location....
Click to expand...

Au, I have no problem with Spain in US court for 17 tons of coins. I have nothing to prove. Odyssey have to explain why, against all rules of logic, no artillery recovered!
 

No way to get a direct answer to a direct question. The Great Houdini, the famous escapist, was a rookie in comparison with Vox.
 

trinidad said:
No way to get a direct answer to a direct question. The Great Houdini, the famous escapist, was a rookie in comparison with Vox.
Click to expand...

I am suspecting that you're taking advantage of your "forced" and comfortable anonymity!
 

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