Odyssey Marine Article...

Jeff K said:
MORE AND BEYOND OSSY said:
Jeff K said:
If anyone is interested, here's a link to Spain's appellate brief. It's only 130 pages. :coffee2:

www.treasurelore.com/charts/Spain_Appellate_Brief.pdf
Click to expand...
Just had a quick look, and will start reading. But I love the UNAUTHORIZED DISTURBANCE bit :read2: Smart man James Goold.
I was also upset my name is not on the list ;D
Ossy
Click to expand...

Unscrupulous is more like it. :tongue3:
Click to expand...
Unscrupulous you say ! Just like odyssey taking personal effects from the Mercedes.
" Other artifacts taken from the site Included copper and tin ingots, ships rigging, small arms, and PERSONAL EFFECTS, SUCH AS CUFF-LINKS AND SHOE BUCKLES "
Did they find any Gold teeth ? Jeff.
Some very important History in this brief.
Ossy
 

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Spanish Waters?
Like the secret FL session to extend the state territorial waters to steal the Atocha??

“commercial exploitation as a source of souvenirs and curios to sell to collectors.”

Spain will do the same if they obtain the cargo, after all it’s about the money.

So if the claimants from Peru are valid doesn't this negate the vessel being a Military vessel and one that was a typical combination of civilian merchant and Government making Spain's claim of Sovereign immunity invalid?

Also is there a ballast pile?
If there is no ballast pile then there is no shipwreck :re State of Florida DHR :tongue3:

That's about as far as I got. Goold should be a fiction writer...
 

Jeff K said:
If anyone is interested, here's a link to Spain's appellate brief. It's only 130 pages. :coffee2:

www.treasurelore.com/charts/Spain_Appellate_Brief.pdf
Click to expand...

This document of the Spanish police shows that in December 2005 was negotiating with Luis Valero-TUPET to recover the "Mercedes", inter alia, "to fill the museums. "
Retrieve the "Mercedes", a Spanish Navy ship, was an argument treaty and accepted by the Ministry of Culture of Spain with Luis Valero-TUPET. This was in December 2005.
It's another chance (of many we'll see) that in 2007, Odyssey "supposedly" recovered 17 tons of treasures of this "alleged" Frigate.
This official document attests that in December 2005 and was trading back the Mercedes, but coincidentally "Operation Bahía II" buried this project and others.
I'm ready to wait for the counterattack of Trinidad ;D ;D ;D :icon_sunny:
Cheers VV
 

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Geeze Jeff You H A D to make sure that I would spend an hour reading that Brief. It was so repetitious that one tends to skip over important parts.

There are several interesting points , I noticed that descendants claims no longer enter the case since they were paid off long ago and cannot be reopened.
*************
In August 1824, pursuant to the “paternal purposes of His Majesty,” a Royal
Order decreed indemnification by Spain’s Royal Treasury for those who suffered
losses from the Battle of Cape Saint Mary and other 1804-1805 naval
engagements. (Id. at 4, 7, 24-25.) The Royal Order applied to “all those interested
in the ships and property of any nature” captured or sunk by British action in 1804-
1805, including the Mercedes. (Id. at 24.)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
also --> “Where sovereign immunity is asserted, and the claims of the sovereign are not frivolous,
dismissal of the action must be order.
********
Interesting, since conversely the opposite also applies.

A fascinating bit of repetitious data which does have a few holes and tries to smother one with sheer volume. The guy 'is' a good lawyer.

I love the use of someone that is just as interested in milking the Mercedes, as Odyssey does.

Jeff I am interested in the final decision because of my three projects.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Jeff, please, translate the document that Vox brings to us. I almost cant believe it. Vox takes here the prove of a... I don't know how to name this... Basically is the evidence of an agreement beetween a men with the same name of an spanish "treasure hunter" and another one named as a high official from the ministry of Culture at that time (2005). They want to go after La Mercedes to fulfill museums with historic stuff. Gee! I'm sure that Vox is aware of the importance of this paper (and others that surely will appear). It could be the prove of an illegal agreement with a alleged high official from the spanish Ministry of Culture. Plus, the part erased by Vox is a curious one to be erased: the man named as a well know spanish salvor comments to a men named as Vox a circumstance that is an illegal situation in Spain. In fact, there is a big deal here in Spain about a regional president who is in an uncomfortable court situation just for being suspect of accepting three suits as a gift from a private contractor that has been favored by the regional Administration that this president rules. As said, a curious part to be erased from the document.
The alleged spanish treasure hunter involved in this treat is openly knew as, let say, a fantasy salvor, far away from the level of skill, experience, curricula, equipment and human team of OME in underwater recoveries. At the same time, they two recognise the presence of a site close to the Portugal's shore that it has to be La Mercedes (or at least in Portugal's territorial waters), far away from the deep site where OME found the "treasure". And this is a police record of a conversation that makes clear the easy relationship (professional and personal) beetween these two “guys”. Far away too from the Administration rules for the ways of contracting and arranging a deal between a private company and a public institution.
If I were the OME´s lawyer I would like to know a little bit more about these papers. If I would be J. Goold, I'd be preoccupied about them.
I don't understand why Vox brings this document here. From my point of view, it puts Spain in a bad position, as well as it's the same the man named Luis Angel, the same name of a friend of Vox. So,in extension, is not good for Vox either. I swear I don't understand whats going on here.
Excuse my cumbersome English but I have to be careful with the language. There are lawyers everywhere I don't want to be lawsuited.
 

It's not a text file, so I can't translate it. In any case, it has nothing to do with Odyssey Marine. I guess Claudio thinks if he throws enough crap on the wall, something will stick. ???
 

trinidad said:
Jeff, please, translate the document that Vox brings to us. I almost cant believe it. Vox takes here the prove of a... I don't know how to name this... Basically is the evidence of an agreement beetween a men with the same name of an spanish "treasure hunter" and another one named as a high official from the ministry of Culture at that time (2005). They want to go after La Mercedes to fulfill museums with historic stuff. Gee! I'm sure that Vox is aware of the importance of this paper (and others that surely will appear). It could be the prove of an illegal agreement with a alleged high official from the spanish Ministry of Culture. Plus, the part erased by Vox is a curious one to be erased: the man named as a well know spanish salvor comments to a men named as Vox a circumstance that is an illegal situation in Spain. In fact, there is a big deal here in Spain about a regional president who is in an uncomfortable court situation just for being suspect of accepting three suits as a gift from a private contractor that has been favored by the regional Administration that this president rules. As said, a curious part to be erased from the document.
The alleged spanish treasure hunter involved in this treat is openly knew as, let say, a fantasy salvor, far away from the level of skill, experience, curricula, equipment and human team of OME in underwater recoveries. At the same time, they two recognise the presence of a site close to the Portugal's shore that it has to be La Mercedes (or at least in Portugal's territorial waters), far away from the deep site where OME found the "treasure". And this is a police record of a conversation that makes clear the easy relationship (professional and personal) beetween these two “guys”. Far away too from the Administration rules for the ways of contracting and arranging a deal between a private company and a public institution.
If I were the OME´s lawyer I would like to know a little bit more about these papers. If I would be J. Goold, I'd be preoccupied about them.
I don't understand why Vox brings this document here. From my point of view, it puts Spain in a bad position, as well as it's the same the man named Luis Angel, the same name of a friend of Vox. So,in extension, is not good for Vox either. I swear I don't understand whats going on here.
Excuse my cumbersome English but I have to be careful with the language. There are lawyers everywhere I don't want to be lawsuited.
Click to expand...
Trinidad, breathe. This is a documents from the scam "Bahia II ". Fortunately it is written by an official source who is the police authority, group of cultural heritage. There are more documents. When the time comes to know them. Honestly and personally, I do not care about his content, but it is possible that others will worry.
Cheers VV
 

SWR said:
Jeff K said:
It's not a text file, so I can't translate it. In any case, it has nothing to do with Odyssey Marine. I guess Claudio thinks if he throws enough crap on the wall, something will stick. ???
Click to expand...

Alternatively...that would be about the same as posting articles about how Odyssey or the legal staff at Odyssey feels WikiLeaks somehow released damaging evidence that might help the Courts reverse their decision....and not posting anything actually showing WikiLeaks released damaging evidence showing the US and Spain to be out of protocol.


Just saying.... :wink:
Click to expand...

Someone in Homeland Security offered to help Spain with their case against Odyssey if they returned the painting. I suppose that means nothing to someone that has something against Odyssey.

Just saying... :wink:
 

Jeff, you cant imagine how this document (and others in Vox´s hands) has to do with OME and its legal controversies with Spain (or viceversa). This single paper explain itself more that thousands of words on media. And answer a question I made some post back: who poisoned the relationship OME-Spain Gov., and who paid for the poison. Finally, become clear that there are not only archaeological or underwater heritage conservation reasons behind the "spanish" opposition to the activities of OME around La Mercedes or the Sussex. It looks like it's been just a commercial plot (this is a real one) beetween a private contractor and a high official from a ministry with "big gifts" along its arrangement to get for free and not efforts on it what others got paying for it, researching, surveying, expending time and money in big doses. And this plot did count on two or three "journalists" and a silver haired sail rider to defame OME and put the "public opinion" against the "north-american pirate". I have to say that they've done a good job. But as somebody said: you cant lie everybody all the time. And I add: Fake patriotism use to be a common alibi for crooks.
 

trinidad said:
Jeff, you cant imagine how this document (and others in Vox´s hands) has to do with OME and its legal controversies with Spain (or viceversa). This single paper explain itself more that thousands of words on media. And answer a question I made some post back: who poisoned the relationship OME-Spain Gov., and who paid for the poison. Finally, become clear that there are not only archaeological or underwater heritage conservation reasons behind the "spanish" opposition to the activities of OME around La Mercedes or the Sussex. It looks like it's been just a commercial plot (this is a real one) beetween a private contractor and a high official from a ministry with "big gifts" along its arrangement to get for free and not efforts on it what others got paying for it, researching, surveying, expending time and money in big doses. And this plot did count on two or three "journalists" and a silver haired sail rider to defame OME and put the "public opinion" against the "north-american pirate". I have to say that they've done a good job. But as somebody said: you cant lie everybody all the time. And I add: Fake patriotism use to be a common alibi for crooks.
Click to expand...

Trini, who is Jeff?? Your partner!
 

"That is simply an opinion, and has not been validated" :thumbsup:

The State Dept. refused to give Spain the Customs documents not once, but twice.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/121337

"The Ambassador stressed the USG's interest in direct discussions between the Spanish government and Claude Cassirer, the AmCit claimant of a painting by Camille Pisarro ("Rue St. Honore") in the Thyssen Museum. The Ambassador noted also that while the Odyssey and Cassirer claim were on separate legal tracks, it was in both governments' interest to avail themselves of whatever margin for manuever they had, consistent with their legal obligations, to resolve both matters in a way that favored the bilateral relationship. The minister listened carefully to the Ambassador's message, but he put the accent on the separateness of the issues."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/160421
 

No Vox, Jeff is not my partner. He's my husband :laughing7:. Anyway, I see you Vox a little suspicious. I've just ask Jeff for a translation and answered a comment from him. Not too much for a couple. And relax, Vox, you better don't feel surrended.
 

SWR said:
Jeff K said:
"That is simply an opinion, and has not been validated" :thumbsup:

The State Dept. refused to give Spain the Customs documents not once, but twice.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/121337

"The Ambassador stressed the USG's interest in direct discussions between the Spanish government and Claude Cassirer, the AmCit claimant of a painting by Camille Pisarro ("Rue St. Honore") in the Thyssen Museum. The Ambassador noted also that while the Odyssey and Cassirer claim were on separate legal tracks, it was in both governments' interest to avail themselves of whatever margin for manuever they had, consistent with their legal obligations, to resolve both matters in a way that favored the bilateral relationship. The minister listened carefully to the Ambassador's message, but he put the accent on the separateness of the issues."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/160421
Click to expand...

Jeff....the newspaper editorial does not validate your claim:

Jeff K said:
Someone in Homeland Security offered to help Spain with their case against Odyssey if they returned the painting. I suppose that means nothing to someone that has something against Odyssey.

Just saying... :wink:
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I don't need to validate it. Anybody can see they offered to help Spain. If you cannot, then you have a reading disorder.
 

JEFF, swr said for you to post 'valid' data. I agree with you, almost nothing 'regarding' a case is valid prior to a judicial acceptance and decision, until then it is essentially 'hearsay', which must be proven in court. so swr is off base.

Don Jose de La Mancha
 

Does he sell used cars as well?
HMS Sussex on hold due to Spanish Interference, What Proof did they find Jeff? Good excuse to Look for more Spanish wrecks.
He said " Spain Illegally Interfered " :laughing7: :laughing7: :laughing7: LOL
We hope to go back, Better take a seat, you will be waiting for a long time !
They still have hope for HMS Victory, they do like going after Sovereign Vessels.
Ossy
 

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